Llama no more

What does it mean to be a Llama?

Well apparently it means that NM Loot is only yours while it can benifit the LS
This is how i felt when I was asked to give up my barbarian's bardiche because i intend to take a hiatus from the game.

I have been honest and loyal to the LS since i joined and feel like ive earned the items i have and well my question is is it even proper for a linkshell leader to make such a request?

I wouldn't say it was an unreasonable request, as long as it was only a request, and, if you agreed, it came with the guarantee that it comes straight back to you when your hiatus is complete.

I do believe you deserve what you work for, and whether or not you are online, it is yours. I'd think of it akin to a neighbor borrowing your tools, or whatever.

But on the other hand, if it was more of a demand under the guise of a request, as if to say your stuff actually belongs to the ls, then that's just too far.

If you earn it, its yours. Unique/Un-tradable or otherwise is my view.

However, If you quit, it would be respectful to give an item to someone else, rather than let it rot.

But ASKED to hand an item back to the guild when taking a break from the game? As a leader of a shell, I would never ask that of members. I find that insulting. Its like saying the time you put into obtaining something isn't worth a damn and the items you get are on "loan" as long as you stick around.

Well, that's what you get when you don't ask questions of guilds before you join them I guess.

Better luck next guild man.

Look for a shell with clear loot policies.

Depends on the duration of the hiatus. If it's a couple weeks due to a death in the family or something, then no. If it's for a full year, say until 2.0 comes out, then why not? There will surely be better stuff by that time.

And when they return with nothing because they handed it all back over to the shell, then what?

Its not an issue of "better stuff will come anyway, just hand it back"

Its a matter of "I put in the time, I earned it, its mine to do with as I please"

Guilds don't own the time and effort their players put into the game. Nor should they own the items obtained by it.

So should I be pissed off because my friend requested me all my tanking gear (thats full materiaed btw and I had all my personal effort making the materia or buying them w/e) for some time while I'm not using it? Uh... I'm not using it, so... what's the catch?

I dunno why you ragequitted the LS for something so silly. You know you'd have your axe back as soon as you came back to the game. We all make our efforts to have those desired items, yes, but liking or not, you had help from other 14 people (back in the days) for getting a SINGLE axe, so I think you should at least have considered some appreciation into OTHER people's efforts to get YOUR item before trying to start some sort of flame wars or bringing the LS name down. It's called humility.

I had respect for you, but this is just bullshit. This is one of the most lame topics I've ever seen.

And Mog, we might be having trouble with some stuff, but you're in no position to say wether llamas has or not "clear loot policies" or talk whatever other shit, since you're not in it. Just because we are not desperate hardcore guys (that btw merge with whatever other LS they find on their way down to keep themselves powered up like you do) it doesnt mean we are not serious. I have respect for you Mog, really, so if you wanna keep your respect from people you STILL have, please don't talk about what you don't know. Every LS has their bullshit. Daeva has their issues and their bullshit, llamas has theirs, period. Let's be adults and not play 'I'm better than you' or point fingers just because we dont have anything better to do. LS 'wars' is just as lame as this topic.

And btw, you should have talked to the LS instead of just quitting without saying anything or even explaining why you did it. Having to come to the forums to know the real purpose (and discovering it was a really stupid one) is just surreal.

The truth is that...

http://26.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lq...uwrbo1_400.gif

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Originally Posted by Brainriot

So should I be pissed off because my friend requested me all my tanking gear (thats full materiaed btw and I had all my personal effort making the materia or buying them w/e) for some time while I'm not using it? Uh... I'm not using it, so... what's the catch?

I dunno why you ragequitted the LS for something so silly. You know you'd have your axe back as soon as you came back to the game. We all make our efforts to have those desired items, yes, but liking or not, you had help from other 14 people (back in the days) for getting a SINGLE axe, so I think you should at least have considered some appreciation into OTHER people's efforts to get YOUR item before trying to start some sort of flame wars or bringing the LS name down. It's called humility.

I had respect for you, but this is just bullshit. This is one of the most lame topics I've ever seen.

And Mog, we might be having trouble with some stuff, but you're in no position to say wether llamas has or not "clear loot policies" or talk whatever other shit, since you're not in it. Just because we are not desperate hardcore guys (that btw merge with whatever other LS they find on their way down to keep themselves powered up like you do) it doesnt mean we are not serious. I have respect for you Mog, really, so if you wanna keep your respect from people you STILL have, please don't talk about what you don't know. Every LS has their bullshit. Daeva has their issues and their bullshit, llamas has theirs, period. Let's be adults and not play 'I'm better than you' or point fingers just because we dont have anything better to do. LS 'wars' is just as lame as this topic.

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I'm just going to point out:

Quote:

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you're in no position to say wether llamas has or not "clear loot policies" or talk whatever other shit, since you're not in it.

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And then....

Quote:

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Just because we are not desperate hardcore guys (that btw merge with whatever other LS they find on their way down to keep themselves powered up like you do) it doesnt mean we are not serious.

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Seems you are above your own criticism.
Tell Mog not to make claims against Llama, then proceed to make claims against DoW.
Hypocritical? Check.

I might add that they came to us, we didn't approach them. Just to ease any rumors you might have heard.

/sitback

http://tumblr-gifs.com/pics/47.gif

Ok since I'm the one who made the request let me explain the way it happened.

Krysallis had been logged off for months, he came back to FFXIV for a couple days.
He immediately says "They are charging next month, so you won't see me until 2.0"

That's over an entire year away. If he intends to quit the game, 100%, not log in for 1 entire year, at which point we should have a new level cap, and incredibly easier-to-obtain and better gear, than by the time he returns his axe becomes worthless.

However, in the meantime, that axe is rather useful to members who will be playing -right now- during that time he is offline.

It was not a demand, it was a "Hey, if you are going to quit for 365 days, knowing 7 new classes are coming, and a level cap increase, can you let one of our other marauders, one of your friends even, use the axe while you are away with the understanding that it is still your axe".

I even made it clear it would remain his, and it was a request. I went to lunch and came back an hour later and he had dropped the shell. I figured that, since he had been with us for over 1 full calendar year, and had good raid attendance, he might be willing to put his LS before himself since he had the intention of NOT BEING ONLINE FOR AN ENTIRE YEAR.

He made a clear declaration he would not be seen for 1 year. Not in llama, not in ffxiv, period. He was going to another game.

In this regard, is it so horrible to make a -request- not a -demand- that since he has a tradable NM Axe that still maintains one of the highest damage ratings in the game? Knowing that when he returns we could easily get him a better weapon, or his original back if he so chose it.


And Mog, I don't get in between your LS's issues I'd appreciate it if you don't get between ours.
I don't know why Krysallis had to make this public, I had considered Krysallis a friend and I have no idea why he decided to take it public. He even said ok he'd let us use the axe, no problem ...

All he had to do is say something like "Nah man I'd rather hang onto it, I hope you understand" and the response would have been "No problem man". Loot given to you is your loot, and "loan to the LS" is not the same as "We are seizing your gear".

Just paying in the same coin for a bit of lols Mog, I know how to be hypocritical too.

That finger pointing I did was moslty so you know how good it is to say stuff based on rumors or whatever crap people say ingame or here at the forums without knowing the true story.

So basically... We should both shut up.

The TLDR version is we asked him if he would loan it to the LS since he was quitting until 2.0, not 1.20, 2.0. 1 year away. Not a demand, a request. The exact details in the above post.

this post is just. . . .
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...uj11qcf3v2.gif

I have respect for ya Hirya. You're cool in my book. I hope we are above grudges, just a tiff here and there XD

Edit: Eadini,

Ill sit out of your qualms if you stay out of mine.

Deal?

Uh Mog I haven't been getting in your qualms. I believe we had this deal like 7 months ago already on the Zam forums.

If there has been something that irked your members you're always available to send me a tell and I'll try to work it out. I'm always willing to compromise and handle any disputes. I'd appreciate other LS leaders (especially on our server where we have to play in the same fields) not poking their heads into the business of our members and their issues directly related to us, even if in a public forum. It helps keep the peace.

Nonetheless, "Deal" Mog.

First off i would like to say that what Eadieni has said is not entirely accurate i said that i would not be renewing my sub when SE decided to put the subscription fees back in (what i did not say is the reason is because i feel that the game still needs more content) i gave no date when i may or may not return i said nothing about 2.0 and i was not asked in the way he describes it was not said i will get the weapon back, it was a well you wont be needing it and there will be better later statement. If it had been said that i would be able to get the item back i may have felt more comfortable about it. And i will mention this is not the first time ive heard this issue come up.

There is also the point where Nm nites went bye bye and after the release of the raid zones There was just not much activity so yes my login time went way down

During my time with the Llamas i had fun, made some friends but in the end i question the decisions made by the leadership

This post was not designed to start a battle between linkshells it was to vent my frustration and to see what the general populous thinks

The only times we brought something like this up on teamspeak was because, frequently, we would get someone their NM weapon and they would quit never to be seen again.

Yoli
Shana
Viki Knight
Rock Pierce
Mirale
Maikyo
Lautus
Loecke
Silenas

See? That's just a quick look at the DKP list of people we got gear and then they quit FFXIV or stopped using their character.

You must have bad memory Krysallis because you got 7 items from us according to the DKP list, in the 195 raids we did before we stopped tracking DKP when it became apparent it doesn't fit with FF14s loot system.

We've never gotten or asked anyone to give their loot back, except we did comment that it's incredibly annoying people always quit FF14 like 2 days after they get all the drops they want.

We never quit world NMs, you just haven't been online. We just did several buffalos and dodores this week. Just because you aren't online doesn't mean we aren't doing events on our regular schedule. When new content comes out we always shift focus to that for a couple weeks but we never abandon content. You quit FFXIV for about 5 months, came back at Darkhold time, quit after a week, then came back for 1.19.

A -request- was made because you were quitting until 2.0 Don't deny you said that. I flat out asked you in a tell if you were 100% quitting at Pay to Play, and I asked when you would return and you said 2.0. I THEN asked you if you would be willing to let the LS use it, and I KNOW FOR 100% FACT I USED THE WORDS "With the understanding that it would still be your weapon".

Don't try to make me look like some bad guy nazi here. I asked you a favor, and you said yes, but instead of following through you quit the LS and trolled us on the forums. You've done 160 raids with us what would make you think I'd suddenly change my policy to be a dick to you? Nobody sticks around for 160 raids if the leader is a jackass to their members.

(edit for numbers: thats 195 raids, 72 drops, he got 7 of them so he got 10% of all the loot in llama during the periods we tracked dkp, which ended at 1.18)

Not going to let you change what was said.
You're not going to change "Hey can you let tranquil borrow your weapon while your gone" into "Give us your weapon back because you won't be using it". I don't take time to defend accusations, then again we don't really have any that need defending, but if you're trying to label us as the LS who loans members their gear rather than giving it to them, at least back it up with something.

I don't want new recruits thinking their gear is on loan to them. That's not the case, it never has been and never will be. He's blowing something way out of proportion and didn't even take the time to talk to one of us. If he had a misunderstanding all he had to do was ask for clarification, not ragequit and flame us on this page.

I would never do that, and never have. Any of my members who happen to see this thread please feel free to comment how I've treated them in relation to loot.

How did I know this was about PL guys? :p

I feel bad seeing my name (Yoli) at the top of that list.

I came back and made my Elvaan around the time the new things were coming out, and the Ul'dahn scimitar was better than the Aeolian one, so I didn't really think twice about letting it sit around (not that other HQ swords hadn't been better already, but...) I can log in and get it to you if anyone really cares about it/repairs it so I can trade.

Not sure why I vanished quietly as an aside (well, I know I vanished because doing the same few nm's on instant timers was getting dull, but I'm not sure why it was quietly).

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Any of my members who happen to see this thread please feel free to comment how I've treated them in relation to loot.

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As an ex-member if that counts, I'd say loot used a system of DKP that I didn't like, but that was quite clearly set down and consistently explained both on the web and, if someone had questions, they could get them answered in person as well. I'd say that things people got were certainly theirs, and it doesn't seem likely to me you'd make a huge fuss /requiring/ someone give something back to the ls if they were quitting/leaving/taking a break. Although I can perhaps see you asking for it... but I don't think that's a big deal. As long as you asked nicely without the underlying expectation of a yes in reply.

Obviously something happened / was said between you and Krys, and you each see it in slightly different versions. What it was there's no way to say. It doesn't seem like this should be making that much drama anyways because 1: the gear will be out of date so soon (if it isn't already? I don't know it's stats...) and 2: you might have asked more rudely than you thought (or he may have been more sensitive than was necessary), but you probably didn't /demand/ that he give it back. Obviously your DKP system is gone/changed from when I was there, but you never seemed like the type to claim an item was just on loan from the LS.

Anyways. Yeah. About the sword, if anyone really cares I can find a time to get it back if you'll fix it. I work nights though, presently, so have had my schedule flipped.

Hey Yoli long time no see.

I cited you as a reference merely to say that you were one of our first members to get a NM weapon, and then about 3 days after getting it you logged out for about 9 months. It was an example of the effort involved to get someone their gear to have it essentially wasted because it was never used to its potential.

No we don't want your sword back it's yours, it was an example. We've also got plenty of those. The only reason I asked Krysallis if he would be willing to loan it was, we had a run of bad luck on Axe drops lately, and all members who needed one had one except for Tranquil.

Tranquil was nagging us like 9 times a day for a Barbarians Bardiche, and we'd kill 3-4 buffalos then go back to regular raids, but no drop. So, Krysallis at the same time said he wasn't going to pay for FF14 and wouldn't be seen for a long time, so I asked if he'd be willing to loan it to the LS.

That's it. That really is all that transpired. Then I get a message from Hirya that Krysallis made a big trolling post on the forums.

Of course at the time you were in Llama we were DKP and you did note your objections to it, but at that time we assumed FFXIV would be like FFXI where there would be lots of items in 15-person raids with heavy competition and not a lot of loot to go around with high demand for it. Well, being that FFXIV is moving towards 8-person Non-Tradeable loot the DKP model didn't work for us and we moved to a more fair system.

/grabs the popcorn