In the latest patch, removing ranks from gears was the worst thing the team did. You're giving priority for those who want to try PvP (and might stop within a week or two) more than those of us who farmed for these gears.
There's literally no point of being rank 50 anymore except for the skills (not saying they're not important, but there should be so much more for a maxed rank)
The PvP gears were a big reward we worked for. Just the same way raid gears looked like something players worked hard to get.
PvP now is much less interesting for me. You might have did this for more players to join but you're losing the hardcore PvPers.
Makes me sadQuote:
Originally Posted by Synestra
Rank Removed, PvP is Less Interesting Now
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02-24-2016, 03:54 PMLordHadiRank Removed, PvP is Less Interesting Now
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02-24-2016, 04:08 PMnickxNot necessarily disagreeing with your gear point, however, I think most true hardcore PvPers aren't interested as much in the rank-less gear decision and will not be leaving PvP. If anything, the real hardcore PvPers are more about the competition and are impatiently waiting for the Feast.Quote:
Originally Posted by LordHadi
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02-24-2016, 05:44 PMFebrusThis is true, however you're not seeing competition the same way hardcore PvP'ers do. The removal of ranks is actually a bad sign for the future competition in PvP.Quote:
Originally Posted by nickx
A lot of hardcore PvP'ers advocate for the re-establishment of Morale in PvP (at the very least in the upcoming ranked game modes) to encourage more competition. Further, given that SE has openly been pushing an E-sports agenda with Feast, raked rewards for gear, customization, and stat/skill allocation would make a HUGE difference in pre-made competitive teams, especially in tournaments (which SE has said, in an interview, that they are planning as a future goal if Feast is successful). All of these little things seems small, but real competitors would actually go the extra mile to make sure they are optimizing their load-outs.
The development of Feast, the way the game mode is set up, and the establishment of leagues and seasonal rankings, are a big leap forward in showing the community that they are taking a vested interest in making a viable, competitive, PvP environment. Removing ranks from PvP, on the other hand, is a huge leap backwards, and makes its seem like SE doesn't actually care about fostering a competitive PvP following, because there is nothing competitive about watering down the playing field and taking away long term goals from the players. -
02-24-2016, 08:31 PMSpawnie
perhaps they want people to start as close as possible gear wise atleast for beginning of the feast.. how about instead of being all doom n gloom actually wait to see whats released/planned for the future b4 complaining perhaps??
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02-25-2016, 07:57 AMFebrusWe already do know where SE is going with this. They have openly told us what they are doing, in detail.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spawnie
Feast is going to be implemented in 2 weeks. Ranked and un-ranked modes were announced. Pre-season and season start and finish dates have been announced. Hot fixes are to follow the pre-season. When the actual season starts, league rankings will be implemented. Rankings reset every official season. SE's announced that their stretch goal is to implement a "spectator mode" with the intention of preparing for official tournaments (assuming the community shows an adequate interest). This is all very E-Sports, and the competition is being geared up to be very strong, especially because the Diamond league gives out top player rewards (including gear that will be unavailable to lower ranked players). These are all things that SE has publicly announced in various live streams, live letters, and interviews (some of them straight from Yoshi-P's mouth).
The fact that we know all this means that not all of this is "doom and gloom." Diamond ranked exclusive gear is definitely a plus, and official tournaments would be HUGE. They've also said they're looking into a dueling system, which we've been asking for, for a very long time now. All in all, the future of PvP in FFXIV is actually looking pretty bright for a change (it only took us two years of complaining to get some positive results). However, that doesn't mean that rank removal for gear, the continued disregard for Morale, or the giant kick in the nuts they just gave to the dedicated PvP'ers who actually grinded for those ranks, are not bad things. By and large, they are.
Given that they have been pushing for a more competitive PvP environment with the implementation of Feast, it is kind of weird that they took the ranks out. It makes sense to provide at least some unraked gear to entice the casual players into the mode, but to completely remove rank restrictions entirely is asinine. It just gives players less reason to actually rank up, which makes them less competitive from a technical (Ap points) and practical standpoint. It doesn't seem very compatible with their announced agenda. Fortunately, the Diamond rank gear should make up for this and give seasoned PvP'ers something to actively strive for. -
02-25-2016, 09:04 AMVictoria_Silverdawn
Is it a really big deal removing the rank lock on the gear? you still need higher ranks for skills... and comparing PvP to raids? Wasnt everyone crying because the gear is useless and we dont need it ... blah blah blah... You do realise its because of all you "seasoned PvP" people that SE removed the morale... you guys would team up in full morale sets and destroy any new people who joined pvp... that drove more people away from it...
now because everyone can have it, its the end of PvP? You know people still have to do PvP for the seals to get the gear... which means you rank up... which means you get better PvP skills... They never removed the purpose of ranking, they just evened the playing field gear wise...
Try giving it a couple weeks before looking at it as if someone just peed in your coffee cup, then forced you to drink it. we only had 3.2 for 1 day... -
02-25-2016, 09:12 AMMutemuttI would trade having all the skill points available from the start to keep ranks on the gear to be quite honest. I mean the points are just so... whatever really. I find much more appeal working towards new gear rather than getting a few more points to allocate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Victoria_Silverdawn
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02-25-2016, 03:38 PMLordHadiQuote:
Originally Posted by Victoria_Silverdawn
http://i65.tinypic.com/2ikurle.jpg
Evened playing field gear wise? LOL. Items are synched FYI
And please don't make it sound like it take ages to collect "Wolf Marks"
^ ThisQuote:
Originally Posted by Mutemutt
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02-25-2016, 03:46 PMAtoli
Is there no rank on the new 205 pvp gear? o.O
I thought they only removed it for the old one..? -
02-25-2016, 03:52 PMLordHadiNo lol, not even on the 205 oneQuote:
Originally Posted by Atoli
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02-25-2016, 04:11 PMP4X0R10N
I think it's fine for those who play Feast only, since like someone else said, the real grind is gonna be for the top of the class rewards. But for the casuals, like me, who are going to play seal rock more than Feast (probably 70 percent seal rock 30 percent Feast), removing rank restrictions from pvp gear does take away the carrot a bit you know? I don't expect to really be able to achieve those rewards in Feast because I don't have enough time to really dedicate to it - and the time I do have, I'd divide it among the many different parts of FFXIV (pve, exploration, msq, frontlines, leveling new classes, etc.).
But we don't know what it's going to be like yet.. so whoknows? Just another week and a half and we'll see... -
02-25-2016, 04:19 PMAtoliOh wow, that actually DOES suck :0Quote:
Originally Posted by LordHadi
And I'm saying that as someone who is not yet of a high enough rank.
The gear was the reason I kept leveling my PvP rank. I'll admit I was happy to finally be able to wear the old gear, but assumed my reason for leveling wasn't gone since the 205 gear is very nice too.
I should be happy I can instantly wear it, but honestly, it just feels as if SE took a long-term goal from me. -
02-25-2016, 05:32 PMFebrusI'm assuming you mean "The Fold" (previously known as "Wolves Den") for each time you say "Feast" here, since Feast is not actually out yet, and no one has played it (and just Fyi, there will be a casual version of Feast, 8v8, if ranked matches are not your thing).Quote:
Originally Posted by P4X0R10N
Regardless, yes. You make a fair point. Personally, I find it amazing that most of the people who are cheering for this absurd change seem to think that only downside was to the hardcore PvP'ers when, in fact, the biggest downside should be being felt by the casuals who lost their incentive to play and rank up. Progression is a big part of what keeps players hooked on the game. I mean, imagine if they removed levels from the PvE portion of the game and made everything uniform. Imagine if the story simply stopped at the premise and didn't progress at all with each patch. What would be the point? PvP never really had a lot of progression to begin with (arguably, one of the reasons the original WD did not take off, and why Frontlines is stagnant and stuck in it's own lore). This change basically removed any sense of progression that was left. -
02-25-2016, 05:39 PMFebrusThe diamond league gear is still exclusive. It's locked behind your seasonal ranking. Unfortunately, it's not really a "long term goal," as your rank resets with each new season. You have a limited time to get it, and if you don't you have to start over next season...Quote:
Originally Posted by Atoli
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02-25-2016, 09:45 PMAshenStarThe most hardcore will always need a big goal to struggle for. Best gear, best rating, etc. You are confusing with casual pvper's who just play for fun. They will not be spending 10 hours per day PvPing. They will play maybe once or a couple times from time to time and they will not care about gear, about ranks etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by nickx
I've played a lot of MMOs and can tell for sure - PvP without incentive will die. -
02-25-2016, 10:54 PMKaeoni
There are no long term goals in PvP and there never were.
Diamond exclusivity rewards are one of the best possible ways to keep players PvPing who need incentive incentivized.
Rewards will be updated every season I'd assume to keep people chasing Diamond rank for that new piece of gear.
Low hanging fruit such as the 205 gear in patch 3.2 is a great way to motivate people such as myself to play PvP who normally wouldn't be planning to participate and that's the entire point of them doing it this way.
With all due respect to the time people have currently put into pvp thus far, get over yourselves.
There is nothing wrong with the old system. But that's exactly what it is. OLD. There are a lot of new people or people such as myself who looked at pvp and said to themselves "Wish i could wear that" and the thought never goes anywhere, we don't even try. I am elbow deep in Crafting, helping my FC and PvE content, Explain to me why i should give a fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck about getting rank whatever so I can look like a Swan? It's still not being handed to me right? The gear that is? So you're saying It's still gated? Ok? What's the problem again?
An influx to the pvp community isn't a bad thing, and if you think it is your either dumb or naive. Because that is EXACTLY what this is intended to do. Now think for a second. Why are they trying to get more people to play PvP? It's not a hard question to answer. The answer is, only a fraction of the people playing this game participate regularly in PvP. Squeenix is hoping to draw more players into playing their game or into playing their game for longer. Why? More/longer monthly subs. The fact FFXIV has PvP is something to consider for people playing and potential players. So it is an interest worth exploring.
I don't know a single person on my server who enjoys participating in Pvp and the last time I que'd up it took 30+ minutes. So what does that say to you? It doesn't exactly scream "vibrant and healthy" facet of the game.
However....
I'm motivated to participate due to SE's immovable attitude to see PvP through to the end. I don't know if I'll enjoy myself, I'm hoping I do, I really do because I normally love pvp. But in case I don't I didn't waste my time. If anything it was still a boost to the community as well. What needs to happen is, they need to hook me while i'm giving it a chance.
Fact of the matter is, if enough people aren't playing Pvp. Why continue to spend resources on it when you could be bolstering PvE? To make a fraction of the community happy? They'd just set up some leaderboard type shit and let the lack of interest in pvp take care of itself.
So keep complaining, hell, add more ranks to your Pvp, make it max rank 200 by 2017. Keep gating rewards. Lets see how far that gets you because new players and players who might be interested in participating will not want to cross that threshold.
I exclusively PvP'd in WoW, I used to rock like... 5 Twinks back in lich king? So excuse me when I back people saying It's more about the competition than your stupid gated gear. It's about wrecking plebs and making grown ass men weep like babies. About the rewards? Oh please, The rage... The tangible rage you feel as the same player tries repeatedly to kill you by seeking you out where you last eviscerated them and making them pay the price over and over. That's what it's about, it's quite literally all about the blood of your enemies and the satisfaction you feel in relentlessly dominating them completely in skill and tactics. I'm just able to admit it. -
02-25-2016, 11:14 PMAshenStar
If they wanted to reset the ranking system, they should have just implemented a new one, not just remove the existing. At first, there will be many new players who "never pvped because of gear difference", but if those players didn't want to pvp before, they will soon lose all the interest in pvping. As for hardcore players they will lose it even sooner, considering that this game totally lacks different kinds of pvp minigames/battlegrounds/whatever. The Feast will be enough to keep interest maybe for a month and then ppl will just stop pvping. The queues will be so long that even most persistent ones will soon give it up.
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02-26-2016, 01:14 PMSynestraOnly goal in PvP is to do PvP while outplaying your opponents, i could really care less if SE removed all gears and ranks from PvP i would still do it. Topics like these makes me wonder how many peoples here actually play PvP because they like it and not just for carrots?Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaeoni
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02-26-2016, 01:15 PMPibzYes, because what true hardcore pvpers care about is rank restriction on glamour gear .Quote:
Originally Posted by LordHadi
Totally legit
No the most hardcore struggle to be the best (in any given game), the glamor princesses struggle for gearQuote:
Originally Posted by AshenStar
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02-26-2016, 03:44 PMAshenStarBecause there is a lack of glamour gear outside of pvp ranking? Seriously?Quote:
Originally Posted by Pibz
In any case in PVP we need everyone: hardcore players, casual players, glamour princesses and even forum warriors. More players - more games - more fun. -
02-27-2016, 03:19 AMDyvid
Well considering I was queue for over 30 minutes last night, PvP is stagnate. If this gets new players to pvp I'm all for it.
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02-27-2016, 04:32 AMRenaultYeah Nikoza, you're not seeing competition like the "hardcore PVPers." Maybe you should start thinking like the hardcore players, like the OP.Quote:
Originally Posted by Februs
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02-27-2016, 06:38 AMAshenStarWhy don't you play then moba or fps games? Majority of players feel it fun when they have a goal to achieve.Quote:
Originally Posted by Synestra
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02-27-2016, 06:46 AMKurogaeaI really don't think you know how PvPers actually think as a whole. We're impatiently waiting for the feast because we have nothing to work towards and PvP is rendered a minigame now, almost on par with the Gold Saucer at this point. We don't judge our competitiveness through fighting, but experience, and the best way we had to show that was our ranks. The gear restricted items we're a goal we could look forward to to show how far we've gotten after fighting each other for 2 years. Giving PvP rankless gear will only allow players who aren't inerested in PvP a chance to get the gear. PvPers will stay PvPers, SE changed nothing but took away a chunk of their devoted PvP players proof of their struggles to achieve what they had.Quote:
Originally Posted by nickx
I'll give an example of how bad this is, and yes, its the same. Lets say I increased the level cap in the game to 70 and made it 2x harder than it was to level than 50-60. Then I'd allow the players to choose their rewards that could be a costume from any FF series. a month later after grinding for so long, many players achieved lvl 70 and gotten the gear of their choosing for 10k. SE updates the game and now all that gear can be achieved at lvl 1 for 10k as well. <--- thats what happened. -
02-27-2016, 07:41 AMnickxI understand that, but I believe using ranks to judge experience is no longer the main focus of PvP, it was up until patch 3.2. SE is taking PvP to a more serious level now with rating and leaderboards, and they want as much participation in this as possible, thus they removed the rank restriction on gear (as mentioned by Zhexos here). For players who have been devoted this long in PvP, they'll now have a chance to use this experience they've gotten for 2 years and finally be able to use it in a competitive setting.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurogaea
In my opinion, increasing ranks every patch or two and having new gear to grind for is not really a good direction to take PvP, as participation still remains fairly low overall. I think SE knows this and wants to take PvP in a different direction now, a direction that will allow both new and veteran players participate, with hopes of increasing the PvP playerbase. -
02-27-2016, 08:02 AMnickxThe 250 premade wolves' den matches I do weekly don't qualify me as hardcore. :(Quote:
Originally Posted by Renault
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02-27-2016, 11:19 AMRenaultI have to disagree. The old system rewarded nothing but dedication. With the new system, those rewards are still there in the form of titles and a mount for "The Feast". 1000 wins in each role for a unique title, and 200 wins in general for a mount. There's your reward. To me, the reward for participation means nothing, I much prefer to strive for the mysterious "Diamond gear" that players who reach diamond ranking will supposedly receive after Season 1.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurogaea
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02-27-2016, 01:55 PMKurogaeaYou do know their going to announce the gear when they come up with it right? If you insist on calling it dedication than rewards, aren't you dedicating yourself to 1000 wins for a mount and a title that would provide you with nothing but glamour, instead of an actual piece of gear that will make you even stronger to show how experienced you've become through numerous battles? And just so you know, participating offers more of a reward than you think (may be a bit lazy, but its a reward), and SE is basically saying thats ok by allowing those who are new to pvp to just lose over and over and over till they have enough points to buy there glamour and never participate in PvP again. Ranks is what kept that from happening. :/Quote:
Originally Posted by Renault
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02-27-2016, 02:42 PMRenaultThat's no different. There are tons of terrible rank 50 PVP'ers that afk'd their way to rank 50. Also, your reasoning of the gear showing how you're stronger is null and void, as gear is synched in PVP. What I mean by "rewards for participation" is that there is no skill wall to lock you out of rewards. You just have to show up. That's true for the old system and the new. The only difference is that now you only need to grind the 50k + wolf marks, instead of a new PVP'er ALSO having to grind for literal months/years to hit max rank.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurogaea
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02-27-2016, 04:30 PMKurogaeaAnd all that's ok with you?Quote:
Originally Posted by Renault
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02-27-2016, 04:50 PMSynestra
Seeing all these gear and rank topics on forums i fear that Feast might not get so popular, it seems theres only handfull of players that are liking this new pvp "meta" where you simply just cant grind your way to the top. GL to those that are going to go for Diamond, be sure to record and upload some footage if possible.
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02-27-2016, 05:35 PMRenaultYeah, because the gear was never prestigious to begin with in my own, personal opinion. It had the same prestige as the relic weapon, which again was just a weapon that took no skill to obtain. All you have to do is mindlessly press the queue button and participate. I would rather have locked rewards behind feats of skill, such as what they're going to be doing with the Diamond tier rewards.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurogaea
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02-27-2016, 06:16 PMKaeoni^ This 100%Quote:
Originally Posted by Renault
Being rank 50 and having that gear didn't/doesn't mean you're amazing at PvP. It just meant you had the time to throw at it. And I do respect that time people put in for these things. However it's time to give it the Zodiac treatment, It's a dead format. Rank still means something and is something everyone wants to cap out for enhanced abilities. SE has and is putting effort into this Feast thing. Diamond rewards will be an even better way to prove your metal than what you currently had. Especially if those rewards are ephemeral for that season. I predict some will be.
If all you "Hardcores" quit because of this change I guess it just means you were all just "glamour princesses" in disguise anyways and it's time the real men and women took it from here.
It's difficult when changes like this happen, i get it, people are getting fast tracked (sort of) and it might seem unfair. But understand it's coming from a place which should overall benefit the community and you personally in the end. -
02-27-2016, 08:32 PMRedfame
Removed ranks? That is a fail.
205 pvp gear have the same skin like 220 pve? Big fail.
Why we get moral gear but nothing to use it, Maybe Se check logs, no one play 4vs4 WD unsynced.
I think PvP gear should be ranked, hold own skin and get the same ilvl like the pve gear for stones.
Noob pve players bring us only loses or stay afk at nods.... -
02-28-2016, 01:16 AMMixZI'll be recording and doing highlight reports for my ventures in the Feast. I can't wait to climb the ladder with everyone that is going after Diamond.Quote:
Originally Posted by Synestra
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02-28-2016, 10:27 PMSangheliosI think you cant say it this way, because this happens to all of the three grand companies. So nobody really has an disadvantage of having newbies in their group in frontlines.Quote:
Originally Posted by Redfame
Anyway, i do agree with op and would like to have ranks on latest gear back. -
02-29-2016, 04:25 AMYapple
I agree with op too. My first moment of 3.2 was to go see if the DRK sword in the preview was from PVP. My guess was that it as to be related to The feast and i was ready to grind for it. Then bought it and equip it. I'm still not sure what to feel from this.
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03-01-2016, 01:13 AMkensatsu
I think it's good, the pvp gear have to work on the pvp since the beggining
And yes, the rank restriction in the instance is removed, finaly !.
We can have procc fast. You aren't all tired to make 30 minutes q to just playing ?
Also pvp gear is not merely glamour, it don't make any sense. PVP stuff is suposed to be BIS in pvp instance, like it should be in feast and make the stuff hard to farmwill just ruin it, like it was the case with the wolfden, player stated to be almost all time killed by geared players, this excuse can't be used anymore, everyone can farm the stuff.
I don't think players is doing pvp only to have full rank, and not doing any pvp anymore, there is pvp players who love pvp and still pvp and other just farm stuff and go away, you can't fight this, just play pvp with pvp players, that's all.
Off course maybe Squarenix should give some reward for doing a lot of pvp instance, something only pvp player can get and think he have something special, i think get ranked high in feast will give reward to the players.
Otherwise i don't think it's a fail.