Is the Desire to try gone?

as simple as title. Ive had many experiences where people just lack the desire to try and accomplish anything in this game but expect just as much reward I think this is one of the biggest problems with our playerbase discuss and such.

(reason for thread kind of unrelated but provoked me to make it... doing lvl 60 roulette before downtime get neverreap as always 28 minutes to finish it no problem right? then it begins tank decides to single pull dps single target summoner decides dreadwyrm trance is a bad idea so i pull more heal more dps more exhaust mp on every pull let them know that downtime is soon can we try to get this done no response just keep going get to final boss server goes down disappointment ensues.)

Yes and no. Mostly no, but the really, really long gap that was 3.0-->3.1 caused a great deal of boredom with current content - especially at the end game level. It was far far too long to sit just on Fractal and Neverreap for EX and it's still out to at least February for the next round of raids. If that doesn't create a little apathy I don't know what would.

Roulette does still occasionally get groups that are new-ish and uncomfortable with mass pulling the 60 dungeons.

have to assess the situation and check out there gear, they may have been trying a lot harder than groups that clear quickly but being new to it move slower

If there is right now, it's due to burn out. There isn't any long lasting current in 3.1 that people can throw themselves against, so when Relics came and it turned out you just had to do everything you already grew tired of grinding for 5 months people got fed up. I can't blame them for it, I do this grind without even actively paying attention.

It's burn out, pure & simple. The fact that people can complete a dungeon by doing the absolute minimum means that some people do it that way, often whilst engaging in another activity (Netflix seems popular). It's not how I could play personally as I'd feel embarrassed to do so (call it pride or public perception); as a result I've just been playing on rare occasions rather than adopt the style of many.

It's not something I saw too much of in ARR, it was definitely there but nowhere near as prevalent. With HW I'm seeing people who have similar values to myself (that I expressed above) who have adopted this play style. To me that suggests sheer burn out & boredom with the content.

It's somewhat the way the game is designed also, specifically the dungeons. You can have players doing non optimal things and still clear most things. Only drawback really is it takes forever.

If mechanics can be ignored they mostly are in favor of speed so it just turns into mostly faceroll.

New content essentially making you do reruns of old content and the new content like Void Ark gating drops weekly gives people little incentive to do them. I didn't even do the Scholar 4 quest chain they added in HW 3.15 since I had heard there really wasn't much to it. I used to do it once weekly to get my farthing but I have little incentive to buff up my BLM if I don't plan on doing hard raid content that requires dedicated and coordinated players.

There really isn't much to do and I can easily invest my time in doing other things. I'm to the point I only log in once a day or even a week to see what my retainers brought me.

Burnout!? No my friends, these my 15$ nextflix warriors really do play without trying and expecting rewards. They existed long before 3.0.

In the past we called them leechers. In modern day gaming we call them casuals.

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Originally Posted by RickXRolled

Burnout!? No my friends, these my 15$ nextflix warriors really do play without trying and expecting rewards. They existed long before 3.0.

In the past we called them leechers. In modern day gaming we still call them leechers.

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Fixed that for you.... casuals are not always leechers, even if leechers are (almost) always casuals. I, for one, am a casual, meaning I play for only a short period per play session, but I am not a leecher... tanking doesn't really lend itself well to leeching.

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Originally Posted by RickXRolled

Burnout!? No my friends, these my 15$ nextflix warriors really do play without trying and expecting rewards. They existed long before 3.0.

In the past we called them leechers. In modern day gaming we call them casuals.

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No, those are still leechers. Even casuals hate those guys. Probably even more than the more aggressive players do because we've taken the time to break ourselves away from gathering or triple triad or treasure maps to do some current content and we want it to go smoothly, not carry someone who can't be bothered to put in a minimum of effort.

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Originally Posted by MikaIto

as simple as title. Ive had many experiences where people just lack the desire to try and accomplish anything in this game but expect just as much reward I think this is one of the biggest problems with our playerbase discuss and such.

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In my opinion accomplishments in this game are so short term there's no real reason to try for them,

There's a thread where Yoshi says players are jumping servers to try and clear savage fights because of there difficulty. It may well be the case for a lot of people.

However I also think that for many people the truth is it's just not even worth trying or making an effort because they know 2 things.

1: it'll be nerfed in a month. and
2: there'll be better items in a month that are likely much easier to get. so even if you did try and manage to get them you'd still be tossing them next patch.

I think both of these things take away a lot of peoples desire to even try a lot of stuff. and it wouldn't surprise me if that's also part of the reason players have been jumping servers to try and find groups.

It was certainly something I found in 2.0 when I was wanting to do coil and most of my friends couldn't be bothered as the loot was only going to be junk in a month anyway.

Then on the flip side you have the ridiculously easy stuff that doesn't require any real effort to clear so again why bother. it's like polar extremes.

just my thoughts anyway.

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Originally Posted by SendohJin

the vertical progression just makes it pointless to work that hard for stuff that just won't last very long.

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Amen

Nobody is obligated to 'speed run' for your convenience. If you want to specifically 'speed run' then queue up with people in advance to do just that. Expecting everybody you encounter in the duty finder to do it is just selfish and silly - and I say this as someone who regularly signs up to the duty roulette as a tank.

Some people prefer to play it safe. Others don't enjoy rushing through a dungeon as quickly as possible simply because they may not be familiar with their class and/or they'd rather play it safe for the sake of avoiding a potential wipe. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that - since 'speed runs' are neither necessary or mandatory.

Those people are always there. It varies from group to group. I do a lot of Duty Finder instances and if I had a quarter for every time I was aghast at how poorly another player was performing, or their failure to use an important skill, I'd be able to quit my job and play video games.

Personally, I have a great desire to maximize my DPS in Expert and 60 roulette, and try as hard as I can. I get really mad at myself if I mess anything up or miss a timer.

That said, I don't care strongly about trying in Trial or 50 roulette. I do them, I try enough needed to win, but meh.

The weird one for me is Void Ark. In some ways, I find it more fun to mess up. I don't actively try to mess up, but I goof around a lot in there. It's just brain numbingly boring otherwise. I usually goof around by throwing out random stuff in alliance chat "What happens to a bunch of catgirls that take up battle against a Tentacle beast?" etc. Though that often results in me focusing less on maximizing my potential.

I think it comes down to three aspects:
1. Difficulty of Content
2. Composition of party members (are they a static, fc mates or strangers etc)
3. Number of players present

I am going to elaborate more on each now.

Difficulty of Content
When content is tuned ridiculously easy, I (and I am sure many others) do not care to try very hard. It's easy content, so we faceroll through it. As we do this over and over, the content becomes excessively boring. It's at this point we entertain ourselves in a number of ways that all detract from our potential. This could be things like watching netflix, goofing around, jumping in circles, chatting to your FC and so on. With my example above, Void Ark is in a weird spot. It was very easy for a raid, I cleared it without problem on my first run and with having 0 idea what any of the mechanics were. In fact, I didn't know some of the mechanics until my 5th time in, but despite this, it was easy to clear and I didn't die or anything. That said, it's hard enough that there are mechanics, and the more people who goof off, the more difficult the content becomes.

Composition of party members
I am not sure about all of you, but I try the hardest when I am with my static. I want to be at my top game for them, as I want them to be at their top game for me. This is where I really try.

My second best set of people to play with is usually randoms. In this case, I don't want to be the person wasting peoples time, so I do what I can to get us through the best.

My third best set of people to play with are usually friends. I care about these people and don't want to waste their time, but I know that they'll forgive me for mixups and I'll forgive them. It's more light-hearted.

My worst set of people to play with are usually FC mates. These are people that I care about, but probably less so than friends or static-mates. They're close enough that the run is light-hearted, but not close enough that I don't care if I mess up. These runs actually tend to be the worst for me. FC party runs of Void Ark are the absolute worst. To clarify on this, I find that everyone in the party acts this way, not just myself.

Number of Players Present
This is just a factor of how much impact you have on an encounter. When there are 24 people there, your impact is much less than when there are 4 people. In a dungeon run, I can expect to do about 50% of the DPS of the run on my SMN (on average), whereas on a Void Ark run I can expect it to be closer to 9-10%. So when I miss my deathflare in a 4-person party, it makes a pretty substantial difference. When I miss it in Void Ark, meh.

Well when the shiny new content is geared toward i170 players and everyone is running around i200+ it a faceroll experience for everyone. I've said it in the past but progression in this game is just broken in terms of a linear path and the devs really need to make gear matter.

Had a guy in Void Ark last week meekly pretend he didn't make it to the teleport pad and we started without him...using a sadface. Since we were all waiting on him, before the boss was pulled, we saw him move from time to time, closer and closer, and finally just run into a wall and stop and finally stopped right before the teleporter. The boss was pulled without him, and after his fake sadness, I called him out on it, but instead of getting upset and rebuking my claim - he admitted simply that he wished to enjoy his beer.

The entire party unanimously votekicked him the moment the boss was defeated.

Raising my hand as part of the demotivated crowd. I joined too late to raid and PVP is my endgame.

I could work to catch up, gear up, and improve my skill, but I might still wind up behind for the next patch or two. Why bother? What I want is either challenge or camaraderie and at least I can get one of those when I'm helping people speed up queue times on AST for low-level dungeons.

Roulette is full of mediocrity, person rages when they can't speed run, posts incoherent complaints on forums...

War. War never changes.

Seriously though, as someone with all classes at level 60, how are you not desensitized to the crap that happens in Duty Roulettes? I had a dps who refused to put any clothes on in a dungeon the other day, and his party members were clearly his friends who queued with him. The most it got out of me was a raised eyebrow and a sigh.

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Originally Posted by Gunspec

Roulette is full of mediocrity, person rages when they can't speed run, posts incoherent complaints on forums...

War. War never changes.

Seriously though, as someone with all classes at level 60, how are you not desensitized to the crap that happens in Duty Roulettes? I had a dps who refused to put any clothes on in a dungeon the other day, and his party members were clearly his friends who queued with him. The most it got out of me was a raised eyebrow and a sigh.

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you were the tank at Titan yesterday right, the one where you said "Guess I'm tanking" and then the healer started mocking you for it?

It was pretty weird, because it's clearly a single tank fight. Despite having Grit on, the other tank did nothing to grab hate heh - thanks for saving the run!~ Sorry if you're not the right person though lol

I very rarely have an issue with the duty finder. At least when it comes to regular content. Perhaps Balmung is just a nicer place overall and the attitude of players elsewhere is different? Either way I find bad encounters to be very much in the minority.

Hi Mika Ito, I played with you yesterday in DF hehe (I am Calla) anyway, yea I agree with you. It's hit or miss though at least ^^

my desire to try to get just the exact piece i want from Void Ark is now almost 0.

back in the CT days, i would do a dozen runs a week or more to get a single piece. now 3 runs of VA is too many, i'll roll on almost anything i can equip on the 2nd trip.

same thing with Hunts, used to be able to get thousands of seals every week. doesn't matter that much anymore.

the vertical progression just makes it pointless to work that hard for stuff that just won't last very long.

My desire to try out stuff is kiiiiinda gone, I'll have to admit, cause the "new" stuff we get is old rehashed mechanics in a different package for the most part....

I wonder sometimes why I even push myself to make an effort in runs if most of the party won't even try themselves.

Lazy players in DF? Alert the press!

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Originally Posted by Kaurie

you were the tank at Titan yesterday right, the one where you said "Guess I'm tanking" and then the healer started mocking you for it?

It was pretty weird, because it's clearly a single tank fight. Despite having Grit on, the other tank did nothing to grab hate heh - thanks for saving the run!~ Sorry if you're not the right person though lol

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Lol, small world. Yeah, I normally try to off tank that fight, because it's the harder job. Main tank literally just stands still the whole fight, while off tank has to avoid all of the mechanics that the dps and healers deal with. Should have guessed that a tank with grit on but no darkside probably wouldn't know what he's doing.

But yeah. Such is Duty Roulettes, lol

One of the things that really surprised me was when I started levelling THM. My first class was ACN & I started with the intention of being a SMN but a friend suggested SCH when I was around lvl35 so I didn't really experience DPS. So, upon playing THM I was shocked at how rotation based it is compared to healing. By rotation based I mean that it's merely mashing the same actions in a set order repeatedly. You don't have to think at all once you know what the best rotation is. That really saddened me because if other DPS roles are like that then no wonder it gets super boring. It also sucked the desire to play other classes out of me.

I'm more of a DoL guy, I had MIN & BOT to lvl50 way before any DoM but even in HW there's nothing to go for. Red Scrips are as boring as hell & echo the i55 job gear for me as I'm sure they'll be replaced by 3.3 with a "universal" DoL set.

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Originally Posted by Teryaani

No, those are still leechers. Even casuals hate those guys.

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Sorry this has nothing to do with your post. I just want to say I love your chopped hair look! I tried to do it several times but never could do it well. You did an amazing job.

Thank you everyone for all the reply's and such it really does seem like the current endgame goal for non alex savagers is quite lackluster (actually it probably sucks for them too) hopefully 3.2 adds some more fun. As for the expecting perfection or raging about duty finder my main gripe was that the maintenance was very soon by not giving it a shot it was all of our time wasted not just mine that's why i was disappointed.

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Roulette does still occasionally get groups that are new-ish and uncomfortable with mass pulling the 60 dungeons.

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Simple as that, really.

When you DF content so close to a maintenance time, that is the risk you take.

I know after i got my 210 relic and achieved BIS for Bard, i've lost all desire to try anything else now like A4S. Gear has always been what pushes me forward with no gear i quickly lose interest.

It's definitely burnout. We have far less stuff to do than when 2.1 came out, so a lot of us are bored out of our minds from running everything constantly. Back in 2.1 we got the EX primals for Ifrit, Garuda and Titan, the Hildibrand questline, Pharos Sirius, Haukke Manor HM, Copperbell Mines HM, CT, Ultima's Ballad, the Amalj'aa and Sylph beastman dailies, Good King Moogle Mog XII, and PvP. That is a LOT of content to chew on for a while, so we were never bored. But for 3.1 we've gotten just Saint Mocianne's Arboretum, Pharos Sirius (Hard), the Vanu Vanu beastman dailies, Thordan's Reign, The Void Ark, and the Diadem.

That's a striking lack of content compared to then. Only 2 new dungeons, 1 beastman tribe, 1 EX mode, 1 Raid, and 1...I'm not sure what to call the Diadem tbh. That's not a lot for the playerbase to chew on, especially considering we didn't have that much endgame content back in 3.0 either. We need more than this small amount to keep us going, the anima questline is barely doing it for a lot of us.

While nowhere near the issue this forum (and others) make it out to be, the lack of content for 3.0 onward has some players spent. What especially frustrated people is how much time and resource dedication was allocated to mundane things like Lord of Verminion and Diadem-- both seemingly DoA content after a five month delay.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

...That's a striking lack of content compared to then. Only 2 new dungeons, 1 beastman tribe, 1 EX mode, 1 Raid, and 1...I'm not sure what to call the Diadem tbh. That's not a lot for the playerbase to chew on, especially considering we didn't have that much endgame content back in 3.0 either. We need more than this small amount to keep us going, the anima questline is barely doing it for a lot of us.

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I don't think the anima questline is helping, rather I think it is making it worse, like trying to cure frostbite by throwing snow on the person.

The feeling of accomplishment can really only be determined by how much effort and value each individual perceives, if they don't try then they'll simply feel less and hence why so many people lose their morale to play.

The thing is finding something you feel and want to try for is the difficult part when things become dull.

Had chance to be in party with The OP from Duty Finder luck. This was 2 hours agp in face. But boy I am sleepy have not slept of the night at all. Our dungeon was Nidhogg place. Personally it went fast to me. I had a great time, especially with OP as healer, they rocked it out. Honestly I don't know I got out with 3 commendations, at least they got mine.

But I want to say, it is hard to tank like another tank when you are one yourself. Because you do not see in most occasions how others do it. I personally try to make big pull, but I personally go with what I got. It depends on the DPS. 2 Monks will be smaller pulls, this way healer if they smart can assist dps. Not point doing huge chain with dps that has bad aoe. And I mean no offense to Monks, people play whatever they want and only that matters. So therefore, the scenario would be different with a blackmage and a summoner or bard. Personally this is me, there is perfect guide for dungeoning 101.

Overall, I know I escape the subject a bit. But I do not think the desire of trying is gone, the issue is we get colossal work to do for relic, and people simply give up on any courtesy because they want to hurry for their next duty knowing they got over 1200 dungeon to do for this silly relic.