I know they are working on new egis or summons skins if you will since no one seems to like the way it is now. and with square saying that it will take a lot of work to make the summons the way we want them. I thought. how about this. we go fight primals like normal if we win we can learn to summon them. now once you do that instead of a preset triad how about we get a window just like we have for our choco companion and let us decide what we want that summon to be tank/dps/healer/random ? that way we can train our summons just like we can our chocobo .
what ya all think? seems it would be easier since we already have that in the game. just change it to summons instead of choco. ya know could even do that for beastmaster if they ever put it in the game.
summoner sugestion
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01-12-2016, 09:07 AMCronarsummoner sugestion
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01-12-2016, 09:17 AMMagiusNecros
We won't be summoning Primals in the vein you are suggesting and a lot of people seem to like the way Summoner plays now. Even if I feel it's a half baked Necromancer harping on the base class that is Arcanist.
Only thing revolving around Egi's is Carbuncle Glamour. That's it. And even that is pretty tight lipped. They may have dropped that consideration completely. Egi's were for the most part completely ignored and it's really been all about the player character getting more Aetherflow Skills and a new albeit limited trance mode. -
01-12-2016, 10:09 AMDarkstrideActually, it supposed to be more detailed that that if it is ever implemented:Quote:
Originally Posted by MagiusNecros
Live Letter XXI:
"During development, we thought long and hard about this, but we will not be adding new egi at this time. Looking at the long-term, instead of adding more pets, we felt it better to give more use to the job by adding actions to summoner. However, I’m sure many are wondering if they will have to continue looking at the same egi forever, but we are planning to add a system in the future that will allow you to change the appearance of your egis, including Carbuncle, but their stats will remain the same."
...and then later:
"Q7. Can you please let us know the current progress for the system where we can change the looks of summoner egi?
A7. We haven’t been able to address this yet. We’ll need to make this work with all the actions and we’re going to start working on this, so please give us some more time. Even if we were going to change their appearance, we would need to create the effects, sound, and actions for each egi, so it’ll require some time. We’re still deciding if we’re going to add these as we’re done with each one, or add them all at once, so please be patient while we work on this."
It's more than just a Carbuncle glamour that they initially proposed.
However, it's entirely possible we may never see this be a reality. They haven't released any more information and it's possible they haven't even started implementing it.
It feels more like hopeful brainstorming. -
01-12-2016, 11:26 AMGralna
Or we could just leave summoners as they are, currently well balanced, fun, and versatile.
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01-12-2016, 12:47 PMAlberelThis is a discussion of cosmetic options for the pets. Balance, fun and versatility don't really come into this as these changes would have no impact on anyone that isn't interested.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gralna
OP I think what you're proposing is actually more or less what the pet glamour system is intended to be. The reason it's taking so long is because they have to create new animations and skill effects for all of the skills depending on which egi is using them. -
01-12-2016, 01:24 PMGunspecPretty sure the reason its taking so long is that they haven't started yet. The only in-game suggestion is Alphinaud's ruby and onyx carbuncles, while the summoner quests clearly indicate that our characters try and fail to summon new primal egi. Behind the scenes we've seen nothing about egi glamour, despite seeing mock-ups of primal pets, with Ifrit landing in 3.1.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alberel
Now, this skepticism is from a person who listened to Blizzard talk about new character models in WoW for over 5 years before they finally showed evidence of those models being in progress, so have faith if you want. Personally, if they don't show me even a rough sketch drawn out on a bar napkin, I won't believe they're doing anything at all. -
01-12-2016, 05:21 PMSaccharinThe way things are going I bet it will be a paid service.Quote:
Originally Posted by MagiusNecros
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01-12-2016, 06:13 PMLemuria
"Summoners" do less summoning than Machinist's do with their pets. Can we really still call it that? We could rename it Ravager to reflect the reliance on DoT and it would make a lot more sense. I'm pretty sure SE doesn't care about the Egi's in the least bit, so glamours are probably on the far-back burner, assuming it even left the rumour stage. It's nice that we finally got an actual nuke (seriously, trying to kill adds with DoT is a pain in the a- err, bum), but our pets have only ever had four skills, none of which are particularly amazing.
I'd love to see them flesh out summons a bit more, but that seems as likely as winning the jumbo cactpot. -
01-13-2016, 12:40 AMNaliee
Because what you suggest sounds awfully alot like it worked in FFXI. You go smack primal's butt and you learn to summon it.
Plus I doubt that they gonna change the WHOLE Lore and SMN job quests for that. -
01-13-2016, 12:59 AMThe_Greatest_Evil
We need a Necromancer class with 50 skeletons and 50 demons army's.
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01-13-2016, 01:03 AMNalienIt actually would be quite a lot of work to do... Carbuncle is easy enough, they're pallet swaps, Carbuncle has both Tank and Mage movesets, they'd just need to give him animations for Melee and they're basically done there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkstride
The Egis, though... Well, if they're working it how I think they're working it, they need to give each Egi each moveset. Ifrit needs animations for Tank and Mage. Garuda needs them for Tank and Melee. And so on. That's the only way I can see Egi-Glamours going down well, if they keep Garuda as a Mage, and just go "But you can have Ramuh as Mage instead!", then that doesn't address the underlying reason Egi-Glamours are desired... Titan and Shiva could be Tanks, for example, but I want to use Shiva-Egi! I'd never get to see her though, because Tank-Egi is never really used... The only way to really give us Egi-Glamours is to say "Pick an Egi, and all three of your summons will be that", or something similar. Personally I'd opt for using that unused offhand slot Summoner (and every Job that isn't Paladin) has. Unlocking Arcanist gives you a Ruby Gem to equip there, makes your pet Carbuncle (whether they want to bother with Topaz/etc. as well is up to them). The Summoner quests reward you with Inferno/Tremor/Vortex Gems for their respective Egis. Equipping the Vortex Gem means you only summon Garuda-Egi, be that Tank, Mage, or Melee version. The remaining Egis can then be obtained somehow. All they're really need to do beyond that is lock the Summon skills behind having a Gem equipped, the same way Shield Bash is locked behind having a shield equipped.
Basically, while the models for some of them already exist (Ramuh-Egi, for example), the animations do not. That's what is taking up most of their time. Ramuh-Egi perhaps has a moveset for being a Mage pet, but for Egi-Glamours to work properly, he needs moves for Tank and Melee. That's what is taking so long.
I kind of hope they keep Enkindle special though... Rather than Ifrit getting a Mage and Tank Enkindle, I'd rather see all of them have their own thing, with Enkindle being rebalanced to prevent one of them being the best. Though ideally I guess I'd like them to be situational... This game lacks Healing Ruby... Wonder is Scholar can get Carbuncle as well... -
01-13-2016, 01:39 AMDarkstrideI'm not confident that SE is going to put that much work and focus on a cosmetic QoL feature that only affects one job. As you stated, its more complex than I think some players are realizing. I mean, we might get something at some point, but I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for a full Egi glamour system.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalien
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01-13-2016, 02:00 AMNalienTrue enough, though after some recent editions I'm not entirely sure the developers are prioritizing the right things anymore...Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkstride
Personally, I don't even want Egi-Glamours. I'd rather take the two half-baked concepts they mashed together to make Summoner, and make two solid Jobs out of it... The whole DoT management/Fester thing strikes me as something that would have been perfect for Red Mage (as do Physick and Resurrect being in their skill list), meanwhile the concept of having one summon out has always annoyed me. I'd rather see all the summons be part of a rotation that builds up to Bahamut/Dreadwyrm Trance. Then you have a Summoner which is actually, you know, summoning... -
01-13-2016, 02:43 AMCronar
but that is what they do now. I had to beat the primals before I could do the job quest to summon them.
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01-13-2016, 03:12 AMAlberelTo be fair it affects three jobs. Scholars will be able to revert to Carbuncles if they wish and it could easily be adapted to give MCH some options as well. It also gives the devs a lot more freedom with pet jobs in the future.Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkstride
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01-13-2016, 03:31 AMDarkstrideAlthough Summoner has already begun being altered in both gameplay and lore to focus more on Trances and invoking primal energy rather than constructing Egi's as pets. It just feels like the time has passed for Egi glamour to be a true priority or even a serious venture due to the amount of work involved.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alberel
Speaking of Summoner gameplay in general, the way it was implemented was sloppy and seemed to have an identity crisis. It had pets but wasn't really a pet job. It has since been "fixed" with Heavensward and now that Summoner has found a comfortable new style, pets are more of a secondary concern.
Personally I think SMN would have been better if it were never a pet job to begin with. They could have continued to use Carbuncle as the base class Arcanist did, but then gained primal summons as cooldown attacks as Summoner. For example:
*Carbuncle has a version of Contagion so no need for Garuda to have it
Flaming Crush: summons Ifrit (replaces Fester, same effect)
Mistral Shreik: summons Garuda for AoE damage and a debuff to magic damage resistance.
Landslide: summons Titan for frontal column attack that binds and slows.
Thunderspark: summons Ramuh for an AoE burst that leaves a damaging electrical field on the ground.
Whirlpool: summons Leviathan to create a whirlpool that draws enemies to its center.
Enkindle would alter the next primal ability to their signature attack.
I'm not sure Shiva would make sense in the regard given that she is summoned through a vessel and not as an independent primal entity.
Anyway, those are just my thoughts. -
01-13-2016, 03:34 AMNalienNah, the only thing that helps as far as other Jobs goes, is the method by which we'd set the Glamour, and that really shouldn't be too hard at all. It is the fact that Summoner pets have 13 unique skills (plus summon/dismiss, auto-attack, etc. animations) that is the problem, every potential pet needs to have an animation for those skills, and that adds up to a lot of work. Scholar has either 8 or 9 (depending on Dissipation, I can't recall if that has a special animation involving the pet). Machinist certainly should be possible from the get go though, since I wouldn't really call the 6 animations used particularly unique. Hypercharge is perhaps the most intricate one...Quote:
Originally Posted by Alberel
If they're still working on it, I would imagine that the method for applying such glamours is long done. It's the fact that, just going off 6 Egis (sorry Carby), they need to make 63 new animations (3 new Egi with the default 4 skills + Enkindle, existing 3 needing the 4 skills from the other two, and that says nothing for designing Shiva/Leviathan-Egi, who need summon animations (so does Ramuh-Egi? I forget how he appears in that fight), auto-attack animations, and so on...) for the various pet moves, that is what is delaying Egi-Glamours. Having those done doesn't help any other pet Job.
If anything I imagine this is putting them off future pet Jobs... Would certainly explain why Machinists pet is much more basic, although granted, if they added Beastmaster properly, all the animations it could use already exist... Though I can't see a proper Beastmaster existing in XIVs framework...
The main issue with that would be the lore, though a rework of the Job could stuff Leviathan/Ramuh/Shiva/etc. stuff into Heavensward. Personally I'd have cut Summoner off Arcanist completely (Arcanist strikes me as more of a healer at this point, and Bio/Virus/etc. work fairly well with Scholars lore as army medics, plus I'd have figured Carbuncle for a healer anyway) and made it a Heavensward Job, just like Dark Knight et al. Then you have to have beaten the main Primals in order to unlock it, meaning they could all exist on the Job in whatever manner one can come up with... I really think Summoner was just rushed out to be a new Job for ARR, Scholar too, but I think Scholar came out of it really well, while Summoner just never sat right with me...Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkstride
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01-13-2016, 05:54 AMFeliAikoI like the Gem-in-offhand-slot idea. I've also had similar views on how SMN could've thrived more had it been a HW job without the link to SCH via ACN, but main issue I feel is that they shouldn't have added a second DPS pet in the first place. Keep the Carbuncles, with the original 3 Primals represented as various spells/effects based on one of their signature attacks (like we have with Deathflare, albeit not necessarily as grandiose for each ability), and that would've set a better platform to incorporate the other 3 Primals as part of their HW toolkit, in addition to Deathflare.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalien
Or alternatively, if going with the Egi system, have it so you can freely switch between the two during battle (e.g. a CD that makes your next Summon I/II/III instant cast for no MP, available every 3 mins) so you can play to both Egi's strengths depending on the phase of a fight.