That Garlean guy, what was his name? Gaius Van Baelsar

Outdated topic.

Nero actually fled after your battle with him as I recall, whereas Gaius was consumed by the explosions that ravaged the Castrum. You took the only perceivable escape route and Cid described flying into the area as an impossible absurdity. I can't think of anything or anyone whom could or would have saved him from that. Plus it seems to me like 3.0 brought about his "replacement" as far as the more hands-on Garlean antagonist position goes. I forget his name, but he's that guy whom you fought twice already that has a helmet which makes you wish someone would sneakily hook a crane on it from behind, raise it up and watch him swing and struggle just like that.

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Regula Van Hydrus
http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb2...la_Airship.png

I'd rather see Ala Mhigo be a cesspit as a result of being liberated - enforcing the idea that Gaius was right all along. Bringing him back from the dead would just be a kick in the teeth for those of us who are fond of Garlemald as a whole. As would having him be subservient to the WoL. We need antagonists who have sympathetic motives but aren't on our side - because it helps reinforce the point that the WoL is a tool that causes immense destruction and isn't necessarily pure or righteous.

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Originally Posted by DE-Roxas

That never stopped Final Fantasy from reviving possible dead characters :D Even if there is "no chance to escape"
I dont think hydrus have to be a replacement, since Gaius had a counterpart too, Nael van Darnus, so its more likely its not gonna be just one Bad Garlean Guy^^
I'm secretly hoping Gaius Van Baelsar survived and after he fought us he somehow change his mind and is on our side against the garlean forces in Ala Migho :D

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Except Gaius was right 100%. Would have defected ASAP. Now the new guy in charge of the Garleans. He's a total goofball.

Gods forfend we depict a struggle in which two forces are operating the same side of a clear-cut morality that ends up serving only to put them at odds with one another. How would the audience know who to root for?

Heavensward 3.0 Spoilers

Granted I never played any other FF other than A Realm Reborn, but personally I never really took to the idea that they'd bring him back. Before they essentially saved everyone that was supposed to have died in 2.55, I might have welcomed it, but since then I am a little put off by the idea of people actually being alive after you taking what was debatably a very obvious message that they had met their demise(Nanamo and Y'shtola completely shattered my heart, but at least one of them should have stayed dead to be honest, happy as I was to see both of them again). However, it's understandable why they would have saved important characters like those. Though my knowledge on lore isn't the best, let alone regarding anything preceding FFXIV, I struggle to believe that Gaius is anything worth bringing back strictly because he is a replaceable antagonist. The whole "Oh, you thought I was dead but I was really alive all along" is a very tired concept. I'm surprised they did that for 2-3 main Scions and Nanamo even considering later writing off Haurchefant, and personally, I hope they are willing to commit to serious deaths in the future - without getting carried away of course(3.2 has me seriously worried for Raubahn, haha).

In any case, personal hopes and feelings aside, I personally don't believe that it's something they'd really consider doing, but I guess you're right that it's not any more an impossibility than the Ul'dahn cave-in.

Until it's revealed that Gaius is, in fact, alive (which would be a deus ex machina), he is in fact dead. Just like Lahabrea.

Namamo's death was a big "hold the phone" moment anyway that had many (including me) calling BS immediately.

Most of us knew she didn't die. Y'shtola, Thancred, Yda, and Papalymo we knew were alive because The Braves were still looking for them.

Lord H's Death was a Prema-Death because our character litterally held him during his last breaths.

Iceheart and Moenbryda we know are dead because we watched them turn into Aether and disapate out selves.

Louisoix as well for any who bested Coil

So Gaius, we didn't see him die, we didn't recover a corpse, so he can't possibly be Prema-Dead. Not until we drag a corpse out of the Pretorium ruins will I buy it. Even his Helm and Gunblade won't convence me unless his skill is in the helmet.

I hope they keep the people dead that are supposedly dead. The copout with Ul'dah was pathetic.

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Originally Posted by Cilia

Until it's revealed that Gaius is, in fact, alive (which would be a deus ex machina), he is in fact dead. Just like Lahabrea.

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I'm not sold on Lahabrea being perma dead either buy that's just my preference to him over Elidibus as our main antagonistist.

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Originally Posted by Kaiser-Ace

I'm not sold on Lahabrea being perma dead either buy that's just my preference to him over Elidibus as our main antagonistist.

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I'll accept Lahabrea coming back if it means we get Eldibus as an actual ally.

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Originally Posted by DE-Roxas

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1.) There is no such thing as good or bad. People do what they believe. The adjectives good and bad are ideas created by mortals to describe the contrast of what they believe in versus what someone else believes in. People view themselves as good and their enemies as bad, and their enemies view themselves as good and them as bad.

2.) Nael was male. The version you see in t9 is not the real him. Which ties into...

3) Nael died 5 years before 2.0 even began. What you see in t9 is his essence, stitched together by the will of Bahamut by using pieces of Nael's memory as a template. One of the last images going through his mind at the time of his death was the unknown woman who obviously I'd tied to his past even if we don't know know who she was. He's essentially a ghost. The real him was killed by the WoL towards the end of the 1.0 story arc.

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Originally Posted by Fenral

I'll accept Lahabrea coming back if it means we get Eldibus as an actual ally.

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I'm still waiting for the punch line on Elidibus. Like him being us from the future or some other FF13-2 BS.

Really don't like how he seems to know more than even his own team but refuses to tell anyone anything. He's either going to turn out to be Future/Past WoL who is trying to end the cycle of destruction by any means necessary including wiping out existence ala Caius Ballad, or he's going to go completely Kupo Nuts on us and try and pull a Kefka meets Emperor Palamecia on us. Both of which will result in everything he's ever said being miss leading BS.

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Originally Posted by Kaiser-Ace

I'm still waiting for the punch line on Elidibus. Like him being us from the future or some other FF13-2 BS.

Really don't like how he seems to know more than even his own team but refuses to tell anyone anything.

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I'm pretty sure his deal is that they actually aren't all the same team. Beyond that is anyone's guess.

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Originally Posted by DE-Roxas

Maybe Hydaelyn is the true enemy after zodiac is defeated :D

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At worst, I expect some part of Hydaelyn's fundamental nature might end up putting us at odds, even as she continues to be classically good and mean well for everyone (as a unit, if not individually).

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Originally Posted by Kaiser-Ace

So Gaius, we didn't see him die, we didn't recover a corpse, so he can't possibly be Prema-Dead. Not until we drag a corpse out of the Pretorium ruins will I buy it. Even his Helm and Gunblade won't convence me unless his skill [sic] is in the helmet.

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So you demand a corpse tied to the bumper of your airship to confirm death?

... man, and I thought I was a sadist...

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Originally Posted by Cilia

So you demand a corpse tied to the bumper of your airship to confirm death?

... man, and I thought I was a sadist...

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I've just watched enough Anime to know a villan walking slowly towards the camera as his HQ blows up behind him rarely means they were defeated let alone killed. The fact that we don't know what he looked like under his helmet just proves we could still run into him. I'm still betting he's retreated to Ala Mihgo to resume his role as Imperial Vicroy. Possibly going compleatly Rouge and declaring himself King of Ala Mihgo.

Amusingly, until more recent events, I had a pet theory that Lahabrea, needing a body, took the broken and defeated Gaius and teleported out. Pretty sure that one is shot now.

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Originally Posted by ChazNatlo

Amusingly, until more recent events, I had a pet theory that Lahabrea, needing a body, took the broken and defeated Gaius and teleported out. Pretty sure that one is shot now.

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Except, he doesn't need one. Nabriales made it pretty clear that Ascians can just keep coming back from whatever. (Except if they're soaked into a sponge and blasted with a Care Bear stare)

Eh, we know Nabriales and Lahabrea differed in some way. (Lahabrea being "of this world" while Nabriales wasn't.) What that difference really is, or how it translates into differing abilities we don't know.

If Gaius truly isn't dead, he's doing a damn good job hiding that fact from even the rest of Garlemald, as the comments made by Varius and van Hydrus pretty much state that to them he perished. Although given the fact that Gaius was acting pretty much rogue from the Calamity to Operation Archon, and, despite ostensibly operating under their banner, was not actually under Garlemald's actual command, there was incentive for him to 'fake his death' so to speak and go to ground. This is why Nero after all fled the Praetorium after we kicked his butt, and ended up allying with us during the Crystal Tower storyline - he too was marked as a traitor to the Empire and was looking at a death sentence if he returned to Garlemald (Nero even actually said that the XIVth Legion is 'extinct' for all intents and purposes).

Given Gaius's last words though...

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Originally Posted by main scenario quest 'The Ultimate Weapon'

Gaius: "And so my conquest ends here Cid... in smoke and ashes..."

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...and the lack of any other proof that he survived that inferno, I'm liable to believe this trope is not in effect here.

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Originally Posted by Kaiser-Ace

Namamo's death was a big "hold the phone" moment anyway that had many (including me) calling BS immediately.

Most of us knew she didn't die. Y'shtola, Thancred, Yda, and Papalymo we knew were alive because The Braves were still looking for them.

Lord H's Death was a Prema-Death because our character litterally held him during his last breaths.

Iceheart and Moenbryda we know are dead because we watched them turn into Aether and disapate out selves.

Louisoix as well for any who bested Coil

So Gaius, we didn't see him die, we didn't recover a corpse, so he can't possibly be Prema-Dead. Not until we drag a corpse out of the Pretorium ruins will I buy it. Even his Helm and Gunblade won't convence me unless his skill is in the helmet.

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As far as I can tell, Nanamo was an expendable character as far as dramatic, pre-expansion, plot cliff-hangers go, so I think ruling it out was no more than personal speculation on your part. A whole lot of people, if not the majority, had presumed her dead.

Yda and Papalymo pretty much never had any suggestion of death surrounding them to begin with, so I don't know why anyone got that impression. Papalymo very clearly intended to survive and fight on another day and the look on their faces after annihilating the force of Blades before them only proved that they had succeeded in their intent and that nothing had gone wrong in the process. It'd be a ridiculous thing to say if they had full-well planned on taking everyone out with them through their final attack.

Thancred and Y'shtola were the only Scions who were 'owed' a death as there was no conceivable escape for them outside of a cop out excuse which, I am afraid to say, is the resulting aftermath - that is to say, UNLESS Minfillia played a hand in it which so far has not been shown to be the case. That said, it was my impression that Thancred and perhaps Y'shtola were too popular to kill off, so I was ready for such a thing to happen.

I never really bought into the idea that Nanamo would survive. I very much thought that the developers killed her off - along with many of the Scions - because they were keen on seeing through their promise of a 'darker' expansion. They delivered on that regard to some extent but until they stop shrouding the Scions and City State leaders in plot armour I fear they'll just build up side characters purely to kill them off instead. Death doesn't bother me when it's done well - I just dislike 'fake' deaths in excess which is why I don't want Gaius to return even though I love all things Garlemald.

I fell out of love with WoW's storytelling for precisely this reason - again and again the same select characters would defy all logic and consequences whilst the more fleshed out and arguably intriguing characters would be killed off instead.

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Originally Posted by Knahli

As far as I can tell, Nanamo was an expendable character as far as dramatic, pre-expansion, plot cliff-hangers go, so I think ruling it out was no more than personal speculation on your part. A whole lot of people, if not the majority, had presumed her dead.

Yda and Papalymo pretty much never had any suggestion of death surrounding them to begin with, so I don't know why anyone got that impression. Papalymo very clearly intended to survive and fight on another day and the look on their faces after annihilating the force of Blades before them only proved that they had succeeded in their intent and that nothing had gone wrong in the process. It'd be a ridiculous thing to say if they had full-well planned on taking everyone out with them through their final attack.

Thancred and Y'shtola were the only Scions who were 'owed' a death as there was no conceivable escape for them outside of a cop out excuse which, I am afraid to say, is the resulting aftermath - that is to say, UNLESS Minfillia played a hand in it which so far has not been shown to be the case. That said, it was my impression that Thancred and perhaps Y'shtola were too popular to kill off, so I was ready for such a thing to happen.

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Seriously? Not this again.....

If you look carefully at the cutscenes of 2.55. You will see small tips, situations that doesnt close with the rest and actions that doesnt make sence ( for ex: Lorolito killing Namamo would not have being good for him at a long term, he is bad, but not stupid. )
It seems everyone is forgetting the fact of the terrible loss we suffered on the Vault, that situations compense any kind of "reset - plot armor"things as you may call.

Also trust me, there was a lot of people that saw this and knew that Nanamo may not haven being died after all.

It's still a cop out. Especially since a large part of the speculation was due to Nanamo being tied to many quests and flavour text; thus she wouldn't easily be killed off. If we see Raubahn become unhinged and we put him down, however, then it won't be so bad - but if we don't then we literally lost nothing at all during 2.0's finale. I mean, we didn't need to be 'driven' to Ishgard to take refuge because...we would have gone there anyway due to the story progression.

I never assumed Nanamo dead and never assumed the Scions dead either. As Frederick said, there were enough subtle hints against it.
Especially anyone who paid attention to Lolorito throughout the course of the game already knew that it went completely against his character.

For Gaius, on the other hand, I'm pretty sure he's over for real.
Partially because of his own last words (he basically accepted the end), but also because he is still one of those relicts from 1.x.
ARR still heavily tied into what 1.x left us, discovering Bahamut, finding out about what happened to Louisoix and Nael, defeating the big bad of the original 1.0 scenario (Gaius), and so on.
But there's a point where you have to say "Okay, we finished this story, it's time to start a new chapter now.", and they did; they even killed off the old leader of Garlemald and crowned a new...whatever it's called..xD, Varis.

That said, Regul..us? Regula? (that closet Ravana fan, you know who I mean! xD) is not even remotely as charismatic as our former Garlean leaders .-.
I remember back when I first had defeated Ifrit, still all happy and suddenly Nael walks in and just obliterates everything in his path..not to mention just how crazy and creepy he turned out to be later on.
Gaius, still shuddering at how he singlehandedly defeated the whole Ala Migho resistance army, and still being this guy you can't hate because he IS the voice of reason in the whole scenario °-°
Nero and his stupid but somewhat endearing rivalry with Cid who you befriend in the end, and even Livia, with her weird love/fangirl(?) relationship with Gaius - all of them really felt like interesting characters one could care about.

Regulus is more like..that Roebro dude nobody ever remembers from the ARR scenario xD
He feels really cannon fodderish right now ._. No interesting character, no cool intro feats..heck, we know more about Varis and his values already even before entering Ishgard than we do about Regula/us after fighting him and meeting him again and again.

But still.
I want well-written new villains, not the old ones reappearing. Gaius is a great guy, but it's good that he's dead.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

if we don't then we literally lost nothing at all during 2.0's finale.

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Just to be devil's advocate for a moment, Raubahn hasn't exactly regrown his arm. I'd rather not have someone Die For Real to make up for the fact that the writers have no idea how to handle a capable warrior (and a bodyguard, no less) becoming irreparably handicapped.

Or maybe that's this next patch. It kinda needs to be addressed soon.

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Originally Posted by Fenral

Just to be devil's advocate for a moment, Raubahn hasn't exactly regrown his arm. I'd rather not have someone Die For Real to make up for the fact that the writers have no idea how to handle a capable warrior (and a bodyguard, no less) becoming irreparably handicapped.

Or maybe that's this next patch. It kinda needs to be addressed soon.

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Being a Retired Gladiator, EX member of The Ala Mihgan Resistance Army (along side Illberd), General of The Immortal Flames, AND surrogate Father/Bodyguard to Nanamo, I don't think losing his arm is going to slow him down much. He seemed to dual Illberd with only one arm for quite a while to stall for our escape. And likly only lost due to blood loss.

I have a feeling we will learn more about the fallen legates eventually, either through sidequests or a garlean focused expansion. Gaius especially has played a big part in garlemalds mission and we will likely hear more about him later on as he would be regarded as a hero in the empire (more from the people and military than the upper class however), even eorzean leaders recognized his abilities.

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Originally Posted by Kaiser-Ace

I've just watched enough Anime to know a villan walking slowly towards the camera as his HQ blows up behind him rarely means they were defeated let alone killed. The fact that we don't know what he looked like under his helmet just proves we could still run into him. I'm still betting he's retreated to Ala Mihgo to resume his role as Imperial Vicroy. Possibly going compleatly Rouge [sic] and declaring himself King of Ala Mihgo.

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OK, but... this isn't an anime?

They probably just cut the camera off when they did as a matter of discretion (and engine limitations). I'm pretty sure you don't want to watch Gaius get blown into charred chunks of meat, which, engine limitations aside, is likely what happened. So there probably isn't an identifiable corpse to recover, because he's... you know. Charred chunks of meat.

Seriously. I thought we had moved past the "Bring me his head!" that was so prevalent in MMOs for the longest time.

Now, I'm not ruling out the possibility that he survived and proceeded to [do whatever]. Just saying it's highly improbable. Very highly improbable. "Requires a deus ex machina" improbable.

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Originally Posted by Cilia

Until it's revealed that Gaius is, in fact, alive (which would be a deus ex machina), he is in fact dead. Just like Lahabrea.

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Err, lahabrea isn't dead, he's locked inside thordan's sword that's all.

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Originally Posted by Phyllo

Error, lahabrea isn't dead, he's locked inside thordan's sword that's all.

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Again, while that is a distinct possibility, the story presents itself as if he is dead and gone for good. Thordan didn't just eat his aether, he blasted him apart first and then absorbed it. Quite a bit. I think the Quest Log states he was "felled" or somesuch, and Elidibus states that he and Igeyorhm had "fallen" - and with him stating they're both in the same situation, with Igeyorhm 100% "we know she's totes dead and six feet under," that means Lahabrea is very likely dead. Permanently.

Now, again, it's possible this isn't true. More probable than Gaius still being alive. Still rather improbable, though, given everything against it.

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Originally Posted by Fenral

Just to be devil's advocate for a moment, Raubahn hasn't exactly regrown his arm. I'd rather not have someone Die For Real to make up for the fact that the writers have no idea how to handle a capable warrior (and a bodyguard, no less) becoming irreparably handicapped.

Or maybe that's this next patch. It kinda needs to be addressed soon.

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Irreparable? In a world with Magic, Magitek, Gobbietech, and Allagan stuff?

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Originally Posted by Phyllo

Err, lahabrea isn't dead, he's locked inside thordan's sword that's all.

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Cilia is actually right Phyllo -

Lahabrea truly is dead. He isn't 'locked inside the Eye of Nidhogg', when King Thordan slashed him with Ascalon he was turned into aether which, being a Primal, Thordan absorbed and consumed as energy to sustain himself. Thordan clearly states this in his big 'the reason you suck speech' to Lahabrea in that scene:

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Originally Posted by FFXIV Heavensward main scenario quest 'Heavensward'

King Thordan: "Your contempt for man has proven your undoing Ascian. As my first act as god-king, I do hereby sentence you to die."
Lahabrea: "What?!"
(King Thordan slashes Lahabrea with one stroke and destroys him)
Lahabrea: "Aaaaaaargggh!!!!"
(Lahabrea dissipates into his dark aether and coalesces around the Eye within the blade's hilt before disappearing, not the usual votex style warp out effect when Ascians teleport away, but instead he just... fades away)
King Thordan: "Gods feed upon aether. It matters not what form that aether takes. Ascian souls are no exception. With this power, I shall put an end to a thousand years of conflict."
King Thordan: "Be they sown by Ascian, dragon or Primal, wheresoever the seeds of chaos threaten to quicken, I shall excise them with my divine blade and bring order to the world."

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Also considering this was pretty much the same fate that befell the Sahagin Elder way back in Through the Maelstrom where he gained Ascian-like transcendence only to become a tasty aetheric snack for Leviathan and be absorbed as aether, one may think Lahabrea's ultimate demise had been planned all along. ;)

Either way, like disco, it seems to me that both Gaius and Lahabrea are dead and they are never coming back.

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Originally Posted by Cilia

Now, I'm not ruling out the possibility that he survived and proceeded to [do whatever]. Just saying it's highly improbable. Very highly improbable. "Requires a deus ex machina" improbable.

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I know it's unlikely. But Fenral will always hope we reopen the Crystal Tower, and, for now at least, I'll keep hoping Gaius Lived.

Gaius was just too good a villan to be replaced by the cartoon villians that we're starting to get.

Darklander: "we are The Warriors of Darkness!!" <Teleports off>

Krile: "Warriors of Darkness? Really?"

Me: Yea, since when was this a cartoon?

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Originally Posted by Kaiser-Ace

I know it's unlikely. But Fenral will always hope we reopen the Crystal Tower, and, for now at least, I'll keep hoping Gaius Lived.

Gaius was just too good a villan to be replaced by the cartoon villians that we're starting to get.

Darklander: "we are The Warriors of Darkness!!" <Teleports off>

Krile: "Warriors of Darkness? Really?"

Me: Yea, since when was this a cartoon?

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You forget why he is called Derplander. And he's very fitting copy of us considering how most of the players are in the game *cough*

Under normal circumstances I'd accept lahabrea's death given the facts and all but seriously, we killed thordan yet the sword remains? That's beyond obviousness that something is up xD

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Originally Posted by Phyllo

Under normal circumstances I'd accept lahabrea's death given the facts and all but seriously, we killed thordan yet the sword remains? That's beyond obviousness that something is up xD

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But God-King Thorden simply changed the Aether in Haldrith's body to become The Ascalon Blade. The sword wasn't actually part of Thorden's Primal form.

And I don't think the eye consumed Lahabrea, I think Thorden himself consumed the Aether of Lahabrea's soul.

BUT the real question is. did The Ascalon Blade consume Thorden's Aether? With Nidhogg's Eye at it's center it could very well have fed off the Aether before it returned to the land.

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Originally Posted by DE-Roxas

Hes totally coming back isnt he :D

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Not even SE can kill off Best Ascian for long.

And when he does, he will be greeted with a few shrieks of happiness from the lore forums. Or really, maybe just mine.

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Originally Posted by CyrilLucifer

Not even SE can kill off Best Ascian for long.

And when he does, he will be greeted with a few shrieks of happiness from the lore forums. Or really, maybe just mine.

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I'd be happy. That bastard Thorden stole my kill. I need a proper Rematch. (Again)

Check this out. In 3.3 Raubahn will get a mechanical magitek arm from Cid and he'll change his name to Bull Snake and help Yugiri's ninja spy on his enemies.