Maybe some of you guys and gals have experienced such.

Just a bit of a new player rant. I was alone, facing King Thordan Extreme and the rest of the people I was with left because I died. I read the guide and watched videos but that is always never enough unless you experience the fight itself. I tried putting a party up in party finder for new and experienced players but of course, no one would join. I had to go to the extent of lying to get in a group because they would not have accepted me if I told them I was new. It was a bit hurting and offensive, I'll admit. Maybe some of you might give some insights, even advice.

Make friends. Run content with friends. Problem solved.

So you lied to join a group, were evidently new and couldn't hide that you had no experience, and people left?

.....

Advice? Don't lie.

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Originally Posted by RyuRoots

Make friends. Run content with friends. Problem solved.

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Words of truth. Make an effort to get into an FC/LS that does the kind of content you want to do, communicate with people. Also I would encourage you to try setting up that PF training group again, there are different kinds of people online every day so don't give up just because it failed once. Being the new guy in any content can be rough, but good luck to you!

Remember: When the going get's tough, the tough gets going.

Dont lie. People WILL notice. And I cant blame them for leaving nor leaving you behind because it totally sucks if you want to get stuff down but run into people lying and holding everyone back. I dont mean to offend you but Thordan has a lot of phases that you need to learn inside out - so a group is right to prefer people being on the same level and not start from scartch everytime again. For "farm" groups that is even more important because you dont want to teach people then - which is totally fine, everyone has the right to play this game the way they enjoy it - if they find enough people to join them.
Joining a PF-group by lying will force those people to either teach someone new the whole fight (something that they may not want at that point because they want to make progress themselves) or leave that person behind and start PF all over again. DONT DO THAT.

So, that was the first part of my advice - just... dont. Even if you want to beat this fight - dont be that guy.
Now, what to do? You tried it already: Make your own group - I admit, that might not be as easy as joining a group that has already been formed, but it will be YOUR group with your rules. Make friends. Ask your FC, build or join Linkshells that focus on doing stuff like that - all of that will take time, but its worth the effort to establish some sort of "static" or have at least some people, even friends, to relay on for said content. Either that or you wait till they nerf the shit out of this fight. I assume it will go DF tomorrow, Echo will be addeded - there you can hop into DF, dont have to lie but most likely wont clear...

Thank you for the comments so far. Like I said, it went to that point, that extent of lying to join at least one group. That is definitely not in my nature. But there was a little bit of desperation to join that fight, especially since it wasn't in DF and I have been waiting the whole day. But like you said Vidu, hoping that it will be available in DF.

The thing with extreme and savages is that usually people put together PRACTICE groups first. You can't just enter an experienced group and expect they will explain and teach you the fight, and wipe like 10 times before a clear. They probably want to get over it asap. But yeah, to even practice, it would be good to have a good FC. Makes finding people easier.

In my experience for content like thordan ex, start with learning parties. Don't try to lie your way into farm parties its pretty easy to tell who is a noobie in fights. Once you get the fight down doing learning parties then you can try joining a farm party with, "I know the full fight may I join". As long as you are not dying to the same thing over and over, most farm parties will let you run with them to get that clear.

My personal opinion if you are still trying to clear thordan ex, just wait a day. It's about to be put in duty finder you can practice all you want in there. When ready try to join a farm party which should start showing in party finder a lot again due to the incentive they put in that trial.

Best practice for learning primal fights is to get in on the learning groups that happen on the first day of the patch. At that point everyone is on the same playing field so there's a lot less discrimination.

As soon as the first group clears it, you'll start to see farm groups that say "must have clear", "no tome bonus", etc.

I think this is why they separated primals from the main scenario because people were just speeding through the story to unlock primals as soon as possible to be in those first groups. Now you can just unlock the primal first and do the story later.

It's kind of a shame that the community is like that but it's pretty much standard these days that if you aren't there in the first day, it'll take you a lot longer to get a clear.

Lying to a farm party is a good way to get blacklisted, and depending on the size of your server and how prominent those members are you might have a hard time getting into other farms because of it.

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Originally Posted by RayfeDes

I had to go to the extent of lying to get in a group because they would not have accepted me if I told them I was new. It was a bit hurting and offensive, .

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And this is where i lost all sympathy for you.

If you join what I assume was a farm party and as you said..."that is always never enough unless you experience the fight itself"..what did you honestly expect lol..

It honestly sounds like you were just looking for a carry tbh.

So OP can't join farm groups because he doesn't know a fight and he has to wait for DF where he can probably get experienced players to carry him, or, if not, disband and try DF once again. It looks like a problem to me, and it is not just OP's fault, a lot of people do exactly like this.

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Originally Posted by Andrea

And this is where i lost all sympathy for you.

If you join what I assume was a farm party and as you said..."that is always never enough unless you experience the fight itself"..what did you honestly expect lol..

It honestly sounds like you were just looking for a carry tbh.

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Yes he had to lie and try to get done with the duty, I think most of us did that at least once. I know it's not a smart decision yet I understand his choices are limited and had to give it a try.

Why do you people love flaming. The guy is here to receive advice and not judgements.

You're in the wrong for lying, pure and simple. I get that at times, you may have a harder time finding a full team - heck, this is true for everyone. Farm and Learning parties alike are taking time to fill in PF at the moment - because we're so close to 3.2 that most people don't feel it necessary to grind those out anymore.

Even still, just yesterday as an example? Someone had a Learning Party up seeking to work towards getting a clear. I think at least 5 of us were veterans of the fight. We got them consistently to phase 8+ and got them a lot of the experience they needed. Because they were honest.

Lying's just a good way to get blacklisted.

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Originally Posted by LordHadi

Yes he had to lie and try to get done with the duty, I think most of us did that at least once. I know it's not a smart decision yet I understand his choices are limited and had to give it a try.

Why do you people love flaming. The guy is here to receive advice and not judgements.

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Because "Don't lie." IS advice. It shouldn't even need to be said, but the fact that we have to say it is the depressing part. Don't lie to people, and people will treat you better.

to make life easier for yourself, assume that all extremes and savage raids are not pug content. Get a static, or a FC that clears this stuff. Failing all of that, learning parties is the best next thing, but you really need consistency in players for these fights.

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Originally Posted by LordHadi

Why do you people love flaming. The guy is here to receive advice and not judgements.

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Ok advice then. Don't lie.

If people set up a party for the sole purpose to farm it is 100% unfair on them to join when you yourself know that you don't know how to do the fight.

Asking first is one thing but to straight up join and hope they are ok with it when they notice is completely rude.

Also, even if it wasn't a farm party, it is up to the party leader to set the entry requirements and the OP fully admitted he had to lie to meet these requirements.

As others have said, start your own PF, ask FC/friends, make new friends that also would like to clear it and future things with.

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Originally Posted by vp_cmc

It looks like a problem to me, and it is not just OP's fault, a lot of people do exactly like this.

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Well yeah, we can consider this a problem - but there is a solution to that: Socialize! Make friends, find a FC, join or establish Linkshells! This is an MMO after all - and some fights are just not meant to be cleared with 7 random people who know nothing about the fight and go there own ways after they spended an hour on getting their kill. And I'm glad it is this way! 90% of the game is faceroll anyways - and then there are a few fights (savage, current EX-primals) that require you to go in with a group of either experts or a well established team.
If you dont want to make friends and just play on your own you might have to accept that some content isnt for you - and its only a small part of the content.

Reading some of these comments is more of a justification why everything needs to be dropped into Duty Finder from the get go. I just will never get this reasoning that hard content has to be locked out of solo match making; only to have the trials opened up after it obsolete old content.
I'll leave this here...
Chhoo chooo.
http://i.imgur.com/WYGvEYL.jpg?1
That's the sound of the train that has left the station.

Advice for new players. If you join this game 2 weeks to a month after a patch, don't bother with end game. Anything that can't be done via duty finder, don't bother with it. Just cap your level and complete the main story. Keep your weekly tomes capped and purchase the gear. Level some crafts and make gil. Then when the next mayor patch comes down, introduce yourself to the end game.

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Originally Posted by RayfeDes

Thank you for the comments so far. Like I said, it went to that point, that extent of lying to join at least one group. That is definitely not in my nature.

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Originally Posted by Andrea

Ok advice then. Don't lie.

If people set up a party for the sole purpose to farm it is 100% unfair on them to join when you yourself know that you don't know how to do the fight.

Asking first is one thing but to straight up join and hope they are ok with it when they notice is completely rude.

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He mentioned lying is not in his nature and had to go to that extend. So telling him "don't lie" is what I call rude. It's not an advice when he already admitted it wasn't the right thing to do

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Originally Posted by LordHadi

He mentioned lying is not in his nature and had to go to that extend. So telling him "don't lie" is what I call rude. It's not an advice when he already admitted it wasn't the right thing to do

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He asked for advice. Should I tip toe around the actually reason he ran into problems?

I don't see how im being rude when I am literally saying why people reacted how they did.

I'm sorry you felt desperate to join the fight.

But misrepresenting yourself and then wasting seven other people's time is rude. Please don't do that. They were well within their rights to leave.

Make practice groups, join groups that say "helping my friend" because honestly if the friend hasn't cleared it you are both on equal footing anyway.
If you can't find these groups, make/find friends, and try and help each. Otherwise wait for it to go into DF and try in it...

I still haven't cleared Thordan myself, in fact I never even entered it...other content kept me busy, so I'll be trying DF tomorrow probably XD

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Originally Posted by Natashio

Reading some of these comments is more of a justification why everything needs to be dropped into Duty Finder from the get go. I just will never get this reasoning that hard content has to be locked out of solo match making; only to have the trials opened up after it obsolete old content.

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Have you ever tried DFing hard content? All it takes is for one person to have not read a guide and is unwilling to learn for the whole group to disband, and have to regroup again (RIP DPS). The reason that it isnt in the DF is because these fights require co-ordination and strategy making beyond what the DF is capable of. What happens right now is poor for both sides, content is challenging and interesting, becomes outdated, is nerfed into the ground so that groups can do it in DF without having to learn anything.

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

Have you ever tried DFing hard content? All it takes is for one person to have not read a guide and is unwilling to learn for the whole group to disband, and have to regroup again (RIP DPS). The reason that it isnt in the DF is because these fights require co-ordination and strategy making beyond what the DF is capable of. What happens right now is poor for both sides, content is challenging and interesting, becomes outdated, is nerfed into the ground so that groups can do it in DF without having to learn anything.

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How does that hurt statics though? If it is put in DF, at least non-static people can go in and see some of it and get experience, then maybe PF it.

OP, you're on my same server. Add me to your friends list. I have Thordan on farm and frequently do learning parties with my FC and with other people (which will probably become more of a thing again because of the primal pigeons). After the patch we'll probably be busy with the new content for the most part, but maybe later this week we could do some learning parties. My FC knows the entire fight and just hasn't been able to clear it yet (we keep getting low dps pugs and people that die a lot :/) but the early phases aren't bad to talk one person through. Voice chat would be a requirement because typing it out is a pain in the butt.

As for my advice, two things. 1) You have an i180 weapon, which is a bit low for the content. Look into an Esoterics weapon or the i200 relic weapon (Eso weapon will be very easy to get after the patch tonight). 2) Don't lie. I understand that you felt desperate and like you had no other recourse, but I really can't blame those people for leaving when they signed up for a farm and they ended up with someone that didn't know the fight at all. Thordan EX is a complex fight with a lot of mechanics; it's not the kind of fight you can just blunder into and pray the rest of the party can clear it for you because odds are you will kill other people in the process. When people end up with Weakness in later phases, the healers literally cannot keep them standing through the AoE damage.

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Originally Posted by vp_cmc

So OP can't join farm groups because he doesn't know a fight and he has to wait for DF where he can probably get experienced players to carry him, or, if not, disband and try DF once again. It looks like a problem to me, and it is not just OP's fault, a lot of people do exactly like this.

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Sorry, but it is his fault. It's the same for anyone that lies to get into a party. The consequences are nobody's fault but their own. There are other ways to go about it, it just requires a lot more effort on the part of the person wanting to clear. None of us came into this game knowing a bunch of people to play with. It seems like a lot of people miss the "multiplayer" part of MMO anymore. Get out there and meet people! Socialize! The world isn't full of NPC's. You will meet people willing to help you out, or at the very least, people on your own stage of learning that want to learn with you.

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Originally Posted by LordHadi

Yes he had to lie and try to get done with the duty, I think most of us did that at least once. I know it's not a smart decision yet I understand his choices are limited and had to give it a try.

Why do you people love flaming. The guy is here to receive advice and not judgements.

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I have never lied about my experience in a fight to clear it. It's a bad decision with many negative consequences. If you get a reputation for lying to get into parties, eventually people will either blacklist you after hearing about you from friends or they will kick you on sight. People are offering the OP very sound advice when they simply say, "don't lie."

Don't lie. Reputation is important in an MMO, getting a bad rep may very well get you blacklisted/kicked from future parties even if you then do know the encounter. Not to mention it is immediately obvious, especially in a fight like Thor Ex when people don't know what to do. It may take time, but you are much more likely to get a group if you are honest from the start and ask if they mind giving you a shot

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Originally Posted by RayfeDes

Just a bit of a new player rant. I was alone, facing King Thordan Extreme and the rest of the people I was with left because I died. I read the guide and watched videos but that is always never enough unless you experience the fight itself. I tried putting a party up in party finder for new and experienced players but of course, no one would join. I had to go to the extent of lying to get in a group because they would not have accepted me if I told them I was new. It was a bit hurting and offensive, I'll admit. Maybe some of you might give some insights, even advice.

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Liars tainting the PF pool are a large part of the reason why many experienced players prefer sticking to their linkshells and FC for getting parties together. As other people have already said, it's not advisable to continue doing so in the future.

No one's flaming here really. To sum up all the responses; don't lie, it won't work out because they will know, and also before you join a group that is farming or goes for the clear, practice with the learning groups that are up in DF. A party that goes directly for the clear assumes that you can handle your shit in there and won't be in the mood for 10 wipes and a person constantly failing certain mechanics. There. Nothing round about that, it's the truth. People are not that patient.

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Originally Posted by RayfeDes

Thank you for the comments so far. Like I said, it went to that point, that extent of lying to join at least one group. That is definitely not in my nature. But there was a little bit of desperation to join that fight, especially since it wasn't in DF and I have been waiting the whole day. But like you said Vidu, hoping that it will be available in DF.

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It'll be in duty finder starting tomorrow, good luck though. I suspect the clear rate of duty finder groups to be less than 5%.

It's really not hard to make your own party finder group and I recommend you do that instead. Even if you have to wait a bit for it to fill, it's better than not doing it at all.

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Originally Posted by FoxyAreku

It'll be in duty finder starting tomorrow, good luck though. I suspect the clear rate of duty finder groups to be less than 5%.

It's really not hard to make your own party finder group and I recommend you do that instead. Even if you have to wait a bit for it to fill, it's better than not doing it at all.

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90% of DF Thordan EX groups will probably see 2-3 people die in the first Meteorain lol. xD

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

90% of DF Thordan EX groups will probably see 2-3 people die in the first Meteorain lol. xD

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I was in a learning party yesterday, didn't see meteors in three or four runs, then I went to help an FC mate with something. DF is not going to be pretty for Thordan but hopefully people get their feet wet.

The only take away I have from this is I wish SE would make it so you can Queue solo from the get go for this stuff. Then if people want to learn to get in a clear group later they have some experience. Or heck, maybe the mass majority will learn it fast enough the clear rates in DF go up. Blocking stuff from DF has adverse effects on those people who dont have big FC's or enough friends to clear stuff with. Sometimes you just wanna solo queue and take a crack at it.

I've been playing this game for a very very long time now, but Ive fallen into the routine of not giving a damn about the Extreme versions of fights until it becomes solo-queue, because quite-frankly, most of the time I just want the ease of DF. What's the point in having the DF, if I have to make the party myself just to get in it?

We can have the best of both worlds. Having it be solo-queue from the start doesnt stop folks from making parties in PF...

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Originally Posted by RayfeDes

I had to go to the extent of lying to get in a group because they would not have accepted me if I told them I was new. It was a bit hurting and offensive, I'll admit.

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How do you think they felt being lied to?
Sometimes you need to sit in a Party Finder for your experience level a bit longer than usual for some thing. There's no shortcut to victory.

[QUOTE=Vespar;3582456
We can have the best of both worlds. Having it be solo-queue from the start doesnt stop folks from making parties in PF...[/QUOTE]

I've been thinking a bit about this today - and I'm afraid I have to disagree. Because we wont have the best of both worlds actually - this content is not really meant to be cleared with a DF-group. Now, what happens when its been put into DF? People expect to be able to beat it! And what happens if they cant and have to realise that it will almost be impossible to get a kill that way? Sure, some will now put up PF-groups but I'm pretty sure an aweful lot will scream for nerfs and content that is less hard! If I'm not mistaken in this special case its only the echo that has been put in place - cool, you can still click that off if you want "the real experience". For some fights its not possible to have the "real" fight as it was intended - T7, T13 come to mind because they were nerfed mechanic-wise. A mechanic-heavy fight like Thordan has sadly a lot potential to be nerfed that way aswell - less dps-checks, no paralyzse when missing towers... I wont go on, dont wanna give anyone ideas... I'm actually kinda afraid that content, if it goes straight into DF, will just be a lot easier and less challenging so people wont get frustrated that easly and claim that the content is to hard

The best thing to do is be honest with your experience level with other players in PUGs. You do not want to tarnish your reputation or cause bad relationships and drama with other players on your server.

Unfortunately, you will find less learning parties the older the content becomes. It will eventually become mostly clear and farming parties in Party Finder. If you are late to the rush of new content, you may be caught in a Catch 22 of not being able to clear because you do not have enough experience. However you cannot get experience without learning parties. It is a vicious cycle.

If you are fortunate, you can run content with players in your FCs or Linkshells. Make a lot of friends and be a solid player with good attitude and commitment. Good players like playing with other good players.

during 2.x I sometime waited for the fight to get in duty finder because there were no practice from the beginning parties, they alway were practice starts from the last phase or farm parties, you just have to feel the pain of nobody knowing any strategy usually...or just lie and join a farm party like most players do.

The Problem is everyone expects instant results. The EXP players expect a clear on the first try without having synergy with the other 7 players. The new players either expect exp players to devote their time to helping you learn or clear/carry you in a day or two. The player in between (The Phasers) don't want to help the people lower than them but expect help from those who have cleared.

There are actually more people who haven't cleared content than people who have but it's the mentality of them all combined that force New players to feel like they have to lie, The Phasers to act exclusive and the EXP's to avoid the trouble altogether. I feel like the Phasers get mad at the EXP players and take it out on the new players by doing the VERY same thing they don't want to be done to them and that's exclude them.

If your FC or LSes are full of people like this then you need to search harder for better people to play with. Sadly that's the mentality of general NA population and won't change overnight.

Lots of you people are saying "don't lie" but then most of you are not offering adequate solutions.

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

Lots of you people are saying "don't lie" but then most of you are not offering adequate solutions.

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With the current game set up, there is no solution. Keeping things the way they are preserves the challenge, and keeps the fights as intended (meaning interesting, challenging, and fun).

The alternative is that all fights come out easy enough to be DFable and the game becomes stale (but hey, everyone gets to participate right?)

There is actually a third option, that has been talked about but will take some time to implement, and that is raid finder, which by the sounds of it seems like a cross server PF specifically for raids, which will give people more access to what they need, rather than recruiting in server

At least if they were in DF we could all practice the first stages of fights without the exclusionary nonsense of day 2 onward with party finder's "college graduate" conundrum: we don't want you unless you have experience but you can't get experience because no one will take you.