Once upon a time, I tried to crack the Raimdelle Codex using XIVMODELS. Not the entire thing mind you, but a simple, easy to understand chart that could be used to understand the bestiary as a whole (while I slooowly chugged away on the big-picture over at the wiki). Then, XIVMODELS stopped being a thing, like what, two weeks later (Patch 2.2)? I gave up and promised I'd keep working on it, and that I'd come back when I managed to get somewhere.Quote:
Moose, share your notes!
They're all incoherent jumbles of shorthand.
Share the ones that aren't!
There are no ones that aren't!
It took a long time and many trips through Square Enix's databases, fansite databases, chats with people who are still trying to get a modelviwer together, and more, but let's forget the nitty-gritty ambigiously-legitty details. I'm getting back on track! However, because I've had to make a lot of judgment calls, I've given it a subtitle to differentiate it from versions such as the one at the Stillglade Fane or the one behind Oda-san's false bookshelf.
THE RAIMDELLE CODEX ALCES
Great Oschon's Raven, is that the same spreadsheet he was using in 2013?
No. Yes. Shut up.
Dear sweet merciful Twelve, would you fine loremongers like to help? We've got a new structure and we've got a new checklist, but we're still missing a few species. And a few names are surely not accurate. And I've probably made some mistakes. And new additions will come in every patch. But I think that it's well within our grasp, at last. And we have this beautiful lore forum to discuss it! (Huge thanks to Rocl, the first beta tester and professional tell-me-what-I-buggered-up technician.)
Let's finish what Raimdelle started.
(Also, I totally did end up cracking the Coblyns, again.)
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The Raimdelle Codex Alces
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02-14-2016, 12:27 PMAnonymooseThe Raimdelle Codex Alces
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02-21-2016, 12:37 PMZohar_Lahar
I think Ghrah are some kind of weird elementals.
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02-22-2016, 10:37 AMAnonymooseGiven that all we know of them comes from Pharos HM, they very well could be. In XI, ghrah cores did reflect an elemental aspect, a trait that is most likely obscured in Pharos Sirius since everything relating to elements (Slimes, Flans, Sprites) has been over-aspected (corrupted). For the ghrah, this is even right there in their name, Corruption. My first guess was that they were a creation of the Kobold, as Pharos seems to be home to a lot of experimental Kobold technology - mech suits, behemoth golems, new breeds of bomb. Given that Ghrah have cores and Kobolds are adept at making golems, I labeled them tentatively as soulkin. We should be on the lookout for more hints, though. Was there anything interesting in the names of their attacks? I keep forgetting to look at those.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zohar_Lahar
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02-23-2016, 05:46 PMKyan
Mandragora: You have included all the minions but not the halloween pumpkin one. I are helping, yes? ;)
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02-27-2016, 08:47 PMAnonymooseYes!Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyan
You raise an interesting point, actually. The Mandragoras (of Hildibrand fame) all have minion counterparts, while the Pumpkin Butler stands alone as only a minion. This bestiary is built around actual, combatable mobs, but the minions are clearly living mandragoras (as the FATE combatants were), and the Pumpkin Butler seems none the less so. It stands to reason, then, that the vegetable-head family should be taken all or nothing, Pumpkin included.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyan
What then to do? Remove them all? Or add Pumpkin despite there not being a combatable exemplar? 'Tis what I did for the Direwolf, afterall.
What the hells. I'll allow it. (Until such a time as that I remove them all or SE adds other vegetable-headed enemies.)
Pumpkin Butler added.
(NOTE: Many basic animals, critter minions, mounts, and holiday variants will not probably not be added, but this one has good precedent.) -
02-28-2016, 01:54 AMWyrahFhurrst
Why not add them, though? Are the animal and plant minions not flora and fauna of Eorzea as well? Do they not deserve to be included in a complete bestiary?
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02-28-2016, 02:26 PMAnonymooseYes and no. When you focus on the things SE has made clear borders for, it's much more concrete. If you start trying to accommodate every danner sage and hunting hawk that comes along, though, it all starts to slip through your fingers as you scramble to collect scant mentions and compare them by language. Some are crazy inspecific, some have nothing but a name and the icons are shared, and some aren't even the same objects in different languages. It's better to just assume that The Raimdelle Codex in Eorzea might have all of these things, but the out-of-world bestiary based on it isn't as good on the arguably irrelevant stuff because the out-of-world people working on it can't reasonably dedicate the resources to make it that good.Quote:
Originally Posted by WyrahFhurrst
The minions (what you're actually asking about specifically) haunt a frustrating middle ground. They have models, they have background, but they also don't appear in the world or add much beyond flavor (and even that is fluid). Take the Owlet, for example. It was originally planned to drop in Gubal, so it was an owl that hadn't been made into Skatane yet. It was changed to drop in Fractal, so now it's part of the source DNA of the Mirrorknight. Either way, all you get out of it is that owls exist in Eorzea, and it didn't seem to be of much value to muck up the cloudkin list with things like [Cloudkin / Owl / Owlet] [Cloudkin / Hawk / Hunting Hawk] just yet.
Though, now that a huge amount of the work is out of the way (and updating for 3.2 has been relatively easy)... maybe there could be a list of "other" simple mobs and plants? But it'd always be incomplete and not be guaranteed to match by language... -
02-29-2016, 06:35 PMKyan
To be fair: I forgot that they were in the Hildebrand quest as fightable monsters, so I would have accepted no.
Certain minions are also present in cutscenes or field variants, such as the black coeurl kitten in Alexander Midas, or the quest chain involving the wolf pup and coeurl kitten.
If the bestiary is to focus on fightable fauna and flora, I think you should stick to your guns to avoid that grey area. -
05-03-2016, 07:25 PMsciencebot
The latest GE interview explained what 'Prime' means, the disposition of poroggo, the Ishgardian Soulkin/Voidsent Conundrum, and the mystery of the single silver pugil. So, that's a lot of progress!
Have we ever heard one way or the other about the gnat vilekin/voidsent confusion, though? Ark Ked makes it seem even muddier than ever. -
05-04-2016, 08:48 AMAnonymooseIt's funny you mention gnats, because I removed them from even the "This isn't very important." question list so I didn't have too many bestiary inquiries, lol. (I didn't want to have too many personal project questions at the cost of things people were actually interested in.) And yet I've made barely any progress on the gnats, shy of being a few yalms short of just accepting that they're voidsent now, or at least that Eorzeans are quick to incorrectly (but officially) deem that they are.Quote:
Originally Posted by sciencebot
As you say, the Ark Ked continues to muddy the waters. Of course, not every monster in the Ark is voidsent. There's cloudkin that flew into the open hull (vulture, zu, griffin), ditto vilekin (wamoura) and what I think are wavekin skyfish (cetus, hybodus) and the elemental hydrosprites that came in with them.
As far as voidsent, We see the blackguards, hellhounds, and gargoyles come out of coffins, and the puddings come from voidgates summoned by Cuchulainn. Likewise, Echidna's Triad card calls her a voidsent in service to Scathach, which I suppose extends to her cobras (which technically make Allag's cobras synthetic voidsent or chimeric scalekin that just so happen to look exactly like void cobras? I don't know.)
Irminsul (the tree) seems like legitimate void-growth of some kind; it even uses "pulse of the void". The "Pagan" enemies (vine, shrub, knot) are extensions of Irminsul.
However, the morbols, I'd hazard, are just... morbols. Have we ever heard anything that'd put us in doubt as to the Morbol's nature? I mean, sure, perhaps an Allag-modified seedkin, but it's always been a seedkin, right? How did they get there? I don't know. Seeds hitching a ride on the wamoura? That just leaves Sawtooth, which seems directly related to Irminsul, and ...
Ark Ked
Now, gnats are explicitly called Voidsent in only one place, that I can find (FATE: Stopping the Spread). However, they're implied to be voidsent in many other places: You've got the bloodlappers that appear for the Demon Wall (both times), and the Void Jumper, which appears in two leves and one quest.
The quest, The Hidden Chapter, is actually one of those things that's easy to dismiss as a "Haw haw, dumb Eorzean!" bit of deliberate misinformation, as the other "voidsent" in this quest are bats as slugs (aka probably not voidsent). The leves, though, The Burning Reason and Throw the Book at Him both feature the same set of mobs - a gnat, a bomb, and a pudding - allegedly all voidsent. I'm going to have to personally do those leves and see if the gnats are blatantly called forth or might have just wandered into the area.
I still find it weird. 1.0 called them vilekin at every turn... (Protecting the Pilgrims, Netting the Gnats)
What changed?
I'd also love to know why there are Diresaurs in Turn 13... -
05-04-2016, 06:40 PMtwilitfall
It's really late for me, but I seem to recall a particular Aevis in Snowcloak called the Dove Aevis. (I'll revisit this when I'm not dead tired.)
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05-06-2016, 02:50 AMPhyllo
This a great project here and i love how it really gives off an encyclopedia feel, however I'm not really fond of the Google sheet looks, I can't guarantee much (because I suspect it'd require a tremendous amount of work) but if you ever want to give it some better appearance, like a pseudo old grimoire styled encyclopedia looks, I have a few notions of infography and other stuff, I could look into it if you're interested :)
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05-06-2016, 04:52 AMAnonymooseI can at least explain the why for the spreadsheet presentation and you can tell me if you have any ideas.Quote:
Originally Posted by Phyllo
See that (Public) at the end of the sheet name? There's also a (Private) version that is much, much bigger and much, much, much more complicated. It lists all 5000+ mobs in the game and the 1500+ unique visual variants that are potentially different species (the number of actually different species is a fraction of that). The private version allows me to ensure that all the new mob names / species are added during a new patch, sort the complete list by virtually any variable, and make expedient edits. The (slightly) more publicly presentable public version, which is organized more by how we think than how machines think, is then generated directly from it.
Detaching it from spreadsheets entirely would likely require a third jump. I've just yet to figure out a way to do that that's not, like... a lot more labor.
That said, this public sheet is more or less a reference guide for wikis and databases (if they so choose to use Codex Alces as their foundation for mob classification). The sheets took a while to build, but it's nothing compared to using it to build the larger bestiaries. But (at least at Gamer Escape) we're gonna try! -
05-06-2016, 07:57 AMPhyllo
Alright fair enough, I knew there was a lot of work behind it as I said I already suspected it but I didn't thought it'd be to that extent x3
As for the idea I had in mind was a way to make an actual website out of it, with proper design while keeping all the backstage work as close as it is to avoid unnecessary additional workload, but now that you have told me this, even without seeing tho whole private part I can already imagine its size and it makes me start to wonder if it can be and how to make that without requiring a massive amount of work as you said.
That said if you ever find a way I'd be glad to help :D if it's within my abilities of course x) -
06-15-2016, 02:36 AMAnonymoose
I do believe the reference chart is just about updated for 3.3, minus the BOLO mobs marked with a ◎. We didn't add very many this time around, which is nice. However, we still have a decent chunk (35-ish) of mobs that I've never seen or don't have a complete pool of names to pull a best-guess from. Please let me know if you find any.
MUSING AHEAD
Wind-aspected flans I still don't have a good name for; I've been calling them meringues, but that's meaningless headcanon.
I'm not very comfortable with the name or taxonomy of the persona (black ghost made of faces). The Hunter-scholar of northern Thanalan seems sure it's an ashkin, so that's where I've put it for now. Still, Weeping City added a second version of this (in white) and called it a Mhachi Ghost. There are too many ghosts and not enough information for what they are (or even what they're thought to be). We've got the bogy (and revenant subspecies), which are called voidsent and assumed to be restless spirits. We've got the bhoots, whose genera names are still murky and how they differ from the bogies I have no idea. And we've got the "personas" ... maybe ... depending on the Hunter-scholar. And that's not even mentioning wisps. I dunno. Keep an eye out.
The slimes are starting to be cleaned up a bit, though I still don't have a good name for the yellow or purple ones. Despite the fact that they're probably voidsent related to the pudding and hecteye, I've been naming them after various bodily fluids as seems the trend.
I still can't settle on a name for the white aevis. That is all.
Did anybody notice Forgall's movements closely resemble the FFXI Dvergar? ... Chair-demons incoming?
ANYROAD...
As always, I encourage you all to correct me, report bugs, or argue cases.
Polish polish polish. -
06-15-2016, 12:45 PMtymora
Yeah, my first thought was...Pandemonium Warden is here. (On Forgall)
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06-19-2016, 01:12 PManubisgod89
Just noticed that the Hippogryphs appear to have accidentally migrated over to the Voidsent category instead of the cloudkin one (not sure if that was intended?)
Also, the megalotragus is in voidsent as well - I'd have figured it to be beastkin, but maybe not? I'm a bit curious about them in general - in the Aquapolis they're always grouped with an auroch, so I'm assuming the floors are trying to match like-creatures with like-creatures....
....although bilokos arrive with baby sasquatches, so maybe I'm entirely off base.
Since I'm in the voidsent section, I presume entities like Anantaboga in Amdapor Keep NM are also dahak, along with the Valefors in Labyrinth of the Ancients? -
06-19-2016, 01:23 PMMorningstar1337
Seem you need a name for the White Aevises. Since the Aevis mobs come from XII, how about Archaeoaevis?
Alternatively we could call the subgenus Jura Aevis (Assuming that Stone Vigil HM is their first appearance in the game)
On a side note. I think the "Genus" of Kuribu would be a Golem (though more advanced then the usual rock monsters), the Winged Lion might be the same -
06-19-2016, 02:58 PMRoclThis is actually a point of contention between me and Moose, so I can assure you that it is wholly on purpose. I cannot recall his reasoning (nor mine against) but I have memory of the discussion.Quote:
Originally Posted by anubisgod89
Megalotragus had previously only appeared in Amdapor Keep (Hard) and based on their aldgoat model skeleton, the assumption of being some sort of voidsent possessed beastkin didn't seem unreasonable. With their use in Aquapolis I too had been pushing for their reclassification. However we have to be careful with Aquapolis though because....Quote:
Also, the megalotragus is in voidsent as well - I'd have figured it to be beastkin, but maybe not? I'm a bit curious about them in general - in the Aquapolis they're always grouped with an auroch, so I'm assuming the floors are trying to match like-creatures with like-creatures....
There's some odd mixing in Aquapolis for sure... a dullahan arrives with polis magus, viking and centaur which are carbon copies of their Antitower brethren. Another wrinkle to the rather annoying anomaly of those animated armors.Quote:
....although bilokos arrive with baby sasquatches, so maybe I'm entirely off base.
This sort of answers Morningstar1337's musings as well: the genus is rather model specific. Kuribu and Winged Lion are probably some form of golem, aye, most soulkin would be similar. Anantaboga and Valefor both use the same model, and based on the Summoned Dahak in the Weeping City of Mhach we know that their name is "Dahak." A Moraby Mole and a Snapping Shrew are both moles, non? The same is true here.Quote:
Since I'm in the voidsent section, I presume entities like Anantaboga in Amdapor Keep NM are also dahak, along with the Valefors in Labyrinth of the Ancients?
Since Kuribu and Winged Lion are (so far) a unique golemization of statues, they remain unique in the bestiary due to the model difference. The only time different models are listed in the same Genus are when they're clearly stated to be the same creature in different life stages. Wamoura/campas, anzu and cockerels and pullets, etc. (And I mean, the way the bestiary is currently set up the young zu are listed are a different species than their mother, which is clearly probably not how real science works.)
DISCLAIMER: I AM NOT MOOSE. I just try to help him with this project and I know he's having a bit of technical issues lately so I'm trying to be useful! -
06-19-2016, 10:45 PMAnonymooseQuote:
Originally Posted by anubisgod89
Don't worry, the private version of the sheet has an extra tab for [Evidence For / Against] where I made sure to note everything from that debate, lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocl
As you could guess: Hippogryphs continue to be a headache. They seem related to Griffins, right? Just very mangy cloudkin? And yet I couldn't actually find any evidence of that when I tried to support it. Rather, I found more to the contrary - that they're griffin-like voidsent - essentially voidhounds. For starters, if you look at a griffin and hippo side-by-side, their biology isn't as similar as you'd expect. Their wings are in different positions and have different structures, and they don't even have the same number of digits (griffins have 2 toes, hippos have 3).
Next, you have where they appear - almost always alongside voidsent. Primary, back to 1.0, you find them in Coerthas, where plasmoids, bogies, and ogres, and in 2.0, tauri, wisps, and vodoriga, too, are pouring out of the caves. This extends into Mor Dhona, where they appear alongside plasmoids and ogres and have a FATE called Another Day, Another Demon. Notice that they aren't really a common sight in Northern Thanalan, either, ... until the Chimera shows up. Hippos also appear during Necrologos levequests, going all the way back to being the bosses of Lords of Skyey Realms and The Moons' Mistress of 1.0, and also popped up during the Black Mage quests. They turn up in Copperbell Mines (alongside bombs, ghosts, slimes, and wisps), Amdapor Keep (alongside ... just everything), and the Dzemael Darkhold (alongside bogies, ahriman, demons, gnats*, ogres, skeletons**, and a gargoyle. When it comes to treasure maps, they're filed away next to taurus, bomb, grenade, vodoriga, and ahriman.
The real anomaly is the Dravanian Forelands, where they seem to have nothing in common with anything. And the FATE Cerf's Up, in that very zone, says "Not quite a hippogryph and technically not a griffin, the hippocerf is the awkward little cousin in the lion-eagle hybrid family."
Like I said ... a headache. I don't recall Eorzeans making a claim either way, but I found more evidence towards voidsent than away from it (for now).
* Gnats were vilekin for all of 1.0 and have been voidsent for all of ARR. It bothers me and I haven't worked it out, yet.
** Skeletons are not voidsent, but ashkin. However, I believe ashkin to be corporeal remains of the dead animated by any outside force, and I believe that, oftentimes, that outside force is a low-ranking voidsent. I believe this to be especially true of skeletons and fell knights. Time will tell!
I strongly agree with you here. The megalotragus first appeared in Amdapor Keep, which is swarming with voidsent. But it did so at an early stage of the dungeon - the area where most dungeons are exhibiting mobs that just happened to wander in from outside. The only weird part was ... we've never seen one outside. They certainly look like "void-goats". Because there is now doubt on the nature of both the Amdapor and Aquapolis appearances, we must keep a very close eye out for the megalotragus' third appearance.Quote:
Originally Posted by anubisgod89
Funny story, Polis Griffin doesnt' appear with cloudkin, either. /tableflip
Correct. I called them Dahak at first, after FFXI, where they were summoned from the underworld by the Shadow Lord. However, I ended up changing the name to "Shadow Dragon" for clarity and because a Dahak had never actually appeared in XIV. One just showed up, though! \o/Quote:
Originally Posted by anubisgod89
Unfortunately, because Archaeoaevis is a name that was assigned to a red and black aevis in a Coerthas FATE. /tableflipQuote:
Originally Posted by Morningstar1337
Agreed. I'm caught between Jura (first appearance) and Bone (more accurate). I thought I was onto something when I noticed that black aevis mostly show up with the hate-filled minions of the Horde under Nidhogg, while the white aevis mostly show up relating to the heretics and their faith under Ysayle, who is closer-aligned (at last in her mind) with Hraesvelgr. But that doesn't seem to fully apply... Screw it, let's go with Jura for now. Meaning "one who has taken the oath", it seems fitting enough for now. [UPDATED]Quote:
Originally Posted by Morningstar1337
Agreed. Even for the sake of my own chosen naming conventions for the like of zombies, verge dragons, and golems, those are better names. At the same time, it seems like a good idea to change it now (for clarity and consistency), but a bad idea to change it now because (for now) there's only one example of that mob in the game at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Morningstar1337
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09-13-2016, 08:31 AMZarpd
*Waves hand from back of class* Ooo, oo oh! Teacher, teacher!
Hi~ Question!
I'm not a monsterologist, but I noticed a few little oddities and wondered how they came about.
1. Wouldn't artificially created life be classified as a bloodborn forgekin? I notice here ( http://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/wiki/Category:Bestiary ) the mirrorknight is listed as a forgekin, but on your list they are unclassified. What are your thoughts here?
2. Similarly, cyclops' are in your "unknown" category, where as they are voidsent on that list. Is this the same situation?
You've clearly put a lot of thought into this, so I have no idea which source is more reliable at this point! But either way I would love to hear your thoughts!
Thanks! -
09-13-2016, 08:54 AMAnonymooseThe main purpose of the master chart is actually to better inform the update of Gamer Escape's bestiary (a neverending project in and of itself). It's easier to track the generation and correction of errors this way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zarpd
As for the Mirrorknight (aka Owlbear), they, like most (all?) Chimeras, are technically dumped as a whole into the wastebasket taxon Unclassifiable by modern Eorzean naturalists (because of the inability to reach anything resembling consensus). Codex Alces needs a few such updates, but the lore book is coming soon and I'm looking forward to editing any revelations in at once. In the meantime, I'm focused on just keeping 100% of the entities in the game represented somewhere.
Quite right. There was no knowledge of the Allagan creations when that page was created, whereas Turn 7 seems to reveal their true origin. I believe them, like the minotaurs, to be Allagan bioweapons of Generation II or perhaps III, after they had sorted out the sterility factor but before progressing beyond brutish, uncontrollable abominations and prioritizing intelligence and obedience.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zarpd
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10-19-2017, 06:57 AMsciencebotQuote:
Originally Posted by sciencebot
The big things that make me think otherwise are the hands and the locales. The Ananta have regular human hands, the Anala have these giant claws with two thumbs and two fingers between. The tails are pretty different too, as well as the whole skull situation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mholito
Plus the Ananta are confined to a relatively average area of Gyr Abania, but when we first see the Anala it's all the way west to the middle of Dravania-- they're up in Sohm Al's depths -- and then when we see them again in Othard, they have the bulk of three continents between them. Which seems like a lot of travel for some dudes whose primary motivator seems to be "settin' stuff on fire"!
Typically other Spoken and tool-users like the Opken don't have quite as large a range unless they're out building boats or what have you. Usually the only things that make that kind of distance are flying creatures like Hydobus from Void Ark and its relatives in the Ruby Sea, swimming ones like abundance of crabs in either locale, or elemental or voidsent type situations.
Where that leaves us... I have no idea! They show up alongside the Anila, Dhara, and Apa in the Lost Canals, which seems like a selection of weird new elementals, but it's hard to be super sure about it on just that kind of evidence. It's pretty weak! Who knows? -
10-19-2017, 09:46 AMMholitoI believe the anala are an adaptation of a much more widespread species that has since gone extinct. My reason for that is because of the large distance between known colonies. Unless their capabilities for long-distance travel is much greater than it appears, I find it highly unlikely that all currently known colonies originated from the same area. Therefore, it seems more likely that certain groups of "proto-anala" either chose to move towards volcanic territories for some reason, or that they were already living there before the volcanoes appeared.Quote:
Originally Posted by sciencebot
There is also the possibility that they might be some kind of golem, though the fact that they wield weapons hint at a higher level of inteligence than what we've seen from golems so far. -
09-23-2019, 01:33 PMSatachan
Is this Project still active? I would like to contribute to this in any way possible
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09-23-2019, 03:06 PMAnonymoose
This was one of the time vampires I wasn't able to keep up with it in the transition from uni to grad school. I didn't sweat it much at the time because the lore books were covering a lot of the mobs, but I remember exactly how this was maintained (using a separate sheet that wasn't public) and I could fork the whole project into a public version if people wanted to keep it going. If you don't mind working with a very intimidating Google sheet, feel free to reach out to me in this quasi-abandoned Discord server.