Are there more tanks playing now?

Being a few hours in, is it safe to assume that there are more tanks playing now? Just trying to gather information to see if I'll have some queue competition now.

I think it's more the other way round. ;)

Maybe i'll stop playing tank with this shitty nerf and switch to healer or monk.

Losing DPS, having agro issues and what not. I don't think it made many tanks happy.

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Originally Posted by Arg0n

I think it's more the other way round. ;)

Maybe i'll stop playing tank with this shitty nerf and switch to healer or monk.

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The Tank exodus has begun. (Thankfully I switched to Monk before the patch when I saw the PVP DPS nerf alongside the already reduced damage in PVE. DRK has like zero anything in PVP utility wise compared to PLD/War)

They probably.. Should have done things a liiittle bit different.

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Originally Posted by Cynric

The Tank exodus has begun. (Thankfully I switched to Monk before the patch when I saw the PVP DPS nerf alongside the already reduced damage in PVE. DRK has like zero anything in PVP utility wise compared to PLD/War)

They probably.. Should have done things a liiittle bit different.

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Dunno about that. It was really close but I decided to play the paladin this season instead of my WHM.

The dps tanks may stop playing now, mainly as a form of protest, but I am sure these will get replaced by the players who disliked the dps tank meta.

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Originally Posted by Archaell

Dunno about that. It was really close but I decided to play the paladin this season instead of my WHM.

The dps tanks may stop playing now, mainly as a form of protest, but I am sure these will get replaced by the players who disliked the dps tank meta.

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I would have been fine with the DPS nerf happening in PVE, but with a second extra nerf happening in PVP , Dark Knight just won't be contributing the same to my enjoyment , and Monk and DRK have similar CC/utility, with DRK having more defense /health.

My reason is strictly PVP. Though I am interested to see how things will be in PVE going forward, but I'd personally rather only play one main job in both content at a given time.

Seriously considering ditching my tank. Went through a long, slow wipe that I could've very easily recovered from if my life leeching was more than 1.5k... This DPS nerf blows chunks.

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Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

Seriously considering ditching my tank. Went through a long, slow wipe that I could've very easily recovered from if my life leeching was more than 1.5k... This DPS nerf blows chunks.

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Guess it'll now be everyone else's job to pick up the slack going forward considering tanks won't be able to carry as well anymore.

Good luck healers its all on you now! =o

I agree, screw this nerf.Now im having single target threat issues. EXODUS !

Did you guys play tank just so you could do damage?

Sorry, but I can't really relate to that. I play this class to protect folks and take the hits. If you're upset about the nerf, then maybe you belonged in a DPS role all along. Nothing wrong with that, but being upset that our DPS is going down seems rather silly.

We still do plenty of damage, we just don't do damage that's comparable to a DPS. And I'm okay with that.

it was always fun to outDMG a noob DPS and actually contribute to the PT Sometimes even carrying it.
Will i stop playing PLD?(Other tank classes) Nope, am i annoyed? yep.

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Originally Posted by MisterBoogaloo

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My issue is less with the DPS nerf and more the fact that it negatively impacted my tanking. I never had a problem swapping to defiance for some self heals before, and could easily self heal for 2.4k+ with IB and 7k+ with Equilibrium.

Now I'm lucky if I can manage a 1.5k self heal through IB. My biggest issue is the lack of self healing, which is the main reason I liked Warrior.

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Originally Posted by MisterBoogaloo

Did you guys play tank just so you could do damage?

Sorry, but I can't really relate to that. I play this class to protect folks and take the hits. If you're upset about the nerf, then maybe you belonged in a DPS role all along. Nothing wrong with that, but being upset that our DPS is going down seems rather silly.

We still do plenty of damage, we just don't do damage that's comparable to a DPS. And I'm okay with that.

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I think its about more than just DPS going down for some people.

Mechanically tank is going to be a bit less fun since you'll have to sit in tank stance a lot going off what others are saying. How much of this enmity issue that people are talking about is true? I have no idea. But I'm sure there's more than just "tank dps nerfed time to /quit" going on.

Am I sad my crit Fell Cleaves don't hit as hard? Yes, absolutely. But my job first and foremost is to hold hate and I don't have any issues with that, still.

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Originally Posted by Cynric

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I've always played as a full vit tank and I've never had issues with enmity generation. I frequently run darkside without grit as DRK (when appropriate, at least) without a full strength build and my enmity generation has never been a huge problem. I'm not sure why folks are running into issues now, but tanking has actually gotten a whole lot easier for me.

Strength was a crutch, it was never really necessary for holding aggro. Tank stance isn't supposed to be a fetter around your neck. It's a tool. You might not be able to use deliverance as much as you could before, but you weren't really supposed to be able to do that in the first place.

We were a little OP for a bit there, now we're balanced with the other roles again. Again, I'm fine with that.

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Originally Posted by MisterBoogaloo

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Edit: Saw you editted. Never mind the first part then xD

I don't really know why people are having enmity issues either. But I'm not home myself to see it either. I'm sure it's not as bad as people are making it out to be though.

I will agree though. Tanks were OP before. A tank could literally carry a run even with very bad players before, and now that wont be a thing as much anymore.

The question of the thread however was. Are there more tanks now? The answer is going to be definitely there will be less. Regardless of the reasons others chose to tank , queue times will still suffer a bit due to the change and tanking will probably be less attractive to newer players as well.

That last bit is just theory though. It's a fact there will be less tanks now.

Kinda makes me wonder if the people here didnt even read the patch notes correctly, or at all. Damage got nerfed? I see, tanking stances got buffed in enmity? I see. Me: "Me thinks that my stance will help with hate!" I'm pretty sure the people complaining with enmity issues didnt even have their tank stance up when pulling or grabbing mobs.

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Originally Posted by WolfKid

Kinda makes me wonder if the people here didnt even read the patch notes correctly, or at all. Damage got nerfed? I see, tanking stances got buffed in enmity? I see. Me: "Me thinks that my stance will help with hate!" I'm pretty sure the people complaining with enmity issues didnt even have their tank stance up when pulling or grabbing mobs.

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That'd be super silly. But you could be right. Even when I was full strength I'd still start in tank stance to get the initial aggro. I do wonder if you're right though I think I've seen a couple of experienced players having hate issues against very well versed DPS players as well, so it would depend on how relevant the hate boost in tank stance is, how much enmity tanks generate in general versus how much hate an extremely well played DPS can create.

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Originally Posted by WolfKid

Kinda makes me wonder if the people here didnt even read the patch notes correctly, or at all. Damage got nerfed? I see, tanking stances got buffed in enmity? I see. Me: "Me thinks that my stance will help with hate!" I'm pretty sure the people complaining with enmity issues didnt even have their tank stance up when pulling or grabbing mobs.

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This is a valid point as long as the enmity increase has been calibrated to compensate the dps loss.

It seems OK to me so far, but perhaps a bit biaised since a 210 DRK with the relic generates stupid amounts of hate anyways.

We will need to run the enmity thing on ACT in order to be sure things are balanced (aka "they nerf our dps by 19% -> did they increase the enmity by 19% as well? Or we may have issues in the long term").

The only problems I've had so far with hate was the first pull in A5N when I didn't know what to expect.

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Originally Posted by Cynric

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That part I agree with. Lots of people played tank because they expected a beefier dps with more responsibility. Now they're left with the responsibility and the beef without the dps. That's sure to turn some folks off the role. I was just arguing that the nerf was justified and hasn't destroyed the role.

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Originally Posted by Blitzace

it was always fun to outDMG a noob DPS and actually contribute to the PT Sometimes even carrying it.
Will i stop playing PLD?(Other tank classes) Nope, am i annoyed? yep.

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this, completely agree

I doubt I'll play tank much in DF any more. Why bother when I can contribute more on healer/DPS now?

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Originally Posted by Cynric

I will agree though. Tanks were OP before. A tank could literally carry a run even with very bad players before, and now that wont be a thing as much anymore.

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That's sad though. If I didn't have this new gear grind to motivate me, this would impact my willingness to do duty finder. Once I've got my jobs where I want them, though, I'm out.

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Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

My issue is less with the DPS nerf and more the fact that it negatively impacted my tanking. I never had a problem swapping to defiance for some self heals before, and could easily self heal for 2.4k+ with IB and 7k+ with Equilibrium.

Now I'm lucky if I can manage a 1.5k self heal through IB. My biggest issue is the lack of self healing, which is the main reason I liked Warrior.

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Kinda what I guessed would happen to war, less damage = less self-heal, less self-heal = lower survivability. Sure the larger hp pool looks nice and shiny, but if there is no one filling it back up then it is a waste of numbers. So while I myself rerolled to pld for a static two weeks ago, I still love my war and feel your pain.

Dear quittin tanks: thank you for making my queue time even shorter :)

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Originally Posted by Archaell

Dunno about that. It was really close but I decided to play the paladin this season instead of my WHM.

The dps tanks may stop playing now, mainly as a form of protest, but I am sure these will get replaced by the players who disliked the dps tank meta.

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Sure I liked the dmg I could do pre 3.2 as a war, but I was always neutral to the str meta. But for war especially I can understand the anger, less damage = less survivability since self healing is a large part of that. We were pushed by SE and their design to go str if we wanted our groups to clear some content, we were more or less pushed by the community to go str since people wanted faster runs. I would not be surprised if we see less people play tank now, and people complaining about those tanks who need time to adjust how they tank which might end with even less tanks.

It’s not just saying “meh don’t care about dps”. I was a PLD during fcob/fcob and now War during Alexander, after pushing myself to the limits trying to contribute to the A3/A4 enrage maxing out the last drop of dps I could tanking in DPS instance counting every cooldown the games go “Ok just forget it”.
I was prepared for the nerf, but never dreamed about SE putting the same weight for STR/VIT. This by itself does nothing, already checked with my static and we are running savage pentamelded because it’s better lol. You can actually push more dps with an ilvl 150 accessory!?

So yes, I’m not upset by the nerf itself, I’m upset because the solution was not good enough

Would it be safe to assume that SE has taken these declines in tank dps, it's effect on the overall group dps for dps checks in raids, into consideration when planning the new content?

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Originally Posted by Cynric

Mechanically tank is going to be a bit less fun since you'll have to sit in tank stance a lot going off what others are saying.

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This news just in, tanks playing tank stance...shocking.

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

This news just in, tanks playing tank stance...shocking.

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Got your point but stance dancing was actually fun and interesting - adding diversity to a role which is quite basic afterall could not be bad, no?
Also some valuable mechanics are gated out of tank stance.

Square even made stance dance easier by making Grit not breaking combos anymore in 3.2.

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Originally Posted by Ultear_Milkovich

Got your point but stance dancing was actually fun and interesting - adding diversity to a role which is quite basic afterall could not be bad, no?
Also some valuable mechanics are gated out of tank stance.

Square even made stance dance easier by making Grit not breaking combos anymore in 3.2.

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Agreed, but I feel like we are more free to stance dance now with the greater health cushion. I'm not sure that's so for WAR since they've lost a decent amount of their self heals, and so they are having to reconsider how they handle their health, and depend more on healers. Granted we also have to watch the aggro like a hawk now since it seems the boosted aggro generation may not offset the dps loss.

That means that each tank will be a little more on edge, and Warriors really will experience the 'thrill of battle' as their HP management just became critical.

Personally I'd rather see Tank stances not having the damage penalty and DPS stances be given a larger boon. But that's just me. That -25% on defiance will always urk me the wrong way.

Even the game knows and is smearing it in my face that I will do less in this stance.

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Originally Posted by Divine_Intervention

Would it be safe to assume that SE has taken these declines in tank dps, it's effect on the overall group dps for dps checks in raids, into consideration when planning the new content?

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Yup, they stated they would adjust existing content as well and made dps checks easier.

I'm curious about this question because of queue times. I logged in this morning for a couple of minutes just to taste the air. Did my queue for both Trial roll and lvl 60 roll and both of them took WAY longer than normal. It was still nothing compared to Dps queues, but I thought it was unusual. By the feeling of these forums, it's not because there are more tanks. So, either the changes they made to DF are gumming up the works a little, or too many people are queuing for the new content which is slowing queues down for the older stuff (could very well be the former, considering I got noob bonus on both runs I did).

As a side note, I don't plan on dropping my tank any time soon, but the dmg penalty is a little annoying. They gave Pld's potency buffs ... only to have us do almost identical dmg to what we were doing before. I'll give it some time to see how this plays out, but, so far, it feels like absolutely nothing changed on Pld. It still feels super gimpy. TP holds out a little longer, but lord knows how long that will last before skill speed puts me right back to where I was before.

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

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Nothing wrong with Tanks playing in Tank stance. The game doesn't exactly encourage it with things like blood weapon, but there's nothing wrong with it. It's just not as "Fun" as stance dancing as much as you want. I don't really know what enmity is like right now but the health cushion wouldn't mean much if you can't keep hate while stance dancing.

But yeah I have no idea whats going on xD. I'll leave it to the people online to get a feel for the situation.

I think you'll see a lot of unhappy tank players, but as to how many of them will stop playing their tank there's no real way to say.

The tank players who want to deal DPS: These players often play Warrior and are probably displeased with the (surprisingly large) nerf to DPS in patch 3.2

The tank players who want to be unkillable: These players probably play Paladin and are not happy that SqEx has continued to make imbalanced decisions about their job (including patch 3.2)

The tank players who want a big sword: These players come from both camps. Some are former Paladin who switched in HW, some came to tanking on DRK and are attached to tank DPS because that was the measure in HW.

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Originally Posted by Cynric

The Tank exodus has begun. (Thankfully I switched to Monk before the patch when I saw the PVP DPS nerf alongside the already reduced damage in PVE. DRK has like zero anything in PVP utility wise compared to PLD/War)

They probably.. Should have done things a liiittle bit different.

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Faster Queues for me~

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Originally Posted by MyrahiRounfa

Faster Queues for me~

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You already had fast queues, you glutton!

I'm planning to shift PLD to my secondary over WHM in light of the changes. Ran a few Roulettes with it today and I've not had any trouble with hate so far.

I'm quite happy with the changes, though the .45/.45 split boggles my mind a bit.