About Plot selling

Just gonna leave it here since i dont know where else to post xD

i'm slowly starting to get pissed about people selling housing plots all the time, like for example, camping housing wards all of the time to buy each new released plot and resell it for laughable prices, without starting to run sells or idk what other .... shit etc its not really possable to get a house anymore and even with new wards release people will do the same there to piss up others just to make gil.....
it really shouldnt be allowed and takes kind of every fun out of the housing

sorry for the confused writing style of the text but didn't know really how to explain lol also cos first time using the forum xD

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Originally Posted by Lyci

Just gonna leave it here since i dont know where else to post xD

i'm slowly starting to get pissed about people selling housing plots all the time, like for example, camping housing wards all of the time to buy each new released plot and resell it for laughable prices, without starting to run sells or idk what other .... shit etc its not really possable to get a house anymore and even with new wards release people will do the same there to piss up others just to make gil.....
it really shouldnt be allowed and takes kind of every fun out of the housing

sorry for the confused writing style of the text but didn't know really how to explain lol also cos first time using the forum xD

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This is exactly what happens in ArcheAge. AA has limited land due to the open world nature; SE just cba to invest in extra ward instances.

I wish that new wards opened up as needed. Much like how new pages of a FC's personal room open up as more personal rooms are built.
So if Ward 16 fills all plots and subplots, then Ward 17 opens up. The only downside to this plan is that if you want a large house, you may be waiting a while... I suppose there's no perfect solution other than opening up 1000+ wards right away.

This would help curb reselling (which is a violation of terms anyway, isn't it?) as there's always something going for the games set price.

Pretty sure buying up plots and reselling them for obscenely high prices has gotten a few people in trouble.

If someone's doing it repeatedly, just start reporting them every time they put up a PF or shout about it.

On my server i see the same people each secound day or each day selling plots in div wards etc,
also i asked a gm about it and couldn't give me a real answer about, kinda just to start a thread on forum lol

Yeah, I made a thread about it and somewhere in the thread I called the people that bought and resold all the plots on christmas an inappropriate name, think Donkey + center of doughnut. Bam. Banned for 2 weeks.

screenshot and report all house sellers I say

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Originally Posted by Saccharin

This is exactly what happens in ArcheAge. AA has limited land due to the open world nature; SE just cba to invest in extra ward instances.

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Archeage is different, land is a lot more abundant than FFXIV and there's a way to set plots for sale at a certain price, there's also no trading cap. Also there's a tax system so people will actually lose their houses. (1 week to pay taxes, 1 week before it demos if no taxes by the end of week 1)

Also, if you set your house at a ridiculous price nobody will buy it.

Archeage has a pretty great housing system since if I have money I can just go browse housing areas and buy houses directly 100% safely. FFXIV outlaws selling houses and that's not fair if you have money since your money is useless unless you can log in as soon as a new housing ward is released.

Send a harassment report and explain they are selling plots. I contacted a GM about it both times and they responding telling me it is an offense followed by the PF being closed each time.

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Originally Posted by Canadane

I wish that new wards opened up as needed. Much like how new pages of a FC's personal room open up as more personal rooms are built.
So if Ward 16 fills all plots and subplots, then Ward 17 opens up. The only downside to this plan is that if you want a large house, you may be waiting a while... I suppose there's no perfect solution other than opening up 1000+ wards right away.

This would help curb reselling (which is a violation of terms anyway, isn't it?) as there's always something going for the games set price.

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There's apparently an issue with housing taking up a ton of space.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie-Amber

screenshot and report all house sellers I say

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GMs won't accept screenshots as they say they can be altered easily but if you give them the time which you saw the shout/PF listing they can look it up on their end to find it.

what about the people who bought houses the normal wait but want to transfer servers or upgrade to a bigger plot? they could give excess Gil to friends or the free company they are in ext.

Clearly, this is no longer an option. I shudder to think of the consequences of buying something on the market board and relisting it at a higher price.

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Originally Posted by Amirya

Clearly, this is no longer an option. I shudder to think of the consequences of buying something on the market board and relisting it at a higher price.

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That's the market board, which we're given free use of.
The houses are not a free market.

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Originally Posted by Dogempire

There's apparently an issue with housing taking up a ton of space.

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It's because the housing servers are large persistent zones rather than small instanced things like a private room.
If you notice within the guild houses you can have the little private rooms for days but the actual neighborhoods take a lot of resources to maintain

It's why they are planning those motel type things, i think they called them mansions, where it's just a preset building where tons of people can just get little instanced private quarters that aren't really part of a persistent neighborhood

The housing situation is a bit of shame though. it seems like the devs did everything they could to make it unappealing to speculation but it still happens, i guess if buyers are dumb enough to pay a guy to demo his plot and hope no one is around to scoop it up before he can there will be sellers to capitalize on it

if people really wanna sell houses/plots etc should have a marketboard type feature but as an auction people can bid whatever they want aslong as each house size has a minimum and maximum amount allowed and it closes after a week/ 2 weeks

Anyone else remember the "purge" that SE did like maybe 2 months into 2.0 release? It's one reason I don't try too hard to make gil (since can't buy especially much with it anyway).

People put all kinds of effort into making money. This guy I knew didn't even level a battle job at launch, he just put everything into crafting and selling etc.

SE shut down the servers for maintenance and anyone with more than just a handfull of gil got it reset down to nothing. They never gave any of it back to those people either. Apparently this was due to a influx of RMT action on the server.

You have to be responsible with who you sell to. If someone pays you for your wares with gil that is dirty (IE, purchased from RMT) the player accepting the payment is considered responsible as I understand.

All the more reason to worry if someone is selling a plot they own. If someone is handing you millions of gil for a house, what are the odds that they are giving you dirty gil (RMT gil)? It's not a low chance right? It's not a safe thing to do.

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Originally Posted by Cherie

You have to be responsible with who you sell to. If someone pays you for your wares with gil that is dirty (IE, purchased from RMT) the player accepting the payment is considered responsible as I understand.

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That would be patently unfair as the person receiving the gil has no way of knowing where it came from. Anyone that's sold cheap low level gear on the market board may have sold it to RMT. Anyone that's bought shards off the MB has probably supported RMT. Money from RMT is pervasive as all get-out. It ends up in everyone's pockets at some point or another just through the process of gil being circulated through the economy. You can't avoid it unless you completely avoid buying and selling with other players.

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All the more reason to worry if someone is selling a plot they own. If someone is handing you millions of gil for a house, what are the odds that they are giving you dirty gil (RMT gil)? It's not a low chance right? It's not a safe thing to do.

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You're acting like the only way to have "millions of gil" is to purchase it from RMT. I assure you, this is not the case.

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Originally Posted by Cherie

If someone pays you for your wares with gil that is dirty (RMT) the player accepting the payment is considered responsible as I understand... Its not a safe thing to do.

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I don't know about the seller being responsible for "dirty gil" as a crafter I have crafted and sold thousands of items both via Mb and person to person sales. Will I get punished for making and selling an item to someone using RMT Gil? If so how am I going vet each client I interact with? There is no system in the game to do so only word of mouth and I dont see people freely admitting to buying Gil. I would say if people do get punished that is very wrong of a system that gives no way for people to check their sources. If I turned down every client that I didn't know where their Gil came from I would only make items for like 3 people.

Its unfortunate that there is a housing shortage, but lets not get into fear mongering.

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Originally Posted by Cherie

SE shut down the servers for maintenance and anyone with more than just a handfull of gil got it reset down to nothing. They never gave any of it back to those people either. Apparently this was due to a influx of RMT action on the server.

You have to be responsible with who you sell to. If someone pays you for your wares with gil that is dirty (IE, purchased from RMT) the player accepting the payment is considered responsible as I understand.

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I am not a SE apologist. But the people who had gil taken was fishy. They are not telling you everything and SE is not saying. Some of the crafters were circumventing the MB and some were using macro software to craft. Some people with 10+ mill punished some not. It was not a blanket situation.

So throwing that info out isn't the best example. SE though has been very shady/quiet about how some assets of this game work. Which has led to some misunderstandings. Like why after all this time an official post about how to handle house resale?

Trying to punish players for selling plots to each other is just a poor bandaid for the housing system itself, without the option it just makes it worse, since some people, me included, aren't going to just give it up for some stranger if they can't get anything out of it at all.

I was up at 3am on Christmas day waiting for housing reclaim to hit and sat for around 13 - 14 hours in Mists waiting for houses to pop checking back on the game occasionally, I managed to get one, 30 minutes later I saw there were still a lot of small plots available in some wards so decided "why not", and had an FC mate help me trade gil over to my alt character and bought a second house that day. I haven't been using the houses as much as I had expected to so now my alt's house especially is just sitting idle, useless to the game aside from being a place I occasionally teleport to to use the Mender to repair.

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Now if I'm not allowed to sell it, I'm keeping it permanently since I have no incentive whatsoever to give it up. For the amount of time and effort it took to get the house I'm not going to allow it to be reclaimed by the server to get a small sum of gil back either, 4 - 5 mil is a joke for what it takes to actually get a house in this game.

So then, there is one player with two houses, one currently (nearly) unused in a great spot in Mists that's going to stay pseudo-vacant until the end of time because according to SE I'm not allowed to get rid of it in a way that doesn't feel like it hurts me. I don't consider it to be greedy of me to be unwilling to take a hit for a stranger on the internet I'll probably never meet knowing maybe one day I actually will find something to do with it, but instead of being able to just sell it and have it out of my hands permanently to not need to think about anymore, it's stuck.

You pressed a button in a video game and now think you deserve more than 80% of your imaginary game currency back for it, and then instead of just accepting that you would rather either gouge another player or just hoard it on a character you rarely use it on. That, um, is the absolute epitomy of greed. It doesn't harm you. At all. You perceive harm because you feel entitlement. Because you're greedy. You bought a second house after you all ready had one. Because you're greedy. You admittedly don't use it, but don't want to give it up. Because you're greedy.

TL;DR - You're greedy.

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Originally Posted by Judah_Brandt

TL;DR - You're greedy.

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This. So much this.

My ingame wife wanted to buy a house for us, she really tried to safe alot of gil (she dont allow me to help her <.<), she dont has a high crafter or anything, made gil just by stuff she got from story, leves and then wrote someone who wanted to sell a plot and my wife was like ;-; O_O, just for to release the plot wanted 10mil <.< and it was just a small one...... so 15mil for a small house.....no thanks

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Originally Posted by Lyci

My ingame wife wanted to buy a house for us, she really tried to safe alot of gil (she dont allow me to help her <.<), she dont has a high crafter or anything, made gil just by stuff she got from story, leves and then wrote someone who wanted to sell a plot and my wife was like ;-; O_O, just for to release the plot wanted 10mil <.< and it was just a small one...... so 15mil for a small house.....no thanks

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Whoever tried to sell you a small house for 15 million was probably the owner of few other houses. On my server we had a player who bought multiple houses and advertised them across the pf. I'm under the impression they were banned but the prices were about the same 10 million for a small 25 million for a medium and 50 for a large.

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Originally Posted by Judah_Brandt

You pressed a button in a video game and now think you deserve more than 80% of your imaginary game currency back for it, and then instead of just accepting that you would rather either gouge another player or just hoard it on a character you rarely use it on. That, um, is the absolute epitomy of greed. It doesn't harm you. At all. You perceive harm because you feel entitlement. Because you're greedy. You bought a second house after you all ready had one. Because you're greedy. You admittedly don't use it, but don't want to give it up. Because you're greedy.

TL;DR - You're greedy.

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This attitude really isn't helpful in the least. I take it if you logged in to find you had zero gil in your account tomorrow you wouldn't complain right? Because to complain would mean you were feeling "entitlement" to your "imaginary game currency".

The fact is it would be in SE's interests to give players a legitimate means to either sell houses directly to other players or get the relinquished 80% value back at will (not after 45 days). They need to encourage players to give up plots they don't want, and imposing tighter and tighter restrictions on players relinquishing their plots is only going to make the shortage WORSE as they will not willingly give up a plot only to lose the huge investment they put into it.

SE's flip-flopping stance on the issue really hasn't helped either as they have been directly quoted as saying this was fine back when housing first released. They only turned into a crime after they screwed up the auto-demolish so badly and the same people bought every house just to resell them. They SHOULD have put an account limit of one house prior to the demolition.

There is nothing greedy about refusing to give up a plot you saved up to buy when you stand only to lose your gil by doing so. A lot of the people selling their plots legitimately want rid of it for one of any number of good reasons. To give you just a few, they may be: transferring servers, moving house, leaving the game for longer than three months (the auto-reclaimed gil only sits for one month so if you know you'll be gone longer you HAVE to sell it). In these cases the players selling the plot do not WANT to price gouge other players, they simply want to get back the gil they invested. You cannot blame people for that.

If anyone here sounds 'entitled' it is you for demanding players willingly sacrifice their investment just so you can get a house now, now, now. The problem here is NOT the people selling the houses; it's the broken system that doesn't even allow it legitimately in the first place.

So, according to some people on this thread, if a dude with a private house wants to do a server transfer, he has three choices:
- Wait 45 days for the reclaim system to kick in,
- Transfer immediatly and lose everything,
- Transfer immediatly and get banned because he sold his plot to someone else.

In short terms, no matter what, that guy is screwed.

Yes, but the problem is you aren't selling your plot to another player you are simply selling the information that you are about to relinquish it which allows them to be ready when the game puts the house up for auction
If Square allowed players to get the 80% back when transferring to another server there would be nothing stopping the transferring player from making a few million extra by taking the 80% and at the same time, advertising the plot for 'sale'.

The whole system needs an overhaul. If supply was adequate then this situation would never have developed. However, until every player who wants a house can get one without resorting to paying twice this gouging is going to continue.
There is already a thread on Reddit where people wanting to 'sell' are being advised how best to avoid getting warnings or bans.

A limit on the number of houses that can be owned by an individual might go some way towards stopping the speculators.

There's no in-game system to sell your house. The closest thing is the 45 day reclaim, and that's been recent. When you bought your house you did so with the expectation of having no recourse to get that investment back. It is a sunk cost. Now you can even let it idle for 45 days and get 80% back. That's great. Do that.

I'd be for adding a "i want to demolish my house now" button for the 80%, since it's there already. Why force people trying to transfer servers to idle 45 days? Before that system was added, though, I would have said that wanting any money back for it at all is entitled.

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Originally Posted by Alberel

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I wish I could like your post more than once.

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Originally Posted by Fyce

So, according to some people on this thread, if a dude with a private house wants to do a server transfer, he has three choices:
- Wait 45 days for the reclaim system to kick in,
- Transfer immediatly and lose everything,
- Transfer immediatly and get banned because he sold his plot to someone else.

In short terms, no matter what, that guy is screwed.

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Shhh it doesn't matter if house owners get screwed, so long as THEY get what THEY want in the end! To think otherwise makes US greedy!

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Originally Posted by Alberel

In these cases the players selling the plot do not WANT to price gouge other players, they simply want to get back the gil they invested. You cannot blame people for that.

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Investment in what? The plot itself or all the stuff you put in the house? I can see people wanting the gil back they paid for the house but all the stuff they put into the house take it with you, what you can cause I know some stuff can't or don't. Don't try to pass that off the the person you trying to sell the give up rights to cause you not giving them all those items also.

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Originally Posted by Fyce

So, according to some people on this thread, if a dude with a private house wants to do a server transfer, he has three choices:
- Wait 45 days for the reclaim system to kick in,
- Transfer immediatly and lose everything,
- Transfer immediatly and get banned because he sold his plot to someone else.

In short terms, no matter what, that guy is screwed.

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I doubt you would receive any sort of punishment if you sold your house at or around market value. I believe the default price was 4M for a small house? So if you PF'd that, you can easily justify you simply want to upgrade or transfer servers. What SE is against is players attempting gouge others by selling plots for exorbitant prices or purposely buying multiple plots via alts.

It does make you greedy when you're trying to get back the gil you invested in something that's not even meant to be profitable, but something to sink money in and maintain for a long term, it's rather expected to you will loose money when getting rid of it, this is exactly like real life housing,

The problem here is SE housing system as it is;

-Houses should be account wide (able to be accessed from all your characters)
-Only 1 house should be allowed per player
-You should be able to switch houses more easily (like when you buy a new plot, your old one get's demolished and you get a discount in the new one)
-You should be able to demolish your house if you want to, without waiting 45 days

House selling by players shouldn't be allowed anyway, it creates a bad market.

I hope people who hoard more than one house for themselves or who try to sell a small plot for 15 mil step on lego.

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Originally Posted by Mael-bess

It does make you greedy when you're trying to get back the gil you invested in something that's not even meant to be profitable, but something to sink money in and maintain for a long term, it's rather expected to you will loose money when getting rid of it, this is exactly like real life housing,

The problem here is SE housing system as it is;

-Houses should be account wide (able to be accessed from all your characters)
-Only 1 house should be allowed per player
-You should be able to switch houses more easily (like when you buy a new plot, your old one get's demolished and you get a discount in the new one)
-You should be able to demolish your house if you want to, without waiting 45 days

House selling by players shouldn't be allowed anyway, it creates a bad market.

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No offense, but have you ever heard of house flipping in real life? The potential mark up on real estate ventures is extraordinary if you have the available cash to gamble the market. Purchase a fixer up at a fraction of the cost, have construction done and resell it sometime thereafter. You can turn a profit several thousand beyond your initial investment. That is not greed-- just simple economics. People wanting a return on their investment in-game is comparable to the aforementioned. Granted, most go well above making a little profit or merely wanting to recoup their losses. While I agree with your solution, as it stands, you're demanding a lot of people to essentially give up millions of gil under the current system.

• The 80% refund and your stuff being reclaimable should apply when you relinquish a house, without needing to wait for the 45 day automatic version.
• When you relinquish a house, there should be a random interval (perhaps anywhere between 1 and 72 hours) before the plot goes back up on the market. This lowers the value of information about relinquishing it, discouraging the type of "selling" currently leading to hoarding problems.
• Resident Caretaker should store stuff indefinitely. There's no reason for that to be a limited time feature, and limiting it just encourages people to keep houses they're no longer using because otherwise they'd need to find a place to put their housing stuff until they're ready to buy another.
• The furnishings etc. that you get back should include all items from the house without that stupid rule about some not being reclaimable. (Again, not only is it more fair that way and allow for things like redecorating, but loss of them encourages people keeping houses they aren't using.)
• When you buy a personal house, it should become the personal house of all alts on that account on that server. All alts would have full ownership privileges, but be unable to buy other personal houses without relinquishing the first one. (This would change who can have a house. I'd propose that the current rule about needing to be level 50 and 2nd Lt apply just to the character who makes the purchase, but not be needed for other alts using it. Another alternative would be that other alts only gain full ownership rights (decorating, use of gardens, stables, etc.) once they, too, meet the requirements.)

That last one (though it would have been a good rule to set in the first place) would be the hardest to add at this point, just because they'd need a way to deal with all the accounts that currently have multiple houses. There's no obvious way to determine which of them the player would keep as their account-wide personal house. All the other changes listed should be relatively straightforward to add, though, and would be helpful even without that last one.

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

Pretty sure buying up plots and reselling them for obscenely high prices has gotten a few people in trouble.

If someone's doing it repeatedly, just start reporting them every time they put up a PF or shout about it.

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Indeed, Someone posted a complaint topic about this recently because they felt unfairly disciplined, because they sold their plot (that they had bought genuinely, but never had time to actually use.

Personally though, I feel that if you bought a plot and subsequently realize you can't use it, then relinquish it. In fact, since SE is giving absentee land lords 80% of their investment back, I don't think it's too unfair to suggest that when players relinquish their plot of land back to the system they should get some proportion of their investment back, perhaps 60% rather than 80% since they don't have to wait 45 days. That might help control the plot reselling via PF. Certainly it would remove one of the excuses people use to justify gouging players for a plot of land.

Oh, just noticed Niwashi's suggestion above, and I agree, but would reduce the returned gil to 60% because you don't have to wait for 45 days.

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Originally Posted by Niwashi

When you buy a personal house, it should become the personal house of all alts on that account on that server. All alts would have full ownership privileges, but be unable to buy other personal houses without relinquishing the first one. (This would change who can have a house. I'd propose that the current rule about needing to be level 50 and 2nd Lt apply just to the character who makes the purchase, but not be needed for other alts using it. Another alternative would be that other alts only gain full ownership rights (decorating, use of gardens, stables, etc.) once they, too, meet the requirements.)

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Yes, this would be excellent, and the system needs to be able to allow players to own one 'personal' house and one Free Company house, since otherwise FC masters are screwed.

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Originally Posted by Niwashi

That last one (though it would have been a good rule to set in the first place) would be the hardest to add at this point, just because they'd need a way to deal with all the accounts that currently have multiple houses. There's no obvious way to determine which of them the player would keep as their account-wide personal house. All the other changes listed should be relatively straightforward to add, though, and would be helpful even without that last one.

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It could be done by messaging the player, ask the payer to choose which home they want to keep, refund 100% of the gil spend on the others, and store all related furnishings with the residential Caretaker indefinitely for the player to recover.

It's ridiculous that the only way to recoup any investment in a house is to wait 45 days (without entering). While this released a backlog of inactive plots, it does nothing to ease the ongoing housing shortage. It's also the direct reason for the wave of flipping.

Eorzea needs a real estate brokerage! List your property for sale! The broker takes a fee (removes gil from the game) of 20%. Once you list, you cannot delist and the system starts a reverse auction, lowering the price (like it does for new plot sales) until it sells.

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Originally Posted by KaitlanKela

There's no in-game system to sell your house. The closest thing is the 45 day reclaim, and that's been recent. When you bought your house you did so with the expectation of having no recourse to get that investment back. It is a sunk cost. Now you can even let it idle for 45 days and get 80% back. That's great. Do that.

I'd be for adding a "i want to demolish my house now" button for the 80%, since it's there already. Why force people trying to transfer servers to idle 45 days? Before that system was added, though, I would have said that wanting any money back for it at all is entitled.

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To be fair selling houses was A-OK back when housing first launched so people were buying in the knowledge that they could recoup some of that gil from another player if they decided to give up the plot. It's only since the auto-demolish disaster that the GMs reversed their stance on the issue due to so many people buying purely to resell.

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Originally Posted by Lexia

Investment in what? The plot itself or all the stuff you put in the house? I can see people wanting the gil back they paid for the house but all the stuff they put into the house take it with you, what you can cause I know some stuff can't or don't. Don't try to pass that off the the person you trying to sell the give up rights to cause you not giving them all those items also.

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I'm talking purely about the gil invested in buying the plot. Most furnishings and such you can take with you so I doubt many people are even factoring that in.