Random rule is broken, please fix

Choosing three 1* cards, with a 2* and 3* = instant loss, more times than I can count, changing a game of skill and chance into constant chance of failure.

Random, in and of itself, breaks the game, making it unplayable. Getting rid of it would be fore the better, but another method to fixing it could be to change rarity of cards it picks. If I got 60 cards, pull from 3* and 4*, small chance of 2*, even smaller chance of 5*. No 3-4 1* cards, please.

Between Order, Chaos and Random, it makes a fun game involve both no skill, and no fun.

get better cards? I've full 2/3 star decks the most time, when I play random

I don't care for TT at all but I think it'd be interesting if the random rule bypassed the normal limitations on rare cards.

how the random rule should work:
always get one high card, 4 or 5 star
get 2 cards as high as possible (3 star)
the last 2 cards are completely random (1-3 star)

how it currently works (99% of the time):
pick 5 random 1 star cards

this would give random cards but at usable levels, should make it fun instead of raging over getting only 1 and 2 star all the time
(could only be a problem on reverse rule)

What I've noticed with random is that the more cards I've collected, the less I get 1-stars when random rule is in play.

Of course every here and then I get a full 1-star deck and it just makes me laugh because it's funny. Since what are the chances for that to happen with 100+ cards when 22 of available cards are 1-stars, 26 2-stars and 33 3-stars? Not to mention 4- and 5-stars that can take one slot out of 5?

I like this idea. It would definetly make it more exciting to play with random because then you actually have a chance for a good hand. Right now playing with random you can either be guaranteed to lose or have a hand thats not entirely terrible.

Although I did notice the opponents AI tends to drop if you have a bad hand. I notice a lot of dumb moves when I have 2 or more 1 stars. Even from difficult opponents.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Saiah

Although I did notice the opponents AI tends to drop if you have a bad hand. I notice a lot of dumb moves when I have 2 or more 1 stars. Even from difficult opponents.

---

That's called "the card bait" :D NPCs will more or less always try and get your cards and the lower your card's numbers are, the higher the chances are that the NPC will do something stupid and leave their high card open for the taking because of it. Helps a lot especially if you know their deck and which is their common trump card. That's the tactics I've used against many NPCs and gotten my Odin card for example, or baited Laniaitte to ruin her "plus" combos for making her "waste" the plus-trigger card(s).

While I agree that there is a good chunk of luck involved.

To say it's "no skill" is ridiculous.



Let's take lewena cuz she's random AND chaos, for example. There is like 2 versions of her. One that takes baits and exposes the weak side of her OP cards. And then there is the safe version of her where even if you expose a 1 in the wide open to take. She won't bite and purposely places her card elsewhere.

After knowing this, you also realize 3 of her OP cards are weak on the right, and 3 weak on the bottom.

So you'll want to fill up left mid left upper side with your weak cards with 2 exposed sides. She'll either bite and expose herself or leave your card alone. If she bites take her card then recapture the weak card later. I usually start mid left with weak card to expose 3 sides if possible.

Anyways I can beat her like 1/4 times kind of consistently but I also have a lot of strong cards.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Critical-Limit

While I agree that there is a good chunk of luck involved.

To say it's "no skill" is ridiculous.

SNIP

Anyways I can beat her like 1/4 times kind of consistently but I also have a lot of strong cards.

---

First, 1/4 of the time is not consistently. If you can't beat her 3/4 of the time no matter how good you are, it's not a skill based system. It's a luck based system in that if you have enough luck to get enough good cards and a good order to play them, you have a slight chance of winning if you know how to play TT.

The majority of times I've played her, it has been completely impossible for me to beat her (I have 85 cards).
What I mean be completely impossible is that I've been given cards that don't beat any sides of any some of her cards.
Heck two or three games in a row, I didn't even get a two star.

Random+Chaos is retarded and no matter how skillful you are there are a majority of games that you literally cannot win no matter how you had played against Lewena.

a npc who gives out tons of 600 mgp cards shouldnt have a 3/4 win rate anyway, it would be totally broken

her reward is already quite high and further increasing it would just break all other gold saucer related stuff

kinda feels like I should buy another retainer on Mog Station and use it to store all my 1 and 2 star cards instead of using them to fill out my collection, leaving a smaller pool of 'good' cards for TT matches.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ServerCollaps

a npc who gives out tons of 600 mgp cards shouldnt have a 3/4 win rate anyway, it would be totally broken

her reward is already quite high and further increasing it would just break all other gold saucer related stuff

---

The problem is not the win-rate, the problem is that the ability to win is completely RNG. I'd be happy if they lowered the drop rates on the cards but made it possible to actually beat her.
There's nothing more frustrating than having a hand so poor it's literally impossible to win. And then having that hand 10 games in a row and then having the window to play her close. Most of my cards are 3+ stars and I still only get 1-2 star cards when playing against her. When you're strongest card is a Tonberry, 10 times in a row, it makes me want to throw my controller out the window.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ServerCollaps

get better cards? I've full 2/3 star decks the most time, when I play random

---

Getting more, better cards does help, but it's still a bad system. For example, if I've already got 60 cards, I have absolutely no reason to collect any more 1 star cards. All collecting new low cards does is make my odds of getting bad cards in Random higher. When a card game is punishing you for collecting new cards, the system is broken.

i think they missed an important part wich the FF8 triple triad had.

the ability to change the rules by yourself. and all the rules at the same time xD

the most important rule triple triad has is the plus rule. without plus it is just an unbalanced "who has the higher numbers on his cards?"
with plus (and same) the game will become more balanced, more fair, more strategic, wins depth and is more fun. even with random hand and a deck full of 1star cards it is not an instant lose... (yes, i think plus turns triple triad into a complete different game)

instead of removing random hand they should add plus and same to every NPC o.o/ or at least the option to implement it by yourself if you want to

Why would you want every single NPC to have the same exact rule set? It sounds like just a one deck strategy for them at the sound of it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Beckett

Getting more, better cards does help, but it's still a bad system. For example, if I've already got 60 cards, I have absolutely no reason to collect any more 1 star cards. All collecting new low cards does is make my odds of getting bad cards in Random higher. When a card game is punishing you for collecting new cards, the system is broken.

---

collect 3/4 and 5 star cards if you dont want 1 star cards

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

Why would you want every single NPC to have the same exact rule set? It sounds like just a one deck strategy for them at the sound of it.

---

thats what random hand is for. and the npcs still have different decks. and there are more rules besides plus wich can vary.

and yes, i liked tetra master much much more than triple triad - and the rules in tetra master were always the same and never changed. so i see no problem here xD

Frankly I don't think Triple Triad is intended to be a 'skill' game at all. Certainly you can make good decisions that will up your winrates compared to someone playing blind, but only by a little bit and there'll always layers of randomness present (outright random rules, random card drops, etc).

Collecting cards is meant to be more a long term effort - for some cards much longer than others. Which is an attempt to draw out the lifespan of content so you're farming cards over the course of an entire expansion, or what have you. Otherwise we'd collect everything the first week of an expansion and then quibble about having nothing to do.

I'm not saying that's good or bad, it's just what it is. It works out well if you're fortunate enough to only care about TT semi-casually, but if you're in a "Must have EVERY card right now" kind of person and go after them in an ocd manner you're going to have a bad time.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ServerCollaps

collect 3/4 and 5 star cards if you dont want 1 star cards

---

Do you understand what the word random means?

I have almost 100 cards and I still get a full hand of 1 and 2 stars at least 60-70% of the time.

Any NPC atm that has random as a rule has more luck than skilled involved.

Sorry folks..but I thoroughly enjoyed Lewena. If you know what you're doing, it's not impossible. If you're looking for guaranteed wins...I don't know what to tell ya, TT might not be for you. I HOPE it is...but it's not about a free hand out. The random rule is there for the spontaneity - some of us enjoy that.

ServerCollaps has the best point. Lewena's rewards are high, she shouldn't be a push over.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BlatantPyre

If you're looking for guaranteed wins...I don't know what to tell ya, TT might not be for you.

---

of course not. but i am also don't looking for a guaranteed lose...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Andrea

Do you understand what the word random means?

I have almost 100 cards and I still get a full hand of 1 and 2 stars at least 60-70% of the time.

Any NPC atm that has random as a rule has more luck than skilled involved.

---

that means that you still miss about 20 3 to 5 star cards

I've 119 cards and nearly always get full 2 to 5 star hands

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ServerCollaps

that means that you still miss about 20 3 to 5 star cards

---

you know, not everybody wintrades his/her way to the platin tournament cards
and more on a serious note, not everybody has the luck to just get the cards, guess you did not do 150+ eary runs with the card still missing

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ServerCollaps

I've 119 cards and nearly always get full 2 to 5 star hands

---

at almost 100 cards and the chance of getting a decent hand is about 50% for me i would say. but some NPCs are not beeatable with a decent hand, they need a good hand, which happens less then 5% of the time

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ServerCollaps

collect 3/4 and 5 star cards if you dont want 1 star cards

---

Obviously. The point is that SE made a system where collecting cards can actually hurt you, and that is a fundamentally flawed, unfun system that needs to be overhauled.

The Random rule would be a bit more interesting if it actually picked five random from your collection, and didn't take into account card rank restrictions. It would be interesting if we occasionally got a full hand of five star cards.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Trance_Axel

Choosing three 1* cards, with a 2* and 3* = instant loss, more times than I can count, changing a game of skill and chance into constant chance of failure.

Random, in and of itself, breaks the game, making it unplayable. Getting rid of it would be fore the better, but another method to fixing it could be to change rarity of cards it picks. If I got 60 cards, pull from 3* and 4*, small chance of 2*, even smaller chance of 5*. No 3-4 1* cards, please.

Between Order, Chaos and Random, it makes a fun game involve both no skill, and no fun.

---

How is attempting to beat an NPC with a deck full of strong cards using a randomly handicapped deck somehow LESS skillful than beating them with a deck of uber 5's?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Saint_Angeles

How is attempting to beat an NPC with a deck full of strong cards using a randomly handicapped deck somehow LESS skillful than beating them with a deck of uber 5's?

---

Because with many cards there is no longer an optimum play for them. There is nowhere they are either safe, can draw out a flip, or can be used to capture another card.
Therefore it takes less skill because instead of an optimal place to put the cards, it literally doesn't matter anymore.
When there is no difference between placing a card randomly vs not randomly, it means it takes LESS skill to play.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FunkyBunch

Whatever this was

---

I don't possess a photographic memory, but I'm pretty sure when the times I beat Lewena, I wasn't throwing my suboptimal cards at a metaphorical dartboard and getting lucky. I'm not even sure what your argument is here. How is there never an optimal play for a card? You utilize your deck to minimize the impact of playing an extremely weak card and attempt to create a situation in which your overall strategy allows for subobtimal cards to still eke out a victory. That's literally the definition of skill.

I guess if people really play like this and just randomly plop down cards with a random deck it at least explains all the salt and general lack of empowerment in these whiny threads.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Saint_Angeles

Snip

---

I'm saying there are 1* cards that it literally doesn't matter where you place them. I have consistent hands of Sabotendar, Bomb, Spriggan, Dodo, and Sylph. Despite having 89 cards.
You can pretend that where you place them matters, but every card she plays flips one or more of your cards, no matter how you play. If she plays even one card with a weak side facing the wall, and you don't have 2 cards with a 7+ it's literally impossible to win. Even then you'd have to be extremely lucky in the Chaos order for it to matter.
I can't count the times that I could have won only to be screwed by Chaos not letting me play the card that would let me win.

While there are always "optimal" placements for cards, against Lewena the placement can literally not matter. At all.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FunkyBunch

First, 1/4 of the time is not consistently. If you can\\'t beat her 3/4 of the time no matter how good you are, it\\'s not a skill based system. It\\'s a luck based system in that if you have enough luck to get enough good cards and a good order to play them

---

Uh didnt I say there was luck involved at the start of my post?

There are people who can't beat her but like 1/20. My 1/4 is a result of skill. Obviously there is STILL luck because I can't choose cards or what cards to use. But you can manage a lot better than "takes no skill"

I was addressing that. 1/4 is consistent. I consistently lose 3 to every win because those 3 losses are usually a result of random/chaos. But I don't lose 15 times to 1 win because I have skill.

It takes skill too.

I bet you don't consider the cards she's already used to predict her future cards either.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Critical-Limit

Uh didnt I say there was luck involved at the start of my post?

There are people who can't beat her but like 1/20. My 1/4 is a result of skill. Obviously there is STILL luck because I can't choose cards or what cards to use. But you can manage a lot better than "takes no skill"

I was addressing that. 1/4 is consistent. I consistently lose 3 to every win because those 3 losses are usually a result of random/chaos. But I don't lose 15 times to 1 win because I have skill.

It takes skill too.

I bet you don't consider the cards she's already used to predict her future cards either.

---

I'm not a lightweight, I'm saying that there are times that ANY of her cards can flip ANY of your cards making it IMPOSSIBLE to win.
I can play as optimally as possible, which I do. I have beaten her many times. That still doesn't make me not want to throw my controller out the window.


I know which cards she has left and figuring out the best place to play cards. But it doesn't matter 3/4 of the time according to your own statistic. THAT is what's wrong.
Even if you get extremely lucky to get to win 1/4 of the time it's still just luck. When you lose the ability to pick your cards, play the order of your cards you want you lose two skill variables.
The only variable left is placement. And you can place perfectly but it can still be impossible to win 90+% of the time.
Your 1/4 win rate vs someone with a 1/20 win rate is RNG. Same as why it takes some people 3 hours to grind all the crystals for Relic and others a week playing 3 hours per day.

Playing Lewena is frustrating and not fun.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FunkyBunch

Playing Lewena is frustrating and not fun.

---

The matches are fast... there is no penalty for a loss besides like what? a VERY few MGP which is usually cancelled out by Ties.


You get 5 star cards if they drop.

I found Tataru un-fun to play against, but I was a rookie when I was playing her. After I self-analyzed I got it to a reasonable rate. Now that I understand the game alot better I'm content with random, or chaos.

Just be glad you don't have to win a best of 5, to get a shot at the drop.

You're looking at playing it wrong imo. You want WINS so bad, and those negative feelings hit you when you lose. Random/Chaos is more like Poker, than any other mode. you have to sometimes fold/lose rounds. If you can accept losses in Poker as something inevitable, I don't understand how you can't take losses in TT as a minor nuisance.


--------------------------------
People who say they get a full hand of 1-2 star cards 50-60%. Sorry but I straight up don't believe you unless you're trying to fight her when you've only got less than 60 cards. I've already farmed all 3 of the cards from Lewena. Because instead of blaming the game. I looked at myself and what I could improve about myself as a player. If you get One 4 star, One 3 Star, Two 2 Star, and One 1 Star. Thats still a decent enough hand depending on where the strong/weak points are on your weaker cards.

Your weaker cards actually provide great bait, that Lewena will bite like half of the time. Other half she'll ignore it. If she bites, she usually exposes her weak side on the strong card. So if you're filling up the left/upper left side early on. Say you chaos a crap card at the start. Top left slot or mid left slot. If they chaos Cloud/Onion Knight/Ifrit/Garuda/Odin/Terra They have to expose their weak side.

the only time they don't is if they chaos Titan first. which is a low probability. If they bite. Your next turn depending on the card. either take over the exposed spot, or reclaim your card. If she plays it safe, then leave the bait there until she does. don't try to place near your bait cuz the second you cover up one side, she can claim it forever. The point of weak cards is to bait, or cancel out their crap existance by getting them to waste their good card, on a card you can EASILY take back safely.


I can't make a super strategy for her, because EVERYTIME it depends.

But you count cards, look at your own odds. look 4-5 turns ahead if you can going through 2-3 different scenarios, for "what if" you get this card next or "that card"


I like Chaos/Random for what it is. In some aspects it makes me think harder than I normally would, because the rest of the NPC's are a joke.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Critical-Limit

The matches are fast... there is no penalty for a loss besides like what? a VERY few MGP which is usually cancelled out by Ties.

---

I have 89 cards. It doesn't matter if you don't believe me in respect to my hands.
The part that is the most frustrating is the short period of time you have to play her.
You lose 15 games in a row, you don't get a card, then you have to wait an hour to play her again.


When I first tried beating her with 80 cards, I lost three days in a row, without a single win.
Then when I got up to 85 cards, I beat her nearly 10 times in a row.
Then I got RNG'd to death and I didn't get a single 3*+ card for close to 5 eorzean days.
You know RNG is broken. You can fail a mining attempt at 85% 5 times in a row or more. Which is statistically impossible.

RNG hates me when it's random. What's even more frustrating is when I can win, I have two cards left, and if Chaos will give me the one useful card I win. Then I don't get it.
At some point it demoralizes you, when RNG is literally screwing you over and over and over and over.

It's great that you think playing a game that breaks the rules and makes it impossible for you to win at least 75% of the time is fun. I don't. I want it to be skill based.
Making her AI brutal is better than just giving you garbage cards in a garbage order and saying "woohoo" when you get lucky enough to get good enough cards in a good enough order.

I want to collect the cards. I'm still missing Kal E' Senna too. I must have played the Serpent Commander 400 times with all of them either wins or draws.

I also don't understand how it makes you think harder. It eliminates choices and options for you. Instead of optimal card in optimal place in optimal order, it becomes optimal place.

I would be fine with them lowering the MGP amount of the cards to 50 or 100 if it would make less frustrating to play her.