Cooldowns and when to use them best...

Pretty much lookin for advice on using my cooldowns well. On my pally in DF, i can go whole play sessions and never feel like i NEED to use them. Cause, frankly I don't. But, i feel i could be a better teammate/tank if i work them in, even if it's just to help the healer dps more, or conserve mana. *shrug*

That's for my pally. On the Dark i'm leveling, I'm trying to figure the best times to use them so i can go off grit and up my dps, help my mp conservation, and don't want too over tax the healer while i'm doing it. I keep hearing the term tank busters, and i get concept, but have a bad time at anticipating them. Are they all channels usually? Is there a way to make the channel bar bigger some how, so i can see it easier?

Well, any general cooldown advice will be appreciated. TY.

If you are not using your CDs because you don't need them you're simply not playing the job to its fullest. DPS classes don't "need" their CDs to kill things, but they use them anyways since they kill things faster. Taking the same mentality, even if you don't "need" the CDs to survive, you still take less damage anyways.

Using CDs will depend on what you're pulling, how you're pulling it, and what you're fighting.

The basic rule is: The bigger the damage you're about to take, the bigger the CD you use.

If you pull from the start of SMA all the way 'till a wall stops you, it is advised you chain Hallowed Ground and as son as it drops you use Sentinel then Rampart. After those CDs are down the damage income should have slowed down enough for you to not need any more CDs.

Also using CDs is a good way to stay out of the tank stance. Rampart makes it as if you're in Shield Oath while you are in Sword Oath, Sentinel is more effective HP than ShO.

I think you're looking at cooldowns the wrong way. You say that you don't feel you need to use them - that shouldn't prompt -not- using them, it should mean "well, if I don't need them, i may as well just use them all the time!".

Generally speaking, if you know an encounter has a set rotation of nasty tankbusters, like the Hyper Compressed Plasma in A1S, or even good old Titan HM's mountain busters, you'll probably know ahead of time what they are and have some kind of vague plan on what to use when. You might Rampart one, Sentinel the next etc...

But for general dungeon tanking and easier encounters, just go wild! Pop cooldowns every pull. Try to stagger them so you only have one at a time. If you're pulling a gigantic pack of 20+ mobs in a dungeon, start with Sentinel, then after it runs out go down to Bulwark, then Rampart etc... if it's a HUGE pull maybe even open with Hallowed Ground. If you're making multiple smaller pulls just keep a foresight or awareness up. Pop Bloodbath alongside every Fight or Flight. That kind of thing.

It will just make you easier to heal, and allow your healer to relax a little. You can also do things like think of rampart + Sword Oath as being the same mitigation as Shield Oath, so if you want to contribute more DPS to a boss and arent confidant about a sword oath swap, just swap anyway and use cooldowns so your mitigation isnt borked.

My general rule of thumb is that I like to save Sentinel and Hallowed Ground for real heavy emergencies if possible (though happily blow them both on huge trash pulls if i know the party wants them). They have long CDs and generally make the most difference. But if you're doing content where you really don't feel you -need- to use cooldowns to survive, you should pop Rampart, Convalescence, Bulwark, Foresight, Awareness and Bloodbath basically -constantly-, just have one running at all times. It just makes you that little bit easier to heal and every healer will appreciate it. As Phoenicia said above, just make a point of trying to rank your cooldowns in terms of effectiveness so you pop the bigger ones during times of heavier damage.

There's no hard and fast rule on when to pop cooldowns unless you're doing really hard content where a boss has specific tank busting moves that -need- a cooldown for you to survive, and you need to have them planned out in advance. Just improvise, but don't be afraid to pop them liberally. If you're scared about dying due to not having a big cooldown when needed, just make sure you keep your biggest cooldown ready in reserve just in case and use all the others.

The general knowledge is that dungeons wise, you don't ever need to use CDs for small pulls. However, you would want to pull more than that if you want to get by it faster, usually 2-3 groups of mobs at 1 go. Now, that's when you want to learn how to pop CDs appropriately if you want the best efficiency and pretty much less time killing mobs/bosses in dungeons.

It also depends quite heavily of what kind of DPS composition you are running with. Naturally DPS jobs that can AOE well is going to destroy a large pull a lot faster, unlike a few jobs that are restricted on resources to keep doing AOE (TP issue mostly)

As for tank busters, most of those hit like noodles if you compare those to the hardest raiding dungeons so they aren't as painful. Most of the harder bosses (trials/raid) will have their own patterns on tank busters. Most inexperienced tanks will outright fail because they blow a lot of their cooldowns and not planning them better for the next sets of tank busters.

You could just enlarge your focus target bar and place it directly under your character on the UI.

As a rule of thumb, you should never hold on to a cooldown for longer than duration of the cooldown timer. For example, if rampart comes off cooldown, it should not remain unused for more than 90 seconds. If the next tankbuster is in 45 seconds, you can hold on to it. If the next tankbuster is in 145 seconds, then you use it, and then hold on to it when it comes off cooldown (55 seconds before the tankbuster).

Because boss encounters are very scripted, with cleaves and tankbusters occurring at set intervals, you can map out your cooldown usage in advance. Once you've identified the constraints on your cooldown rotation (i.e. placement of tankbusters), you can time your unused cooldowns so that they soak up the most damage (i.e. the largest number of cleaves or periods of high auto attack damage. You can also use this principle to decide timings where you can stance dance without taking much damage (i.e. periods of long spell casts without incoming cleaves, or periods where you have defensive cooldowns up without incoming tankbusters).

Outside of bosses, you apply the same principles less formally by using your experience to identify pulls where you tend to take more damage, and compensating for them in advance.

I have my focus target element moved to little right and down from the center. Enough away that I still see the center, but close at hand so it's on glance. On boss fights I focus the boss even though as tank I propably have it also targeted the whole time. I originally started this habit on healer as they don't target the boss and I still had to see their cast bars. Noticed it's easier to spot them on that placing on tank as well.

The best way to look at not using cooldowns for any tank is simple:

If you don't use cooldowns in a consistent rotation and try to have something up no matter how piddly at least 80-90% of the time, you're basically letting a bunch of damage just kinda happen to you, that could have been mitigated, for no reason. So there you have it.

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Originally Posted by Sapphidia

I think you're looking at cooldowns the wrong way. You say that you don't feel you need to use them - that shouldn't prompt -not- using them, it should mean "well, if I don't need them, i may as well just use them all the time!".

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This kinda makes tanking a bit more boring than it used to be, because cooldowns don't really matter you can just spam them all the time and very very rarely have a problem doing so. there's very very rarely a wrong time to use them.

as a tank you focus on enmity and dps. cooldowns are pretty much an afterthought that you can pop whenever you like because it really doesn't matter if you use them or not.

It'd be nice personally to see cooldowns and survival more important than dps especially from a tank perspective. cooldowns and mitigation are entirely useless which is why pld is in need of "major changes"

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Originally Posted by Dzian

This kinda makes tanking a bit more boring than it used to be, because cooldowns don't really matter you can just spam them all the time and very very rarely have a problem doing so. there's very very rarely a wrong time to use them.

as a tank you focus on enmity and dps. cooldowns are pretty much an afterthought that you can pop whenever you like because it really doesn't matter if you use them or not.

It'd be nice personally to see cooldowns and survival more important than dps especially from a tank perspective. cooldowns and mitigation are entirely useless which is why pld is in need of "major changes"

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I would like to see this even in dungeons, They are not needed honestly, espescially if you have a half-decent healer. But then again, How many tanks right now do not or don't know how to use them properly. i think we would see either a big decrease in people playing tank or alot of people raging at tanks if they made it harder, sadly enough

Febby's Guide to Pld Buffs (The Mob Tanking Edition).

Synergies (according to timer, not usage):

• (Fight or Flight + Bloodbath) / Rampart
  
• Foresight / Convalescence / Awareness
  
• Bulwark
  
• Sentinel
  
• Hallowed Ground
  
• Extras: Stoneskin, Clemency, and Shelltron.

Defensive Combos and Usages:

Pld CD synergy is actually pretty straight forward. In most cases, the pairings of Pld CD's follows the CD timers. The idea is to match your defense to the amount of dmg being taken. With that in mind, the general rule of thumb for Mob Tanking is “Strongest to Weakest.” There are, however, some exceptions, and which CD's you use will depend on the size of the pull or type of magic being dealt.

For your standard tanking adventures, the pairings are as follows:

• Defensive Combo # 1. (FoF+Bloodbath) + Rampart:
  
  This is your bread and butter right here.
  
  I put FoF+Bloodbath in brackets because they should never be used separately. The healing of BB scales with Dmg, so you might as well take advantage of the dmg boost given by FoF. The CD timers also align, and the duration is only a few seconds off. That said, Pld's dmg output is not high enough to use these two Def CD's alone, especially when tanking. Shield Oath reduces your self-healing substantially, so another CD is necessary. Enter Rampart.
  
  Rampart is one of Pld's best def CD's and should be used with (FoF + BB). The timers align. If you use them together they'll come back around together. Also, if we're talking about MOB pulls, it's a good idea to provide a strong showing at the start.
  
  The mob is strongest when they’re all alive and hitting you. Meaning your defense should be going in order of strongest to weakest when working with Mobs. Rampart is an indiscriminate increase to your defense. It doesn't matter what kind of dmg you're taking, and it's not reliant on RNG or position. This makes it a good starting option.
  On a large pull (2 sets of mobs or more, which is roughly 6 or more mobs), Rampart will have you covered with a strong defense until the Dps can start thinning out the ranks. Once the enemies start dying, you can use weaker CD’s
  
  
• Defensive Combo # 2. Foresight + Convalescence:
  
  This is your secondary defensive combo, and is best used following Combo 1. I typically pair Foresight and Convalescence together based on CD timer and flexibility. Foresight is weak and needs to be supported by another CD. Convalescence is the easiest one to use, and allows the healer to supplement your decreased defense with a boost to their healing. The timers line up perfectly.
  
  If need be, you can also pair these two with additional defense, such as Bulwark. However, the goal is not to do this. You want to stretch your mitigation as far as it goes, and hulking up is not the way to do that. What's more important, and more efficient, is to plan the use of these CD's effectively. As I mentioned, this is a secondary defense. I typically use it following the use of Defensive Combo 1. The reason being is that, by the time the timer of Rampart expires, the Dps should have thinned out some of the mobs (if not outright killed them). Less mobs = less defense required. Foresight and Convalescence can cover it until the remaining mobs are dead.
  
  Another thing I should mention about this combo is that I do NOT like to start pulls with this one, if I can avoid it. This is for 2 reasons:
  
  The first is that Foresight + Convalescence is weaker than (FoF+BB) + Rampart. It doesn't defend against magic, either. Like I said before, you want to start your pull with strong defense.
  
  The second reason is that Convalescence can reduce your enmity. Healers see a sudden boost to their healing magic when you use this move, and it is glorious. However, it also increases the odds of them over healing you, which leads to spikes in healer enmity. Pld's have the weakest enmity in the game (at the moment). It's best not to sabotage it at the start of a pull, before you've had the chance to use your RoH combo on a few targets.
  
  For this reason, this pairing is best used following (FoF+BB) + Rampart. It can be used on smaller pulls, but you have to be more aware of your enmity and what kind of dmg is being dealt.
  
  
• Defensive Combo # 3. Bulwark + Awareness:
  
  This is a tricky one.
  
  Technically, Awareness lines up better with Foresight + Convalescence; however it is best used with Bulwark. Bulwark sees increased efficiency out of nullifying crits. So, using Awarness with it boosts your block rate, thereby increasing your mitigation. That said, the usage is finicky because the timers don't align. You'll have to avoid popping Awareness on CD so that you can use it with Bulwark.
  Awareness CAN be used with any other Defensive Combo in the Pld kit and still do its job effectively, but Bulwark only attains maximum efficiency when used with Awareness (except on boss fights), so the general rule is that you can use Awareness with whatever you like, but Bulwark must be used with Awareness, so plan accordingly.
  
  The other tricky part is that Bulwark only defends against physical dmg, is reliant on position, and dependent on the type of shield being used. For this reason, I don't like to start a pull with Bulwark either. When I do, I typically chose to hold off on using it until I have the mob settled into position, to make the most out of my block rate.
  As for shields, for maximum defense against Mobs, a higher block rate shield is best. However, on bosses, stronger blocks are often better. This is less important, though, because shield stats will eventually reach a cap as we get further into expansion.
  
  
• Sentinel:
  
  One step shy from God Mode. Sentinel is one of Pld's trickiest moves, because of how delightfully simple it is. It has a high defense, low duration, and long CD. For this reason, it is best saved for either a high dmg moment (Tank busters) or the end of your defensive rotation. [/U]There are 3 effective ways to use Sentinel, but all of them fall down to buying time.[/U]
  
  Method 1: The “Oh Shit” Button.
  
  This is probably the most common way people use Sentinel. You can pop it with pretty much any other Defensive CD in the Pld kit and it will give you a solid boost to defense. Using it like this is basically like using it as an “oh shit” button, and you’re buying time for the healer to keep up with the dmg. It is typically unplanned and results from over-pulling, inefficient use of CD’s, or if the healer is struggling to keep up. In all cases, you’re buying time for the healer to keep you alive.
  
  Method 2: Coupling Sentinel with HG.
  
  This is a planned use of Sentinel which is usually reserved for very large pulls with high dmg output. Basically, what you do is pre-buff with Stoneskin, pull big, and pop HG without any other CD’s. When HG falls off, pop Sentinel. Roughly half way through Sentinel’s duration, pop FoF+BB. When Sentinel falls off, pop Rampart. You’re working strongest to weakest here (following the typical method). By the time you get to Bulwark, the mob should be dead or close enough to dead that you don’t have to worry about it.
  
  Method 3: The Reverse Order:
  
  This is advanced Pld tanking and is by far the hardest to do. For one, it requires you to think in reverse. Most Defensive Combos work by following the strongest to weakest method to provide the most defense when the mob is at its strongest. This method tweaks the order a little.
  
  Because Sentinel’s duration is only 10s, starting a pull with Sentinel is not efficient. The effect will end before you finish getting the mob in order. Instead, this method starts with a weaker CD, such as Foresight, to cover the damage you take while in transit (mobs hitting you while following you). When you finish your pull (you’ve stopped), you start your defensive combo rotation. Combo 1 is most often used alone because it is strongest. Combo 2 and 3 are often paired to give them a boost. Sentinel come in LAST.
  
  Basically, Instead of scaling your defense with the mob’s strength (strongest at start, weaker as the mobs die) you’re providing a constant baseline of defense throughout the entire encounter. Sentinel is used at the end as a means to buy you time so that your other CD’s can come back up. It’s very tricky, and it requires you to know precisely when your buffs expire so that you can apply the next set, but it is a means by which Pld’s can do very large pulls without having to resort to using HG. I only recommend it if you know how to cycle your buffs very efficiently.
  
  
• Hallowed Ground:
  
  God Mode for 10 seconds (roughly, depending on latency).
  
  Like Sentinel, HG only has 3 uses. The fist is as an “Oh Shit” button. Not an efficient use, but it is sometimes necessary. The second is a panned use for the biggest pull in the dungeon (see Sentinel method 2). The last is to skip mechanics (Tank busters, Final Stings, player swaps, like in Ravana Ex, etc.). All in all, it is a very simple move and is easy to use. However, the consequences for using it wrong are devastating, as it will most likely result in a wipe and the CD timer is absurdly long.
  
  
• The Extras:
  
  
  I can always tell a career Whm from a moonlighter depending on how they use Stoneskin. A lot of Whm’s will pre-buff you with it just before the last mob of a pull dies so that it is up for the start of the next pull. Mimic those professionals.
  
  On mob pulls, Stoneskin is simply used a Pre-buff. If your healer is not pre-buffing you before the last mob of a pull dies, you should be doing it to yourself to save time. It gives you an extra precious few seconds at the start of the next pull to line everything up before you start your Defensive CD rotations. Most good healers will handle this for you, but if they’re not, I tend to self-cast SS when the last mob of a pull is sub 30% to prep for the next pull.
  
  Clemency, has almost no use during mob pulls unless your healer is asleep or dead. There have been, very rare, occasions in which I’ve had to self-heal during a mob pull because the healer was falling behind, dead, or I maybe just ran out of Tp and had nothing else to do, but these circumstances are extremely rare. Clemency’s use is 99% for boss encounters, however it is important to note that most mobs cannot hit hard enough to cancel a Clemency cast. Those that do typically use an AoE cone or charge bar. So there’s really nothing stopping you from using it if you have to.
  
  Shelltron is very simple. In mob pulls, use it on CD or to proc a hit of Shield Swipe. In boss fights, save it for TB’s or cleaves.

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Well, any general cooldown advice will be appreciated. TY.

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Rookie healer's point of view here: Bad usage is worse than no usage at all. Tanks that don't use them will take extra preventable damage a lot, but at least they're predictable i.e. they take it all the time. The ones that bug me are the ones that pop everything when we're only fighting 2 monsters and/or keep them all on cooldown at all times. That means I have to deal with random immortality spikes, basically forcing me to stay in healer mode since there's no pattern to it. Either use them right or don't use them at all.

You'll eventually get used to the buff icons and their significance when you're stuck playing the Whack-a-Mole 3D mini-game. If you see a whole bunch of buffs go up for no apparent reason, just pop regen on the tank and ignore them until regen is about to fall off. The duration of regen just about coincides with the duration of the longest tank cooldowns for all three tanks.

To be fair, bad/unpredictable cooldown usage isn't significantly better than no cooldown usage. If you're not using them for tankbusters, they should be used to facilitate both your healer's dps and your own dps. In well scripted raid encounters, both you and your healer should have a shared plan in advance on how your combined cooldowns will go out (i.e. you should have a good idea of when they tend to pop divine seal and other healing boosts so that you don't unnecessarily overlap).