Magical Craftmanship vs. Craftmanship

On other forums I have seen people testing to find out what recipes are magical and what ones are craftsmanship. I was wondering if anyone has figured this out for some of the weaving recipes.

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Originally Posted by Miry

On other forums I have seen people testing to find out what recipes are magical and what ones are craftsmanship. I was wondering if anyone has figured this out for some of the weaving recipes.

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A friend who is a R50 weaver told me that when the primary shards required are
- Fire, Earth, Wind then the recipe is Craftsmanship
- Lightning, Ice, Water then the recipe is Magic Craftsmanship

I'm just taking his word for it. ^^

im not so sure i agree with the above statement as there are a lot of synths that use shards from both your breakdown of craftsmanship and magic craftsmanship, biggest example being any of the dyed cloth.

Since no one really knows for certain, i try to keep both high and about even. though drinking an odd juice or so with magic craftsmanship while doing dyed cloths several ranks above me seems to help (though it could all just be in my head)

Yeah what's up with this. Tell us now SE!!

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Originally Posted by TempestReve

im not so sure i agree with the above statement as there are a lot of synths that use shards from both your breakdown of craftsmanship and magic craftsmanship, biggest example being any of the dyed cloth.

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According to him, it depends mainly on the type of shard that is used more.

For example, colored velveteen uses 15 earth shards and 5 water shards, meaning that the weaver would be better served by gear that enhances craftsmanship vs. magic craftsmanship.

He may be wrong, of course, but I'm not in any position to say otherwise.

If anyone has different experience, please share it with us. ^^

I have also wondered/experimented alot with Craft vs. Magic Craft and think there may be truth to the idea of shards dictating the type of a particular synth. However, my opinion is a little different from above. Please note that the following suggestions are just observations from my own time spent weaving, I have no "hard evidence".

For example, undyed cloth (which takes only earth shards) seem easily done with a +Craftsmanship setup, assuming you are the appropriate rank. Dyed cloth, which take earth shards AND water shards, seem more difficult with the same craftsmanship setup, even at the appropriate rank. Swap out a few pieces of Craft gear for Magic Craft gear, and the difference in rate of successful actions is pretty noticeable on those dyed cloths. I've noticed the same with undyed vs. dyed leathers in Leatherworking as well.

My opinion is this: Let's use Wine-Red Velveteen as an example. This synth takes 15 earth shards and 5 water shards. Assuming the theory is true, that would hint that our synth is largely physical with a bit of magic required, almost like a sub craft. Stack a good amount of Craftsmanship with a moderate amount of M.Craft, and you'll see better results than going 100% in either direction, or going heavy on M.Craft and light on Craft.

As a R.50 Weaver with a full Craftsmanship setup and almost no M.Craft, I was wondering how I could still hit critical fails trying to HQ Cotton Yarn (~r.12?) and lose ~20 durability despite the huge gap between my rank and the synth's rank. Cotton Yarn uses lightning crystals, which are under our proposed magical category. Switched in only one or two M.Craft pieces and voila! Much easier, even using only Bold Synthesis.

This would also help explain the use of Main/Offhand tools (other than to produce different HQ results). Generally mainhand tools favor Craft and offhand tools favor M.Craft. If you have a largely magical synth and a poor M.Craft setup, switching to the offhand tool with greater M.Craft seems to help boost success rate (or at least it seems to me).

It would also explain why the majority of Alchemy synths (which use alot of water and lightning shards) seem to go better with Magic Craft setups.

Anyway, if anyone has any observations or suggestions regarding the shard theory (or any other theories) let's hear them! Crafting is such a huge part of the game, it would be nice to have some more info to work with.

Hi VenusDoom,

Thanks for sharing your insights. I think what you are saying and what my friend says are pretty much in agreement.

My previous posts were probably too simplistic -- inferring that the entire synth leans towards Craftsmanship or Magic Craftsmanship depending on the shards and crystal.

Your post really helps to clarify it: there is probably a balance between both types of craftsmanship depending on the shards and crystals used, and the wise crafter would balance their equipment to match. ^^

I think I will need to get some new crafting gear when the servers come back online!

ps- I don't want to take the thread off topic, but I posted a thread in the Synthesis & Gathering sub-forum about moon phases and hours of the day affecting synthesis. If you have any thoughts on those, I'd love to hear them!
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...days-and-hours

thank you!, i will try with the shards theory =)

Concerning Control; SE stated in one of their Ask The Devs that Control exerts it's influence over both of the above. I believe that each synth has a hidden optimal level of Control that corresponds to the synth's rank and wants to be met in order to produce the best results.

For example, low level synths are easily manageable without Control, and there is very little gear that gives Control at those ranks. It's likely that whatever tool you are using at the low levels provides enough Control to get you through those synths without great gear. But you'll notice that into the higher ranks, most tools favor Control over the other stats (i.e. Thousand Needle, Steel Round Knife, Thermal Alembic. Iron Chocobotail Saw, Heavy Crowsbeak Hammer...), which may be because of the increasing hidden Control requirement for your rank 40+ synths. I'm also of the opinion that Control will give you more Touch Ups before your finished product starts to spark and lose more durability.

To illustrate this, try for an HQ on any r40+ synth with a Craft/M.Craft setup with no Control gear a few times, then try for the same HQ with a balance of whichever the Shard Theory indicates + a good amount of Control, and note the differences in success rate of Bold Synthesis and the number of Touch Ups you are able to do before aetherial sparking.

Again, please provide feedback, suggestions, insight, whatever, even if it's examples to shoot down my theories hehe.

Necro bump...

Please SE, clarify the use of Craftmanship and Magic Craftmanship

I believe it's based on the items stats; mage equip & meds requiring magic craftsmanship, weapons and armor requiring craftsmanship, etc. At this point the best way to go is probably to put the best stats you can into each equip location and hope for the best.

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Originally Posted by Suneater

I believe it's based on the items stats; mage equip & meds requiring magic craftsmanship, weapons and armor requiring craftsmanship, etc. At this point the best way to go is probably to put the best stats you can into each equip location and hope for the best.

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This doesn't work because then what do materials use?

A theory we thought might work was Craftsmanship is used for materials and Magic Craftsmanship is used for finished items (stats = magic, no stats = physical). But I really wish SE could let us know what exactly they do. I'm trying to figure out if I should sell my Vintage Robe +1 or keep it.

Would be nice to get an official answer on this. I've been looking at different armor pieces per slot and I can't even find a good pattern to determine which might favor what. It's pretty heavy into +craftsmanship for all crafts at the later levels, but there's a mish mash of mg. craftsmanship that can be used across all classes. The velveteen stuff is a hybrid of mg. craftsmanship and craftsmanship and that set lasts for a long time. Right now I pretty much just equip appropriate level armor and pray...

Varies by item family, no other tricks to it.

All threads are magical, but if you use offhand you end up getting x2 instead of +1.
All cloth are physical. (It used to be all dyed cloth are magical).

For finished items, it might go like:
All Robes are XXX.
All Doublets are YYY.

Just test with the cheapest member of the item family.
No time to do extensive tests. Sometimes I can't tell the difference either.

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Originally Posted by tymora

Varies by item family, no other tricks to it.

All threads are magical, but if you use offhand you end up getting x2 instead of +1.
All cloth are physical. (It used to be all dyed cloth are magical).

For finished items, it might go like:
All Robes are XXX.
All Doublets are YYY.

Just test with the cheapest member of the item family.
No time to do extensive tests. Sometimes I can't tell the difference either.

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This seems to be holding true so far for me.

Cotton yarns crafting well on the wheel, switching over to cloth and using the wheel (trying that first since primary is lightning shard) yielded many unstable lightning elements during the craft, and some near-breaks. Switched over to needle and absolutely no problem.