Current thoughts on SCH vs AST (Fun casual)

I main a paladin, and generally play tank in mmos, but I want to take a break when I hit 50 and am thinking of picking up a healer. My FC has a good White Mage, so I'm thinking Scholar or Astrologian first.

Wanted to hear what the current state of them are, such as the "fun to play" factor, as the few threads I've seen comparing them are mostly old, and I have heard AST has had some buffs?

AST -
Pro - Card mechanics seem a fun mechanic, and would be useful for FC parties. The stances seem interesting too, but seems only one is deemed "good"?
Con - The weapon looks a bit odd/clumsy. Nitpicking really, being fun to play is more important, looks I can play with (glamours)

SCH -
Pro - Everyone says it's the best. (Maybe because the fairy heals for them!) They can dps a lot more. Also comes with summoner as an added extra.
Con - Not a big fan of the fairy look, or being the most common healer. Again, not a dealbreaker.


So yeh, thoughts?

Thanks. 3 levels to go!

With this kind of question you're about to either:
awaken the kraken
stir the beehive
summon satan

I'll give you a more proper response later. For now, this serves as an "inb4"

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Originally Posted by Lyrica_Ashtine

With this kind of question you're about to either:
awaken the kraken
stir the beehive
summon satan

I'll give you a more proper response later. For now, this serves as an "inb4"

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Yeh I figured, I know there's a lot of... overprotective people in this game. Suffice it to say, I like all 3 of the healing classes, which is why the decision is being difficult. Tanking will always be my main, I just wanted a fun alt. I hear AST is good in PVP too which could be useful, but then scholar gives me summoner...

Anyway, hopefully people will restrain themselves from too much anger and hate. Leads to the dark side, y'know.

You'll need to level CNJ/WHM until you get Stoneskin anyway, so you could start there. Also, both SCH and AST have their pros and cons and they're both hard to master in terms of healing, so CNJ/WHM is a better choice for people who never healed before.

One more thing: do you have Heavensward? Because if you don't, you can't play AST. I ask this because you said you want to take a break when you hit 50 (not 60).

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Originally Posted by TatoRazzino

You'll need to level CNJ/WHM until you get Stoneskin anyway, so you could start there. Also, both SCH and AST have their pros and cons and they're both hard to master in terms of healing, so CNJ/WHM is a better choice for people who never healed before.

One more thing: do you have Heavensward? Because if you don't, you can't play AST. I ask this because you said you want to take a break when you hit 50 (not 60).

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I have CNJ to ... I cant remember, 15ish, for paladin already. But as my guild has a WHM main already I didn't want to dedicate time to making another one (unless it turns out it's the only one I enjoy playing as!) Figured I would test out the other choices first.

Also I do have heavensward, but I have done a lot of tanking lately and thought I deserved a break haha. 50 seemed a good idea as it gives me a lot of content unlocked, and I can buy my room in the FC house ^^

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Originally Posted by Nirurin

I have CNJ to ... I cant remember, 15ish, for paladin already. But as my guild has a WHM main already I didn't want to dedicate time to making another one (unless it turns out it's the only one I enjoy playing as!) Figured I would test out the other choices first.

Also I do have heavensward, but I have done a lot of tanking lately and thought I deserved a break haha. 50 seemed a good idea as it gives me a lot of content unlocked, and I can buy my room in the FC house ^^

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Then you could start leveling ACN until you unlock SCH. You need to complete the Main Story until you get access to The Holy See of Ishgard to unlock AST anyways, so you might as well do it as SCH. You'll have plenty of time to see if you like the job.

SCH has a healing style based on shielding and burning cooldowns/stacks to deal with spike damage when needed. It has less tools built in their GCD to deal with damage, though, which makes it a more complex healer than WHM. Basically, you have to be able to predict damage before it's dealt for a lot of the SCH tools to be effective. If you can't do that or if the damage was too big for your shields to hold, you'll have to burn stacks/cooldowns to heal through damage you couldn't prevent from happening.

This is actually very fun, but it requires more practice. WHM is far simpler in this aspect, since you have healing tools to deal with any kind of damage after it has been dealt.

AST has both healing styles, which you can choose from according to your personal preference in healing or when you need one of the styles to meet duty requirements. Since it can buff the party with cards, it has some weaknesses in healing/shielding, mostly in the AoE department, but their single target healing/shielding (when critical hits are not happening) is possibly the highest in the game. It's a complex job to master because you need to know a lot about how the game works, including the basics about the DPS rotation of every single job in the game; if you don't know that, you won't be able to play AST properly or at least make it equivalent in performance when compared to WHM/SCH.

I main AST, and it's my favorite healer so far, but I acknowledge that it's harder to play than the other two in some aspects and that may be frustrating to a lot of players out there.

If you're more interested in Dungeons than in hardcore end-game content, I'd choose SCH and not AST.

SCH's easier, synergizes better with WHM/AST than WHM + AST, and its raid mitigation is by far the best with Super-Virus, Fey Covenant, Soil, and Deployment Tactics Adlo. SCH has better MP, better AoE, better DPS.

You don't compare AST to SCH. SCH is Sir Smoke-A-Lot ... WHM is Nasty Nate, AST is Squirrel Master. Sir Smoke-A-Lot lets Nasty Nate and Squirrel Master tango over the fish's soap while he sits comfy at his home, smoking a lot.

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Originally Posted by Sleigh

SCH's easier, synergizes better with WHM/AST than WHM + AST, and its raid mitigation is by far the best with Super-Virus, Fey Covenant, Soil, and Deployment Tactics Adlo. SCH has better MP, better AoE, better DPS.

You don't compare AST to SCH. SCH is Sir Smoke-A-Lot ... WHM is Nasty Nate, AST is Squirrel Master. Sir Smoke-A-Lot lets Nasty Nate and Squirrel Master tango over the fish's soap while he sits comfy at his home, smoking a lot.

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I understand what you're saying, but that's one hell of a way of saying it lmao.

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Originally Posted by TatoRazzino

Then you could start leveling ACN until you unlock SCH.
....snip....
If you're more interested in Dungeons than in hardcore end-game content, I'd choose SCH and not AST.

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This whole thing was really helpful thanks :)

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Originally Posted by Sleigh

SCH's easier, synergizes better with WHM/AST than WHM + AST

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This much is true. Astrologians can technically fulfill the mitigator role in a way Scholar does, but it's nowhere as good. Among the healer combinations - without duplicates - White Mage + astrologian feels ass compared to White Mage/Astrologian paired up with a Scholar. Doesn't mean it's not viable, there are groups out there who actually do this and I've helped groups do savage as an Astrologian with a White Mage. It just feels less... optimal

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Originally Posted by Nirurin

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As you've mentioned aspects as "fun" and "the other healer" in your Free Company, whichever healer you'll ultimately decide on is your choice alone. There are some things to consider. Primarily; what do you consider fun? Instant gratification? Busy jobs? Dexterous jobs? Quick decision making jobs? All three healers has the aspect of "planning" and "managing" and, as much as some people want to deny it, a good share of the (endgame) community expects a certain degree of healer DPS. You could shrug it off and join the posse of "not my job". This does come with a certain stigma the community will brand you with.

So while we're on this topic, do elaborate the elements you like to define as "fun". That will help us help you more than some random opinions scattered left and right

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Originally Posted by Lyrica_Ashtine

So while we're on this topic, do elaborate the elements you like to define as "fun".

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I don't usually like simple/repetitive roles. Paladin (early levels) was slightly dull (I preferred the look compared to warrior) but I didn't notice it much because I was still learning all the dungeons etc, simple was good. Now I'm higher level I have more tools to play with, as well as cooldowns to keep track of in big fights. (I do intend to make a DRK eventually, not anytime soon).

All healers are complex enough for me, as healing as a job generally requires a fair bit of concentration.

I guess cool flashy and entertaining moves and animations are a plus, I suppose AST gets points for being new and having gravity haha. Shame it's 52 and not 50, I hear that causes it to be unusable quite often (roulettes I guess).

I use a ps4 controller, if that makes any difference. I think scholar is doable using controls, even with the pet commands.

Well AST is one of the most varied, non-repetition based healers due to cards rarely making duplicate pulls happen (unless it's Spire > Ewer > Spire pulls, those seem to happen more than they should). That and it doesn't really have the emergency heal factor of the other two healers, so you can't just use Indom/Assize when it gets rough, you have to survive an extra 3 seconds and it's a bit more exciting.

In terms of fun I think AST is high up there when you're getting good cards and generally things are going well. I think it's the least fun when people are being idiots, or if there's no one worthy of your cards which means you really shouldn't be there in the first place efficiency wise.

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Originally Posted by Sleigh

In terms of fun I think AST is high up there when you're getting good cards and generally things are going well. I think it's the least fun when people are being idiots, or if there's no one worthy of your cards which means you really shouldn't be there in the first place efficiency wise.

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And this is why I usually run Void Ark as WHM. Too many dumb people in there and all the cards get wasted, so why play AST? No mechanics in there make good use of Synastry, and all my single target heaking edge is wasted.

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Originally Posted by Sleigh

SCH's easier, synergizes better with WHM/AST than WHM + AST, and its raid mitigation is by far the best with Super-Virus, Fey Covenant, Soil, and Deployment Tactics Adlo. SCH has better MP, better AoE, better DPS.

You don't compare AST to SCH. SCH is Sir Smoke-A-Lot ... WHM is Nasty Nate, AST is Squirrel Master. Sir Smoke-A-Lot lets Nasty Nate and Squirrel Master tango over the fish's soap while he sits comfy at his home, smoking a lot.

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So many questions here?

Why does the fish have soap?

Why does a fish have the need for soap?

Why are people dancing on the fishes soap?

How do you teach this squirrel to tango? Is it good at the tango or just medicore? Or does it matter how good said squirrel is at the tango since its just a squirrel?


Jeez, the problem with these forum is you think yourself as a good healer, progress through raids, then get hit by this kind of advanced stuff you have never thought of yourself.

Healing as an AST how would i fit Fish Soap and Squirrel Tango into my healing rotation in say A4S?

All healer are Fun!
As a casual it doesn't matter your healing partner, WHT-WHT , SCH-SCH, AST - AST, don't care about that if you are not running endgame raids (60+).
I recommend you lvl WHT to 34(stoneskin), after that, you can try SCH or AST.
However, if you feel like you need to pick one you must have this in mind:

SCH is a DPS/Healer! You MUST DPS, if you play SCH without using his dos abilities you are wasting your potencial!

WHT is a powerful Healer! You can use Holy to dps and stun and also use selfbufs to make your heal even stronger. Its the best healing class for newbies ˆ_ˆ.

AST is a suport/Healer! You will rarely dps (people will rarely note that you are dpsing D:), However, you have Cards to power up your friends! Its a good class if you don't feel like a dps/healer.

Well this is the basic of each class. Try them and build your own opinion!

Scholar is more fun to play, whereas Ast is for those healers who want to push themselves, to find out what they are really made of.

The AST cards are a fun little "mini game" for me and I typically use AST for more casual/ easy content that I'm familiar with.

But for new content, I'd go with SCH overall. Having a guaranteed atk sp boost is better than relying on RNG

This is coming from the point of view of someone who's currently got this healing arsenal: 60 AST, 56 SCH, 50 WHM... Also bear in mind that I'm a scrub casual that enjoys the abuse of DF as my main form of playing.

AST
I like AST a lot. I chose it mainly from a "lore" perspective, as my character is sailor moon based, so I thought "oooh stars," and figured she had to be one, lol. But I do quite enjoy it. The RNG of the cards sometimes makes me laugh. There's nothing quite like setting up an AOE-Bole or AOE-Balance in a fight (which then promptly misses the BLM EVERY. SINGLE. TIME.)... but sometimes you burn all your cooldowns and all you get is a buffed Spear which makes me want to hang my head in shame.

Heals themselves feel powerful enough to keep up. Sometimes, between all the dodging and healing, it gets tricky trying to weave card buffing in there too.


SCH
Currently enjoying it a lot. Haven't seen any new healing spells yet by 56 (haven't done the job quest yet). It's feeling a bit under-powered to where I was as an AST at this point of the game, actually. Can't tell if it's because I've been splitting my attributes between SCH and SUM. It isn't gear, as I saved it all from when I was leveling my AST up.

I like SCH for the proactiveness and being on top of incoming dmg. I usually find it better to have the fairy on obey, otherwise she just burns all her abilities whenever. "Wow, I could really have used whispering dawn right now... too bad she popped it during that single target pull where no one took damage."

The challenge this class brings is being aware of your aether stacks and not burning them out too fast.


WHM
It's been a long time since I've played my WHM, so I'm super rusty. But way back when, I enjoyed it because of the over-powered heals. Everything you have in your arsenal is geared towards recovering from bad pulls, heavy pulls, mitigating spike damage reactively, etc.

Challenge: This is probably inexperience talking but compared to the other two classes, I felt that this one has the most potential to burn through mana. Shroud is your regen spell (it also reduces your aggro, so it's very handy), but the last time I played this class, it didn't feel like enough. Aggro generation in general seemed higher as a WHM compared to the other two. Don't cast renew habitually. If it's still up on the tank before the next pull, s/he will never clear it off and you will immediately gain 100% of the aggro off the pull.

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Originally Posted by Nirurin

I don't usually like simple/repetitive roles. Paladin (early levels) was slightly dull (I preferred the look compared to warrior) but I didn't notice it much because I was still learning all the dungeons etc, simple was good. Now I'm higher level I have more tools to play with, as well as cooldowns to keep track of in big fights. (I do intend to make a DRK eventually, not anytime soon).

All healers are complex enough for me, as healing as a job generally requires a fair bit of concentration.

I guess cool flashy and entertaining moves and animations are a plus, I suppose AST gets points for being new and having gravity haha. Shame it's 52 and not 50, I hear that causes it to be unusable quite often (roulettes I guess).

I use a ps4 controller, if that makes any difference. I think scholar is doable using controls, even with the pet commands.

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I'm going to step on a landmine myself here. But here we go: The act of healing itself is simple. In most content you can simply get away by waiting for things to happen and fill up the HP bars afterwards. Something happened? Press 1 to cure. That melee got cleaved? Press 1 to cure. Tank took a big hit? Press 2 to cure II. I think you get it by now. Making use of your entire kit and and pushing your own limits without burdening the party is a whole different cookie, but I'll omit this for now.

As for "simple/repetitive" jobs, White mage may actually be the closest thing that would describe this. They're pretty much the bare bones healer among the choices you have as they're pretty much either healing or dealing damage with the latter being optional. But considering this wasn't within the choices you had in mind, it shouldn't matter. Rather, you've been quite... enthusiastic, if I were to describe it, about Astrologian. Perhaps you've already made your choice

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Originally Posted by Lyrica_Ashtine

Rather, you've been quite... enthusiastic, if I were to describe it, about Astrologian. Perhaps you've already made your choice

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I like both of them, they both have good points (and bad). I guess I just wanted some opinions before I made my first choice, but I expect I'll end up trying them both eventually anyway!

I'm level 50 now, but I suspect I'm still a long way in the MSQ before I get to ishgard :( so AST may just have to wait.

@eternalstar01 - you should definitely open up your job quests with SCH. 52 you'll get Indomitability. An AOE heal with a cure Potency of 400. level 54 is Broil, it deals unaspected damage with a potency of 170. And at 56 you get Deployment Tactics. It basically lets you spread your eye for an eye and galvanize effects from Succor to party members near the target.

I personally switched from SCH to AST because I like the challenge. I struggle a bit in Savage with AST because my partner is a whm so I had to go back to sch but I generally only use AST for everything else. It still needs a bit of work with NOCT stance to make it a good whm/ast team.

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Originally Posted by eternalstar01

SCH
Currently enjoying it a lot. Haven't seen any new healing spells yet by 56 (haven't done the job quest yet). It's feeling a bit under-powered to where I was as an AST at this point of the game, actually. Can't tell if it's because I've been splitting my attributes between SCH and SUM. It isn't gear, as I saved it all from when I was leveling my AST up.

I like SCH for the proactiveness and being on top of incoming dmg. I usually find it better to have the fairy on obey, otherwise she just burns all her abilities whenever. "Wow, I could really have used whispering dawn right now... too bad she popped it during that single target pull where no one took damage."

The challenge this class brings is being aware of your aether stacks and not burning them out too fast.

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SCH gains emergency tactics to turn a succor into medica with a 30 second CD, and indomitability; an OGCD 400 potency AOE heal with a 30 second CD

SCH actually feels very much OP in all 4 man content from lvl30 onward because of how little they need to heal, how little they actually have to cast when they do (especially when they get lustrate), and their constant efficient AOE damage from bane + blizzard 2, which they can get away with very often thanks to the aforementioned two points, and never have to worry about MP when AOEing. Playing AST after SCH is a comparatively painful/dull experience; AST tools for actual healing still amounts to "WHM with less toys"

just go astro like everyone else I know haha. Start with scholar. Easy stuff.