Balancing melee in PvP

Tank needs a grappling skill that is able to pull kiting range class. (plus stun)

All melee skill should be armor piercing (ignore defense) that is able to take down healers.

Else PvP will be dominated by range class.

Grappling skill like holmgang? Could also plunge if ur DRK
Melee and ranged both have their ups and downs, i've been pvping strictly as a tank and I have no troubles dealing with ranged
All DPS melee have a form of mobility skill aswell, shoulder tackle, dives, overwhelm etc.

Defense doesn't matter in pvp, it's value is completely ignored hence protect/foresight etc. skills don't work

Usually once a melee is on a ranged they'll come out on top with their abilities that can stun, interrupt spells, slow, etc. The key is to stick to em!

PvP isn't dominated by ranged class at ALL.

Plus defence isn't used in PvP.

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Originally Posted by xxczx

PvP isn't dominated by ranged class at ALL.

Plus defence isn't used in PvP.

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This. Morale, defense and magic defense are all negated in Frontlines. Ranged classes also all have handicaps. Bards and Machinists do a lot less damage depending on how close/far they are away from you, all other casters can easily be interrupted from any auto attack or skill if they have to hard cast a spell, and the melee LB's can one-shot almost any caster unless they have stoneskin/adlo on them already.

morale works in frontlines

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Originally Posted by xxczx

morale works in frontlines

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Sorry, but you're misinformed. Morale doesn't work in Frontlines, the matches are all item level synced to 80 (level 50) and 150 (level 60).

Reference

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In order to ensure participants are evenly matched, materia bonuses, as well as the Morale parameter, will be ignored while item level sync is in effect.

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Any guide and player test will show you the same result. Morale is entirely useless in anything other than the Wolves' Den. All level 60 PVP is merely for glamours in terms of usefulness, at the moment. Once the level 60 Wolve's Den equivalent is released (next patch i believe) then it will have a use.

if we had i130 pvp gear with +20 morale, that would be i150 in seal rock.

what the level sync does is sync the i180 gear AFTER the morale boost, so the difference is really small but still there. (helps to get stat caps)

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Originally Posted by GunsBlazing

All level 60 PVP is merely for glamours in terms of usefulness, at the moment.

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That is incorrect, I'd like to see you achieve your PvP BiS without i180 PvP gear.

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Originally Posted by xxczx

if we had i130 pvp gear with +20 morale, that would be i150 in seal rock.

what the level sync does is sync the i180 gear AFTER the morale boost, so the difference is really small but still there. (helps to get stat caps)
That is incorrect, I'd like to see you achieve your PvP BiS without i180 PvP gear.

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Wasn't all of that just poorly made speculation? It was a several month old reddit post that never had any followup testing that i saw. Because, I have a full set of i180 pvp gear for my primary character who is on Flames (this character is adders, she'd take 11 years to hit max pvp rank on my data center) and when i equip it, my HP does not increase at all from my PVE gear, on my paladin. If morale worked, i should notice a tiny increase, right? I know how the morale changes work with item level, i have not noticed any enhancement in seal rock, though.

In JP servers, there are 20smns/blms vs 2 melees ratio. All raining comentors when AR is up. If you tell me melee and range are balance. I... have to disagree. In a 1 vs 1 situation, against cc ranged, most melees are sitting duck. The main problem I see especially paladin is we are unable to chain stun due to the resistance build up over time. Since we have CD on stuns, maybe they should remove the stun resistance in PvP mode?

And for those saying range and melee are balanced, I would like to see your pvp video(s) as a melee (especially paladin) winning a similar geared range class without others CCing for you.

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The key is to stick to em!

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Exactly this how? What I'm proposing is letting melee have this grappling skill that has a long CD to pull in ranged for a chance to kill. Not forgetting there are skills that slow our skill 50%.

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Originally Posted by FudoMyoo

In JP servers, there are 20smns/blms vs 2 melees ratio. All raining comentors when AR is up. If you tell me melee and range are balance. I... have to disagree. In a 1 vs 1 situation, against cc ranged, most melees are sitting duck. The main problem I see especially paladin is we are unable to chain stun due to the resistance build up over time. Since we have CD on stuns, maybe they should remove the stun resistance in PvP mode?

And for those saying range and melee are balanced, I would like to see your pvp video(s) as a melee (especially paladin) winning a similar geared range class without others CCing for you.

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Huh. Is that so? When I was on Tonberry I saw a healthy mix of melee and ranged.

An all ranged PUG will get stomped plain and simple. If you have the coordination to sleep an entire enemy team on a node to ranged LB then I can see the issue. If you're talking about slaughter then ranged were dominating because there was no reason to get close due to no real objectives being present.

In both Secure and Seize melee play a vital role in securing and defending points.

As it currently stands all jobs are, for the most part balanced IN FRONTLINE.

PLD will not win any 1 on 1 VS anything, but they sure as hell can stunlock someone for their team to wreck faces. You seem to not understand that Frontline is a team effort and everyone.

All in all I'm seeing a lot of misinformation in this thread, presumably from PvP beginners thinking melee classes suck because they can't figure out how to use them properly.

I am typing this from my phone while at work so excuse how disorganized everything is

Edit:

Use Sprint. It helps a lot.

Pld can win 1 v 1 :3

https://youtu.be/msN-_ua-PiY

Big skill difference here, but still a fine battle. Silly melees taking that push back bait XD

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Originally Posted by whythehate

Pld can win 1 v 1 :3

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They can, for sure! But I can't see it happening if both are equally skilled.

I'd also like to add this video to the discussion

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3f4g6WNjmE

I too thought melee was unbalanced until I saw this guy wrecking faces.

I think i should refer to paladin in particular. And that video is not 1vs1 he is just sniping most of the time with range backup.

I play GMT+8 9pm to 1am mostly. Maybe im in a different tonberry. lol

Now in game 11:38pm 24 players

Only 3 melee dps 4 tanks. :D

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Originally Posted by FudoMyoo

I think i should refer to paladin in particular. And that video is not 1vs1 he is just sniping most of the time with range backup.

I play GMT+8 9pm to 1am mostly. Maybe im in a different tonberry. lol

Now in game 11:38pm 24 players

Only 3 melee dps 4 tanks. :D

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Found the issue!

You think PvP is about 1v1...it isn't.

Change that mindset and you'll be set.

Melees are extremely strong... DRG has insane burst. In terms of Seal Rock or whatever, sure ranged have advantage cause they don't have to jump into multiple people to get skills off but that by no means makes them overpowered or better than melee. Any good melee should be able to take out a ranged job.

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Originally Posted by Nova_Rox

They can, for sure! But I can't see it happening if both are equally skilled.

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Tanks have the advantage over Melee DPS, and in most cases will win in a 1v1 against them.

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Originally Posted by GunsBlazing

Because, I have a full set of i180 pvp gear for my primary character who is on Flames (this character is adders, she'd take 11 years to hit max pvp rank on my data center) and when i equip it, my HP does not increase at all from my PVE gear, on my paladin. If morale worked, i should notice a tiny increase, right?

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Not if your PvE gear was already at the VIT cap for PvP's item level sync.

I confirmed without doubt that morale and item level sync do interact this way back during ARR, for myself. If it doesn't work now, then it's been changed.

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Originally Posted by FudoMyoo

In a 1 vs 1 situation, against cc ranged, most melees enjoy the benefit of receiving a free easy kill against said ranged

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Fixed that for you. You are generalizing melees when I think you are just talking about pld specifically so you should just say paladin. Melees like monk and dragoon have gap closers, weapon throw, and fetter ward. Its laughable to imply they would fear a ranged class one on one. They relish the opportunity to run into a lone caster, brd, or mch alone somewhere.

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Originally Posted by FudoMyoo

Exactly this how? What I'm proposing is letting melee have this grappling skill that has a long CD to pull in ranged for a chance to kill. Not forgetting there are skills that slow our skill 50%.

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So playing Devil's Advocate sorta...

2/4 current pvp modes, melee should not have any problem reaching ranged attackers, both WD and Slaughter utilize such small areas for combat(WD's arena default, Slaughter's "mid) that range is almost negligible. For Secure and Seize, objectives and team work are more important than kills, so you as a melee do not need to rush a target alone or if your target causes you to chase, your priorities should shift back to what else is going on, because you've technically taken that target "out of combat" if the had to stop what they were doing to run away from you. Between PVP abilities and the PVE actions utilized differently, all melee classes are well equip to handle range classes to further objectives, even if it doesn't result in a kill.

This is a big shit post. The way CC and gap-closers are distributed between the 3 roles is near perfect. Much better than league when every character has every CC in the book and 2 escapes and 2 gap closers.

I like to see you as a melee 1 vs 1 range class videos

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Originally Posted by FudoMyoo

In JP servers, there are 20smns/blms vs 2 melees ratio. All raining comentors when AR is up. If you tell me melee and range are balance. I... have to disagree. In a 1 vs 1 situation, against cc ranged, most melees are sitting duck. The main problem I see especially paladin is we are unable to chain stun due to the resistance build up over time. Since we have CD on stuns, maybe they should remove the stun resistance in PvP mode?

And for those saying range and melee are balanced, I would like to see your pvp video(s) as a melee (especially paladin) winning a similar geared range class without others CCing for you.

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No one likes being stun locked.

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Originally Posted by FudoMyoo

I like to see you as a melee 1 vs 1 range class videos

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You don't get it still?

You're wrong. Man up and learn from it.

It's true that Japanese servers heavily favour ranged in Seal Rock at the moment. But when someone comes melee we don't all frown and give up; melee jobs played well bring a lot to the table and tear through ranged-heavy teams if they avoid the cometeor onslaughts. We have a bunch of regulars in my datacenter who favour jobs like Ninja and Dragoon and they're great players, and everyone loves having a Paladin in their team. My other half plays Warrior and she does a great job. The only times I've sighed at a melee team is when it's 7 melee DPS and me (on a healing job) and nobody considers switching out to give me some backup.

I quit WoW when they started going completely overboard with CC. I ended up stunlocked every time I walked out of my spawn; let's not encourage XIV to go there. It's not even remotely fun for anyone.