Implementation of Alexander Gordias: Savage Adjustments

How/when will the adjusted versions of Alexander (Savage) be implemented. I'm not looking for specific fight adjustments. I'm sure that there are a few other groups around who will be fairly close to finishing Living Liquid or the Manipulator in its current state and would like to complete the unedited version.

The information I'm interested in learning:
-When in relationship to the launch of 3.2 will there be adjustments to Alexander (Savage)
-Will it be similar to the Binding Coil and Second Coil adjustments where it replaces the fight, or will different instances such as "Alexander - The Arm of the Father (Extreme)" be added as the adjusted versions so that people can still challenge the unedited versions

personally I don't think it should change as the ilvl increases the easier the dps checks will be. I haven't gone in yet but I would like to see what everyone is complaining about.

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Originally Posted by Marxam

personally I don't think it should change as the ilvl increases the easier the dps checks will be. I haven't gone in yet but I would like to see what everyone is complaining about.

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AS1 is a joke

AS2 is almost another Binding Coil of Bahamut - Turn 4

AS3 has /many/ DPS checks.

AS4 is a DPS check, in many ways.


wee.

They've implemented i205 and i210 (albeit through a tedious grind) weapons, and Gobtwines/Gobcoat via VA to give people full i210 Eso. At this point all that should be enough to clear. Best to just keep Savage as is and if people are still struggling then they can just go back to it when they get 3.2 tome gear or something.

From everything they've said so-far in the Live Letters, I don't think that Gordias Savage will have any mechanical changes to it at all. All they're going to do is tack on some Echo to it after the content is no longer relevant anymore and people want to back-clear it like they did with Coil.

@FeliAiko
We thought similar things about Binding Coil and Second Coil and look what happened to those.

@Malzian
They said around 3.1 that they were considering changes to Savage depending on the clears due to Thordan weapons

Hopefully never since you already have story mode to get through the story.

I don't see changes as necessary. Coil? Yes, due to people wanting to see the story. There's no real reason to adjust Savage. If anything I think they should place an ilvl cap on it of 210 and keep the rewards/titles/achievements as a testament to skill and accomplishment.

I am a bit worried about what will happen to A3S and A4S. I actually think new gear - echo is enough, but I was thinking about this for BcoB and ScoB and some turns were nerfed...
ANyway, at the moment no on knows, so impossible to answer OP's questions.

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Originally Posted by UltimateAoe2

AS2 is literally almost the same as Binding Coil of Bahamut - Turn 4

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This literally cannot be true.

Server delay still makes the mechanics in A3S wonky as fuck. One run you can't pass digititis while both people are running through each other, you have to have one person stay still, but then the next it decides to do the complete opposite.

Don't even get started on drainage tethers. Our BLM had one, stood still and away from the puddle, and our PLD is stood in the tether for a whole second and it doesn't pass. BLM dies, we wipe because the add the BLM was killing got through.

Even when you're on top form server delay and rng still screw you.

(For context, my raid group is currently tackling phase 4)

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Originally Posted by FaileExperiment

This literally cannot be true.

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English is so damn hard late at night, lmao. Fixed.

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Originally Posted by EdgeFayth

I am a bit worried about what will happen to A3S and A4S. I actually think new gear - echo is enough, but I was thinking about this for BcoB and ScoB and some turns were nerfed...
ANyway, at the moment no on knows, so impossible to answer OP's questions.

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Binding coil didn't have any adjustments when the next raid tier came, only second coil. Needless to say the fights in second coil are completely different now than in 2.2. That said, there's already a story version, so there shouldn't be any need for players to actually complete it as it doesn't lock anything. As for echo, to this day there isn't echo in savage coil so I don't think there will be...

If A4S is required to get into A5S, there will be a nerf.

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Originally Posted by Mindy_Macready

If A4S is required to get into A5S, there will be a nerf.

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I honestly doubt that it will be as it was unlocked via the wandering minstrel. There wasn't a quest given to complete AS so there won't be an entry requirement. Also if you can't clear the previous floors overgeared then I'm not sure you will make much progress in the new tier anyway.

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Originally Posted by Mindy_Macready

If A4S is required to get into A5S, there will be a nerf.

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I'd say that's doubtful. It'll more likely be just a 'complete A8' requirement.

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Originally Posted by UBERHAXED

I honestly doubt that it will be as it was unlocked via the wandering minstrel. There wasn't a quest given to complete AS so there won't be an entry requirement. Also if you can't clear the previous floors overgeared then I'm not sure you will make much progress in the new tier anyway.

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But there was a requirement to unlock Alexander savage which was complete heavensward and have beaten ultima EX so who knows, might be gated behind must've completed this or straight unlock

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Originally Posted by LukeStuz

But there was a requirement to unlock Alexander savage which was complete heavensward and have beaten ultima EX so who knows, might be gated behind must've completed this or straight unlock

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There was actually a quest associated with completing the mistrals ballad trial with ultimate weapon. There wasn't an outstanding quest that completed when you beat AS4. Furthermore, the requirement was not to complete heavensward, it was to complete the normal version. And it's likely to be exactly the same (including complete ultimate weapon).

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Originally Posted by UBERHAXED

Binding coil didn't have any adjustments when the next raid tier came, only second coil.

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There were adjustments. Don't remind everything, but stuff like High Voltage which stay for a shorter time and can be dispelled, for example.

Nerfs brought to coil :
high voltage (T1-T2) lasts 8 seconds instead of 30 and can be dispelled
Conflags (T5) have less HP
Bouquet (T6) no longer kills you (damage nerfed from 14k to 4k or something)
Petrification (T7) lasts 10 seconds instead of 1 minute, and you no longer die instantly if you get hit in this state

Thses are the only nerfs I can remember on all coil.
IF AS ever get a nerf, the only one I could see besides echo would be a dapage nerf on digitis, maybe ? (I think that's the right ability. Been 3 month since I last entered AS3)

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Originally Posted by CorbinDallas

Server delay still makes the mechanics in A3S wonky as fuck.

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That's the reason hard in this game is defined as dps checks. With the poor server/net code it's too easy to get caught in 'hard' mechanics.

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Originally Posted by Saccharin

That's the reason hard in this game is defined as dps checks. With the poor server/net code it's too easy to get caught in 'hard' mechanics.

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ironically enough, that's also how people managed to cheat said dps check in AS4

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Originally Posted by Pence

I don't see changes as necessary. Coil? Yes, due to people wanting to see the story. There's no real reason to adjust Savage. If anything I think they should place an ilvl cap on it of 210 and keep the rewards/titles/achievements as a testament to skill and accomplishment.

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Agree, we haven't cleared it(a3) yet but where's the fun (when) they Nerf it.... ? It's not even that hard in my opinion (with current ilvl). DPS checks are never a issue, ppl just fail to mechanics (like our grp -.-!).
After nerf you go clear it, and then? Cry cause not enough content or not hard enough.. I was rly disappointed about nerf message especially since there's a story mode for baddies

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Originally Posted by Phafi

How/when will the adjusted versions of Alexander (Savage) be implemented. I'm not looking for specific fight adjustments. I'm sure that there are a few other groups around who will be fairly close to finishing Living Liquid or the Manipulator in its current state and would like to complete the unedited version.

The information I'm interested in learning:
-When in relationship to the launch of 3.2 will there be adjustments to Alexander (Savage)
-Will it be similar to the Binding Coil and Second Coil adjustments where it replaces the fight, or will different instances such as "Alexander - The Arm of the Father (Extreme)" be added as the adjusted versions so that people can still challenge the unedited versions

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No worries bros, when ull be 250 in few months, ull do it unsync :3

and maybe still wipe on brand passing or deeps wall xD

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Originally Posted by Rikku1987

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I could argue, "Where is the fun in A3S now?" Spoiler alert, it isn't fun. Well, in my opinion anyway, and probably the opinion of the hundreds of statics still smashing their faces against the wonky, still tight, insta death, mechanics. We may be 210 now, but more hp/dmg doesn't help you survive when digititis fails. It doesn't help you when drainage doesn't work and doesn't pass to the tank. It doesn't help when embolus clips liquid because lol server delay.

Fact is, besides the dps checks, which yes, I admit are much easier now, the mechanics are inconsistently wonky and brutally unforgiving. They should be either or, not both.

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Originally Posted by CorbinDallas

"Where is the fun in A3S now?" It doesn't help when embolus clips liquid because lol server delay.

Fact is, besides the dps checks, which yes, I admit are much easier now, the mechanics are inconsistently wonky and brutally unforgiving. They should be either or, not both.

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Oh i think that since the servers are eu based, its 10x better and only dps checks are still a bit tough at the moment. Ive transferred 1 week on Balmung and A3S was prolly undoable, impossible, terrible in fact. But in EU, i have no more issues with digititis, with 30-50ms.

As said, with the patch incoming, it'll be no more a faceroll

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Originally Posted by Kuwagami

Nerfs brought to coil :
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In addition to these, the adds on Twintania had their HP reduced, Renauds in the Melusine fight had their damage completely neutered (from one shotting tanks to having healers be able to ignore their damage), and I believe The Avatar had his mechanics stripped down - for one thing, you can stack like 4 or 5 lifedrains from triggering towers before you're in any danger. I think Nael golem HP and AI was altered as well - the way meteors are fed was definitely changed. They overnerfed second coil for sure, which is a shame because it was pretty much their most fun raid (along with some of their 2nd coil savage counterparts)

There's a lot of changes that could be made to A3S/A4S without neutering them but it's mostly just that the numbers were way too high on release (and are still a little high for some stuff). I'd remove insta-kill from hand of pain/hand of prayer (wiping over and over 3 mins because one member screwed up is just frustrating, just let the party eventually die to attrition) and just have it do high damage + atrophy/bleed, cut the damage wayyyyyyyy down on Judgement Nisi, have Nisi get recast after Royal Pentacles, and increase the enrage timer of A4S by like 1:30 or so. Nisi is just a retarded mechanic as it is now and there's a reason nearly everyone ignores it.

A4S left a really bad taste in my mouth, but at this point they should probably just leave it mostly intact. It's not like the gear/mount is going to be something everyone has to get their hands on for progression and there's no bonus story, so who cares.

My only suggested "nerfs" to A3S would be to increase the cast time of digititis by a few more seconds, as well as increase the delay before drainage detonation. Maybe change Hand of Pain HP threshold to 5%. Perhaps slow the movement speed of embolus ever so slightly.

Still causes wipes if you fuck up, but lessens the chance of slip ups caused by random lag/server delay.

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Originally Posted by CorbinDallas

My only suggested "nerfs" to A3S would be to increase the cast time of digititis by a few more seconds, as well as increase the delay before drainage detonation. Maybe change Hand of Pain HP threshold to 5%. Perhaps slow the movement speed of embolus ever so slightly.

Still causes wipes if you fuck up, but lessens the chance of slip ups caused by random lag/server delay.

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Maybe, make one phase only for A3S or just make A3S same as A3 but with an S

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Originally Posted by Shizukya

Maybe, make one phase only for A3S or just make A3S same as A3 but with an S

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You're funny.

It's not like I'm asking for the adds to have less hp, or for hand of prayer/parting to not one shot you if you fuck it up, or reduce the hp of liquid gaol, or for the boss to just do generally less damage.

I think what I've suggested is quite reasonable and retains most, if not all of the challenge of A3S.

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Originally Posted by CorbinDallas

You're funny.

It's not like I'm asking for the adds to have less hp, or for hand of prayer/parting to not one shot you if you fuck it up, or reduce the hp of liquid gaol, or for the boss to just do generally less damage.

I think what I've suggested is quite reasonable and retains most, if not all of the challenge of A3S.

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The mechanics u suggested to nerf, arent by far the pain in A3S, pain dont stand on "hand of pain" or brand passing but it starts from last phase. I think the mechanics are well tuned (actually the only fight with real mechanics), now that we have the new eu based servers, but just need to fix overall dps checks to make it doable by middlecore population and little dps decrease from boss, should make this fight fine for everyone.

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Originally Posted by Shizukya

The mechanics u suggested to nerf, arent by far the pain in A3S, pain dont stand on "hand of pain" or brand passing but it starts from last phase. I think the mechanics are well tuned (actually the only fight with real mechanics), now that we have the new eu based servers, but just need to fix overall dps checks to make it doable by middlecore population and little dps decrease from boss, should make this fight fine for everyone.

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I disagree, my static has made more progress on phase 4 in the last 2 weeks than we did for phase 2 and 3 for 2 months.

Phase 4 is a dance akin to Thordan, Titan, and every other 99% scripted fight. Compare it to phase 2/3, which are rng cluster fucks. Who gets tether, is it prayer/parting even though we try to bait out prayer, which side of the arena will the pistons/gears spawn, will ferrofluid target all of our primary stunners, where will we all end up after wash away. See my point?

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Originally Posted by CorbinDallas

I disagree, my static has made more progress on phase 4 in the last 2 weeks than we did for phase 2 and 3 for 2 months.

Phase 4 is a dance akin to Thordan, Titan, and every other 99% scripted fight. Compare it to phase 2/3, which are rng cluster fucks. Who gets tether, is it prayer/parting even though we try to bait out prayer, which side of the arena will the pistons/gears spawn, will ferrofluid target all of our primary stunners, where will we all end up after wash away. See my point?

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Yea ikr, p1-p3 RNG yea and p4 100% scripted, but pain for me, was really the last phase (ok im blm that says all)
You NEED team to be coordinated 100% for whole fight, thats how it works, u can still clear it with some death, unlike a4s thats the most lamish fight ever made