Ok let’s review the two benefits of the three tank classes provide
Warrior's: Storm's Eye Combo Bonus: Decreases target's slashing resistance by 10% and HP recovery via healing magic by 20% (Duration: 20s)
Dark Knights: Delirium Combo Bonus: Reduces target's INT by 10% (Duration: 20s)
While paladin lacks any party dps boosting skills.
I propose this change
Remove Monks INT debuff from Dragon Kick
Remove Ninjas Slashing debuff from Dancing Edge
Then add both debuffs to PLD's combo bonus for Royal Authority, but if possible make what debuff depend on what other tank is in party.
So if Dark knight make Royal Authority work as a Slashing debuff
So if Warrior make Royal Authority work as a INT debuff
Balance wise for light parties disable both because balance probably wouldn’t be that good. Or maybe just make it default to slashing.
Then you can buff dark potency’s to be comparable to PLD's ones and maybe lower potency’s slightly on Warrior.
This way all tanks become a viable choice and will defeat the constant drk pld fight for tank slot two.
Needed fix to allow for Drk/Pld raid partys
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02-23-2016, 02:48 PMValkyrie-AmberNeeded fix to allow for Drk/Pld raid partys
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02-23-2016, 02:54 PMPence
So your balance solution for tanks....is to take away utility from the melee DPS with the least utility?
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02-23-2016, 02:57 PMValkyrie-Amber
.... why not allow the tanks to do them debuffs?
atm the ballance still favors DRK/WAR combos incase you dident realise. -
02-23-2016, 02:58 PMPence
You're logic is sound.
Tanks should also get trick attack, mages ballad, armys. Hell, toss is cure, raise and aetherflow why you're at it. Why not allow the tanks to do them?
*My spelling is sound. Leaving it there but. -
02-23-2016, 02:59 PMGalgarion
Orrrrrr we can check out the new content tomorrow and base our suggestions on actual class performance, instead of preemptively assuming your class is going to suck and needs a booster seat.
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02-23-2016, 03:01 PMValkyrie-Amber
.... did I say they should get them debuffs too in op?
No I didn’t -
02-23-2016, 03:03 PMValkyrie-Amber
to break the WAR/DRK prefered combo changes like what I'm saying is needed,
like is monks or nins dps gonna drop to nothing takeing away them two things?
edit: I main a monk and played right dps is good as for nins well... your class needs some work still... though nins played well at low ping can give good drgs and monks a run for their money.
Please leave dps change ideas in dps forum section though because this is kind of the tank section. Yes I have no nin leveled but am somewhat familiar with your dps for raid reasons... -
02-23-2016, 03:23 PMSarcatica
There is no point for any fix for DRK/PLD, since you can bring NIN for slashing debuff. Sure, it will not be as good as having WAR, but better than gimping the MNK/NIN's DPS (based on your suggestion) since they are supposed to DPS anyway.
In the first place, all these min/max-ing are largely for raiders who aim to clear contents ASAP (very often in a much lower ilvl). The changes in 3.2 seems to be insufficient comparing to WAR's, but 3.2 hasn't come out yet and you are judging.
There are already some cases of DRK/PLD comp doing A4S, so it certainly isn't that broken by any means. -
02-23-2016, 03:28 PMValkyrie-Amber
don't you not see if buffs I mentioned were done then nin and monk wouldn’t be debatable and all...
Also the PLD's clearing as4 are just cause second clearers just want to be noted for clearing second with an impossible party cause first place was taken by war/drk.
They are geared far more than first world clearers btw. so there’s no balance in this... -
02-23-2016, 03:31 PMKaeoni
If you got rid of Dancing edge's ability to slap on a Slashing resistance down no one would use Dancing Edge. It might as well be a PvP only ability. No one cares about 20% less healing in PvE
Then what happens if Ninja gets paired with Dark Knights? We just dil with it?
And what about Monks paired with Warriors? Just no Int down allowed?
Why shouldn't Ninja be able to throw up slashing debuff?
Why shouldn't Monks be able to throw up Int Debuff?
Why is Paladin so entitled that they can take from what other classes have? Because it's a tank?
#CheckYourPrivilege
Damn i got to use that twice today!
No perfect balance is ever going to be found while trying to make classes unique and different from one another. I'm not saying this as an excuse for their not to be changes to level the playing field.
BUT!.... I think Buffs are better than Nerfs. And that's how companies generally tackle balancing issues nowadays. Hopefully the Inc Patch will dissolve all our worries and put our hearts to rest! -
02-23-2016, 03:33 PMSyzygian
I hate to say it because its a woefully boring solution and reeks of ***HoMoGeNiZaTiOn-OMG*** but literally the only thing you'd need to do to make PLD/DRK combos good (perhaps not perfect or ideal, but good) would be to give one of them a slashing debuff, incorporated in such a way as to not change either job's rotation. Wouldn't gimp any DPS, and it wouldn't buff PLD/WAR or DRK/WAR combos.
Your ideas are bad, all due respect. -
02-23-2016, 03:38 PMValkyrie-Amber
heres why Warriors and Dark knights fear this, prefered first spots on raid teams!
if pld whant to join a first clear group, mr/mrs pld is your ilevel higher than ours we cleared it a week ago so your ilevel needs to be alil higher than what we cleared it as.
Bottom line pld utility is more healing and surrport and guess what not needed 100% if healers are worth their salt! -
02-23-2016, 03:49 PMValkyrie-Amber
ok i will say this forget WOW
when is a tank required to actually heal other people? thats pld right nows kit.
no other mmo has skills besides wows lay on hands if i rember right. infact them party compositions could skip the need for a healing class.
either buff pld with abilitys to keep all alive and take place of healer and tank or just do something simmilar to what I say to ballance things for tanks... -
02-23-2016, 03:56 PMStarbirth
I would straight up take away the warriors slashing debuff and replace it with something else.
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02-23-2016, 03:56 PMSyzygian
You do know that PLD just got some pretty big buffs and the new raid tier is probably going to favor a PLD MT right? (less DPS checks, more physical damage)
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02-23-2016, 04:04 PMValkyrie-Amber
yes our dps will be sillilar to warriors dps in theory but. look Drk needs work and I mentioned more or less buff them to wars or nerf war slightly keep them equil....
I never said buff pld to drk lv though probs similar after patch...
in the end plds utility is still fluff... so drop dps to heal?... with strict dps checks that is hard till war/drk partys clear it first...
the tank issue is still fact of utility...
if we chose a different fix not to make tanks similar... ok make pld be able to use medica 2 like whm then healers can full dps and make up for plds dps loss..
a true fix based on holy pld from wow would be make pld hybrid healer and tank. allowing healers to stay dps stance...
warrior is dps + tank while drk is mid range if following fix line above make war and drk simmilar.
I never mentioned buff plds dps at all... like if im tanking wow.. i used to love to tank and heal people... made hole pld truly fun and unique.. never tryed shadow... -
02-23-2016, 04:05 PMStarbirth
Favor is a strong word. Im just hoping its balanced.
Disclaimer: Hope is not rational :\ -
02-23-2016, 04:06 PMValkyrie-Amber
ikr... that what im pointing out to personally I prefer what I just said to my op...
a true fix based on holy pld from wow would be make pld hybrid healer and tank. allowing healers to stay dps stance...
warrior is dps + tank while drk is mid range if following fix line above make war and drk simmilar.
I never mentioned buff plds dps at all... like if im tanking wow.. i used to love to tank and heal people... made hole pld truly fun and unique.. never tryed shadow...
plds mattered in wow groups we skipped out on a healer for another dps... the feel is simmilar with clemany but 2 sec cast 3.2... still dosent lower the major mp cost...
warrior is dps tank make Drk mid range and make pld tank and healer.... -
02-23-2016, 04:09 PMKaeoni
I can't decide on Nachos... or a Chicken Sandwich.
But just because I think Liquid cheese is the tits on my Nachos. Doesn't mean the Chicken sandwich should have it. First off, How would the chicken sandwich feel If I took away the special sauce? Has anyone taken into account how the sandwich feels? You just proposed liquid nacho cheese on a sandwich? Isn't the sandwich good enough for you? You like the Chicken sandwich because it's a Chicken Sandwich and not Nachos. The things that make nachos nachos are nachos and specific toppings. The same goes for sandwiches. If you don't respect that uniqueness you're gonna get Low fat bullshit for both of them. And then no one likes them.
TDLR; Good job you ruined nachos and sandwiches for everyone. I hope you're happy
IM SO HUNGRY. -
02-23-2016, 04:13 PMValkyrie-Amber
Wow that’s random but it’s true.. Choice advantages and disadvantages matter... but in this case only two of three toppings are needed and ones highly debatable just take it to be different and claim it tastes better people say after the first people claim your nuts no way that tasted as good as our nacho cheese cause we like ate it first and yours are left overs with some extra spice...
actually almost died thinking that comparison XD -
02-23-2016, 04:17 PMStarbirthFrom someone who mains PLD I will agree everything but divine veil could be considered fluff, but every PLD fluff skill has had its day at one time such as cover during Titan farms or Shield bash for Twintania Dreadknights(god I miss Twin). The team in charge of raid design just lacks the coherence to tie certain utility skills to boss mechanics not to the point they are required but where they will just shine.Quote:
Originally Posted by Valkyrie-Amber
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02-23-2016, 06:08 PMSpookyGhostThis man is a genius.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pence
Hire him, SE. -
02-24-2016, 03:33 AMMikeZulu
No, having ninjas and monks do their respective utilities even though they overlap with current tanks allows for a comp to have a warrior but not a ninja/have a dark knight but not a monk, and vice versa. The tanks are finnneeeee.