Lore book? Why not a Lore Database App for FFXIV?

Releasing a book is like when hardware is released. It will become outdated as soon as it is released. I know there are plans for a lore book and all, but there can only be so much lore to fit in a book as to not make it extremely big, heavy, and expensive. So why is there not a plan for the Devs and Fern to release a database app for FFXIV that has the lore in it? It could also contain some of the lore from 1.0 as well as 2.x and up to 3.x, but can be updated with more content as more patches are released as well as expansion packs.

The current lore book that we will be getting may come with a minion just to satisfy us, but if the content of the lore is going to be continuously churned out in upcoming patches, would it not be logical to have a lore database app with all the juicy details of the history and whatnot for FFXIV? Plus if there were to be any written errors, the lore database app can easily be updated and fixed with a hotfix/patch to correct it. Think about it. Would you like to carry a big, heavy book to read from everywhere you go to, or would you want something digital to read on your smartphone/tablet?

Tagging Anony Moose and Fern for this thread if it can be an idea.

First time I hear of the lore book (where can I buy that?! I NEED it xD), but yeah, that kind of app would be great. Wouldn't have to be free, I'd totally pay for it :)

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Originally Posted by Naraku_Diabolos

Think about it. Would you like to carry a big, heavy book to read from everywhere you go to, or would you want something digital to read on your smartphone/tablet?

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Sorry, I'm one of those analog people who love real books and get a completely different feeling from an actual book than from an app xD
Can't we have both?
An actual book makes me feel more part of this world, like I'm sitting down and reading through an old legends book from Eorzea :o
It's different from pulling out my smartphone, searching for some keywords in the app and quickly checking some lore on the go.

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Originally Posted by Naraku_Diabolos

Would you like to carry a big, heavy book to read from everywhere you go to, or would you want something digital to read on your smartphone/tablet?

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Because I can't stand doing heavy reading on phones and I don't have and never plan on buying a tablet. I quite like having a physical copy of my books.

Also, let's be realistic: They can charge more for a physical book.

I didn't know that it's not available via digital downloads.

I agree, there should be a type of app like FF 14 Libra that's actively updated. I do feel like there will be alot of lore that's cut off from the books to save space, but at the same time I hope they could add in new information.

I agree with wanting to own a physical book. I have a TON of books as it is that my bookshelf in my bedroom can't hold anymore. I have so many that I have to stack them on my floor. Tis only temporary since I just finished school in the fall and need to get more money to move out in this year. But think about it, would you rather have a book that it's content is not current, or something that is continuously updating like an application? It doesn't have to be on your smartphone. It can be used on your iPad/Android tablet as well.

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Originally Posted by CyrilLucifer

Because I can't stand doing heavy reading on phones and I don't have and never plan on buying a tablet. I quite like having a physical copy of my books.

Also, let's be realistic: They can charge more for a physical book.

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But do you want to kill more trees? D: I know more revenue can be made from books, but a TON of purchases can be made digitally to generate revenue quicker. I mean, what if the books are limited in numbers when first released, just like the Carbuncle plush dolls? If there were to be a Lore App, it would be unlimited and anyone could buy it with no worries of it being sold out.

I would like to also have cake with my dinner and eat it. I would like both but I think having the lore book is far more feasible than the app. I also like the idea of having a book with a glossary and the possibility of a minion to go with it.

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Originally Posted by Naraku_Diabolos

I mean, what if the books are limited in numbers when first released, just like the Carbuncle plush dolls? If there were to be a Lore App, it would be unlimited and anyone could buy it with no worries of it being sold out.

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The Carbuncle Plush (and the moogle plush, actually) is still extremely to get on Japanese sites and it's much cheaper than on the SE store due to the Yen conversion rate; never buy from the SE store if you can help it. If that's what you're worried about, all it takes is a bit of searching. These sites ship to North America and sell to North American customers and it's no different than buying from a western store, except that they charge you in Yen. SE is so strange; they overproduce for Japan but underproduce for the west.

Edit: There may be some limitations to South America, though. I remember hearing about it for Argentina regarding more expensive packages. And Europeans may have to pay customs, ick.

I think for SE the best thing to do is release it physical-only first, then turn it digital later because I do understand it being more easily available.

I, for one, would not be buying it if it was only digital, however.

From the perspective of a player and fan, a lore app makes all the sense in the world. It's awesome, we want it, it would be rivaled only by TV Tropes in terms of I accidentally the whole website link chains. From SE's perspective, though, they (sadly) lose far more than they gain with such a venture. First, it needs a dedicated (and permanent) team. The people they do have are worked pretty hard as it is - organizing and posting all the things won't fit on their schedule. So you'd need new people, and money to pay them (for multiple languages). Then you have one team coming up with the lore and coming up with places to put the lore and coming up with lore for other things people want to add, and you have a second team arguably making it so that paying any close attention the first team's effort is irrelevant. They make a deep, complicated world to explore, so they probably don't want people to forego exploring it unless it's organized and served to them via some other medium. (Community efforts and wikis usually make up this disconnect.) I still love the idea, I just don't think we're likely to get it once I think about it from their POV.

Meanwhile, a lore book is a short-term project whereby a few existing people agree to work very hard in order to satisfy a specific demand on an agreed upon schedule with a definitive end date where they go back to their usual thing.

I can't say for sure, but knowing what we know now (next to nothing) my guess is that this lore book is going to cover three bases: [1] The world basics as a whole so far organized as a sort of "companion book". This fulfills the frequent request, "I only started recently, so I was rushing to catch up and only now do I realize that I really want to get into the lore! Compendium, please." [2] Clarification of finer details from an out of world perspective. Eorzeans are wrong. A lot. Sometimes they're totally wrong for flavor, sometimes they're temporarily wrong and the truth is revealed later. Either way, this is a chance for them to just lay it out how it is and clear up some things once and for all. [3] A vector to release all sorts of backstory they want to tell but have no place for - lots of juicy bonus info that fell through the cracks. This makes sure that people who love the lore the most don't buy a book full of stuff they already know.

There is at least a glass-half-full way to look at it. You're right - the day it comes out, it starts aging. But the day it comes out is also the day that data collection starts on book number two. You might have a few of these by the end, with the game being your primary vector and the books capping off "eras" of the game development as a sort of clean-up and summarizer. (At least, as long as this one goes over well... wink nudge)

And for what it's worth, if you have questions... you can always ask me (or any of the other fine loremongers who've joined our campfire since the days of LOC breadcrumbs). If we don't know, you can be sure we'll debate it until you don't even want to know anymore if it means we'll just shut up.

Long story short: money, dear boy.

More in-depth: some people like owning a physical book. It's easier for them to carry around, and not everyone has, can afford, or wants a big smartphone or tablet. (I myself have the smallest smartphone available, explicitly for the purpose of playing Angry Birds, and have no desire to upgrade or get a tablet.) It's also a nice nod to the English fanbase, since such books are routinely released in Japan (see: Ultimanias) but are never translated and released elsewhere, leaving a lot of details out of our hands unless someone is willing and able to buy and translate one.

It's a bit of extra cash in their pocket, sure, and it can't be updated, but some people are willing to pay for it, so they'll release it.

I like the thought of picking up a big old book, flicking through the pages and arriving on the particular article I want to brush up on or learn more about.

But! The incremental update when worthy thing could be done... maybe... by an actual book in the game, if that's possible? To add things to it, you simply do the story part, side quest, instance, leve, etc etc, and as an extra cherry, kill mob and get the bestiary entry for it... but like I said, probably not going to happen or possible to do, maybe.

they'll make more money with lore books.

I think a lore app database would be great, but yeah - not from S-E for the reasons given above, but from an anonymoose third party...

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Originally Posted by Mjollnir

I think a lore app database would be great, but yeah - not from S-E for the reasons given above, but from an anonymoose third party...

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Honestly, organizing and preparing all the raw info for presentation is my favorite part of the process. It's just if I stop finding and hoarding and learning the info, I dun haves no info. Hard to be the miner and the jeweler and everything in between (unless, ironically, you live in the game we're talking about). I usually settle for only working on one big project at a time, that way I have time to find the info and keep active here in the forums. ^^

Where's that coil summary Moose!?

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Originally Posted by Rocl

Where's that coil summary Moose!?

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You son of a...

<lifts giant bestiary tome, checks which loose papers are under it>
...each Ragnarok-class starship bears a unique designation beginning with I.C., which stands for...
<sets giant bestiary tome back down, flips through pages, estimates time until completion>

Ehhh... Factor in finishing this, and then the Pre-3.2 Story So Far updates... I mean definitely before this E3, surely...

There's so much beneath the surface of that one that it's really high on my "want to finish" list. Probably highest. It slowly shifted from the standard summary you'd expect from watching the raids to more or less Rise and Fall of the White Raven, Part II.

Aren't there plans for some sort of in-game 'bestiary' at some point? I could have sworn I read that somewhere...but I can't recall where. I'll no doubt buy the lore book for my own use, though, since as a role-player it'll be great for adding further depth to my characters as well as learning more about Garlean affairs which I'm rather fond of. Hopefully it'll be relatively painless to get a copy shipped to Scotland...

At any rate a lore book will be incredibly useful if it expands on stuff that isn't really displayed in the game itself. I'd love to learn more about the Au Ra, for example, since I can count the number of Auri NPC's I've encountered on two hands.

As someone who travels a lot and spends are ridiculous amount of time on airplanes, I still carry along actual books and I love the weight, the feel and just the way it interracts with my eyes when I flip through the pages. I can't stand tablet readers. I'm gonna be picking up the lore book and read it cover to cover and back again in my numerous flights.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

Aren't there plans for some sort of in-game 'bestiary' at some point? I could have sworn I read that somewhere...

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It's come up a few times officially:

2011

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Originally Posted by Rukkiri

Spoke to Yoshida himself about this idea and he said that he would like to implement a bestiary if they can make the appropriate parameter adjustments during the battle fixes.

1.0 Official Forums

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2013

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Originally Posted by Naoki Yoshida

For those playing solo, there will be quests, guildleves, as well as some other casual content we have planned, such as the "bestiary."

RPGamer

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2015

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Originally Posted by Naoki Yoshida

Regarding the bestiary, there is a lot of back-end saving data necessary because we need to flag which monsters hasn’t been killed so if we increase this to Level 60, we need more save data for that. However, we’re also suffering about inventory and armory. There are not much slots available so we want to focus more on inventory and armory slots rather than bestiary. However, we’re trying to work on some new contents, new brands contents instead of Bestiary.

FFDREAM

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A while back, I also asked (as an aside, after an interview) if, hypothetically speaking, I were to spend a while working out the kinks of the bestiary, if I would suddenly find that time wasted, since SE was making their own. More or less I was told that there are lots of "databank" kind of things they'd like to add one day (sightseeing log, triad card flavor, minion flavor, gear compendium, bestiary, etc.), but, "Maybe probably please don't look forward to it too much anytime soonish." on the bestiary front.

Whether the year I've spent on it was "anytime soonish" and I'll totally regret this sometime soonish-er? Perhaps in the lore book itself?

... We'll see, I guess, lol. I would be my luck tho. ><

Hell, if they made an lore database app sign me up to keep it updated. Nothing would be cooler to see on my phone in the morning than the notification saying "New Entry in the Raimdelle Codex!" (Cause having an app called by this book that apparently has everything in Eorzea documented would be cool)

The reason we don't have a lore book in english yet is because of the translation time required. They are making the resources for a lore book for us, but presumably those resources are minimal.

I would think an app would be even more cumbersome, since it could conceivably house more data.

However, I wouldn't be against a lore app, I just don't think it will happen first or soon.

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Originally Posted by KaitlanKela

The reason we don't have a lore book in english yet is because of the translation time required.

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Eeeeeh, I'm not sure I agree with this. Assuming Koji Fox is the one writing the lore book, it would probably be the Japanese version that needs translating.

That IS assuming Koji Fox is writting it, but it'll probably be just like the localization process. Koji meeting with Oda-san, mostly talking in japanese, then they'd have to bring in the teams that wrote the class quests, job quests, side story quests, MSQ to bring their notes together and, as Ferne has told us, going from all that japanese and switching back to english in such a short time makes his brain-RAM (BRAM?) freeze.

As much as I'd love to have Ferne work on it to make it much more readily available in english (and here's when poor Ferne shudders lol), I doubt it's going to be a one-man effort. In short, patience and keeping my hopes high

Why not an in-game Lore Book that updates as you go along, so that the lore isn't ruined for first time players. This could be connected (very easily) to an app available on PS4, PC, Android etc so that lore can be researched outside the game environment but within the context of the current in-game situation.

Square did something similar with the Chocobo game that came with FF7 & ran on PC & WonderSwan (IIRC). You could even find things in the mini-game that transferred to the full game, like Ribbons! That's what I was hoping for with Triple Triad & the lore book could do the same. Encourage reading of hidden websites, or proof you've played another FF title.

So. Much. Potential.

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Originally Posted by Culfinrandir

Why not an in-game Lore Book that updates as you go along, so that the lore isn't ruined for first time players. This could be connected (very easily) to an app available on PS4, PC, Android etc so that lore can be researched outside the game environment but within the context of the current in-game situation.

Square did something similar with the Chocobo game that came with FF7 & ran on PC & WonderSwan (IIRC). You could even find things in the mini-game that transferred to the full game, like Ribbons! That's what I was hoping for with Triple Triad & the lore book could do the same. Encourage reading of hidden websites, or proof you've played another FF title.

So. Much. Potential.

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Well most of the lore that would be in a database shouldn't be a spoiler anyway since lore is more about world building than the actual story in game.

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Originally Posted by CyrilLucifer

Eeeeeh, I'm not sure I agree with this. Assuming Koji Fox is the one writing the lore book, it would probably be the Japanese version that needs translating.

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In the interview, they made it sound like lore books are written in JP and would need to be translated into english, and due to the amount of text in game, Koji doesn't have time for it, which is why we don't get one.

They specifically made time to write an English one. My point is that there would be a lot more work involved translating a whole database worth of data. And presumably as big a project as an app would be in the native language first.

But they can use text that is already in the game and just add it to the database app. A lot of it doesn't have to be newly added, but excerpts taken from the game.

Looking forward to this so much.

Really happy we are getting the book. Can't wait to read it.