BRR/MCH Idea

I don't play either of these classes but I know a lot of people upset when they are moving they can't do anything. Why not make it so that your 30% buff from you stance goes to 0% while moving but you can shoot. When you stop you back up to 30%. Logically if I'm running with a gun and fire in not going to be as accurate.

MCH is actually balanced to deal with GB and moving. If the GB buff is dropped when moving then that would actually force the MCH to stop moving and stand still to use skills. Now as far as BRD, I think WM was poorly added but I wouldn't go with a movement drop on that either. Maybe half the buff but remove the cast timer.

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Originally Posted by Arasiel

Why not make it so that your 30% buff from you stance goes to 0%

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tl;dr- it's more beneficial to turn off stance and land an auto attack in addition to the instant cast ability
This is equivalent to just turning off our casting stance. I've already gotten used to doing this when moving for more than 5 seconds is needed, but the problem this really presents is that you wouldn't be landing an extra auto attack where you normally would otherwise by turning the stance off. This lines up with the argument of using feint vs. turning off the stance to use a heavy shot. One heavy shot is about 6 potency less than feint with the 30% buff, but you also have a high likelihood (especially if you lock on as you're supposed to when in non casting stance) of landing at least one auto attack. The math lines up that auto attacks are 20% of your dps in non casting stance but the extra abilities in the stance plus the 30% buff outnumber that output.

just toggle it off when on the move

seriously, Minuet (cast times) isn't the problem with Bard....right now, with the current end game meta, there's several other things that can be improved on Bard

it's been close to six months since Minuet has been introduced...folks still upset with Bard over it's playstyle post lvl 50 (instead of what's really wrong with the job) don't have a clue and never will

Or do what I do and cross class Feint from DRG.

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Originally Posted by Iagainsti

Or do what I do and cross class Feint from DRG.

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Quoting for truth.

Also remember most people who run+move with BRD don't actually lock-on to their target, which means.....your auto attacks aren't going to be hitting it anyway.

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Originally Posted by Kelevra

it's been close to six months since Minuet has been introduced...folks still upset with Bard over it's playstyle post lvl 50 (instead of what's really wrong with the job) don't have a clue and never will

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It's a matter of FUN, bard isn't FUN to play anymore, it's not the class that people played for 2 years prior to WM. Some people just plain don't find it fun when the pre 3.0 bard WAS fun to play. I've basically quit the game since 3.0 because bard was the ONLY class that I genuinely had FUN playing, and I don't have fun playing it anymore.

Why do people find it hard to comprehend that it doesn't matter how much DPS a class can do to some people if it's not FUN to play?

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Originally Posted by Tharkis

Why do people find it hard to comprehend that it doesn't matter how much DPS a class can do to some people if it's not FUN to play?

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Well, do explain what makes it fun without WM. Aside from strutting all over the place for no reason.

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Originally Posted by Tharkis

Why do people find it hard to comprehend that it doesn't matter how much DPS a class can do to some people if it's not FUN to play?

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I mean, I'm sorry you don't have fun anymore. Fun is a big factor.
But please don't assume that EVERY bard suddenly doesn't have fun with WM. I'm having a lot of fun with the class and I sort of get bored now every time I'm level synced down....sorta weird.

If you're in a dungeon/non endgame raid just doing that content you'll live without WM, but............. you'll definitely not be doing your best and I would probably give you the side-eye. I wouldn't kick you or anything though.

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Originally Posted by AskaRay

If you're in a dungeon/non endgame raid just doing that content you'll live without WM, but............. you'll definitely not be doing your best and I would probably give you the side-eye. I wouldn't kick you or anything though.

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I would. Reminds me of the Ice Mages some BLM's you run across like to RP as. Fun is fun, and if you aren't having fun with your class then maybe it's not the class for you anymore. No need to gimp yourself that horrendously. Albeit, there are little things here and there that people laze out with in some content, but it's usually not a click and forget (For the most part) that accounts for an abundance of your contribution.

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Originally Posted by Tharkis

It's a matter of FUN, bard isn't FUN to play anymore, it's not the class that people played for 2 years prior to WM. Some people just plain don't find it fun when the pre 3.0 bard WAS fun to play. I've basically quit the game since 3.0 because bard was the ONLY class that I genuinely had FUN playing, and I don't have fun playing it anymore.

Why do people find it hard to comprehend that it doesn't matter how much DPS a class can do to some people if it's not FUN to play?

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So, is it the really jarring change from the run&gun play style, or the increased focus on procs and stuff becoming stressful?

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Originally Posted by MPNZ

So, is it the really jarring change from the run&gun play style, or the increased focus on procs and stuff becoming stressful?

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2.0 Bard was basically just Straight Shot, Wind-bite, Venomous Bite, and spam Heavy-shot/Bloodletter. Rinse and repeat. A few of the nuanced things that advanced Bards did back then was timing Barrage for 4 auto-attacks, reacting quickly/appropriately for Blood-letter procs, buff alignment, and maintaining auto-attacks/GCDs while moving.

3.0 Bard feels like a completely different job because of the caster mechanics. Imagine playing a melee job and suddenly having to stand still for 1-2 seconds to execute GCDs. You would have to plan out how you move a lot more so you do not lose GCDs. That is what changed for Bard in 3.0.

Also there is a lot more oGCD pressure with new oGCD abilities. There are many times where you have to a bunch of timers come up at the same time.

Bloodletter proc, Straight Shot needs to be refreshed, Empyreal arrow coming off CD, Iron Jaws needs to be refreshed, and various buffs like B4B/Hawk Eye/Raging up soon. All at once, with mechanics happening. Perhaps that aspect is too complicated/overwhelming compared to 2.0 Bard's relatively simpler game play. I can see why a lot of players are turned off by that play style.

I think my main problem is Bard just feels kinda slow and awkward now.
Back in ARR the job felt really fast and fluid to me. I really dislike how the cast times prevent comfortable double weaving in Heavensward.

It also just doesn't feel as rewarding to me as the true casters. Sure BLM can't move as much, but you're rewarded with awesome giant numbers from Fire IV. I guess Summoner can move about as much as BRD overall but to me Deathflare is waaaay more fun than anything BRD got. I also feel that Dreadwyrm Trance added to the Summoner play style without taking away from the way they played in ARR.

I still tend to play Bard when trying content for the first time and I always use WM when playing in a group in order to avoid holding the team back.
However, to me Heavensward Bard just isn't as fun as it was back in ARR.