Naming conventions of Primals.

I noticed something about the names of the various Primals we fought. Mainly for the most part, there was a bit of a shift in their etymologies (disregarding past FF history, with one exception)

First off, we know that in general their names are derived from real world mythologies, but the first 3 we faced are named after mythological species

• Ifrit: Fire Djinn of Arabian lore
• Titan: The generation of gods that preceded (and birthed) the Olympeans
• Garuda: Bhuddist Birds AND a singular entity in Hinduism (Vishnu's steed)

Now with Garuda, we enter a transaction period where the Primals are named after something that can be a species or a proper name

• Good King Moogle Mog XII: It has Moogle right there in the name, should be self-explanatory really
• Leviathan: Generic term for sea monster AND one of the demons representing the Seven Deadly Sins of Abrahamic lore

After Leviathan, we reach a point where all the primals hereafter are not named after mythical species, but rather mythical singular entities

• Ramuh: Hero of the Ramayana, Hindu epic poem
• Shiva: Hinduism again, specifically one of the Trimurti, a trinity of Hindu gods
• Ravana: Hinduism yet again, King of a demon realm
• Bismarck: A WWI-era german chip or Otto Von Bismarck, also a WWI-era German
• King Thordian: Like Moggle Mog, this is an "original" primal, however he and the Heavens' Ward are meant to take after the Knights of the Round, which are based on the Knights of the Round Table in Arthurian myth
• Alexander: Alexander the Great. Greek conqueror
• Zurvan: One of the two demonic figures of the Triad. Named for the god of time or Zoroastrianism (I speculate that he will come soon)
• Sophia: A Goddess that created the universe in Ghostic mythology, (For reference this is the "Goddess of the Warring Triad. Once again this is speclation what we will have to fight her)

Now for some outliers

• Odin: King of the Norse panthion, but battled between Garuda and Mog as a FATE, his trial though is more in line with what we established this far
• Phoenix: Named after the Revived firebird, this primal is fought on the way to fighting Bahamut.
• Bahamut: Arabian Fish that supporters the earth. This a singular entity, Like Odin, he is encountered earlier than what this shift suggests (End of the Era, he wasn't even fightable there), but the actual fight is more in line with this scheme
• Sephirot: No this is not referring to the One-Winged Angel of VII, this is an outlier, because he doesn't seem to be named after a living mythical entity, but a concept. Namely the Kabbalah's 10 emanations

What do you think? Was this shift deliberate, or was it mere coincidence given that most of these names were already used in past FF games

I don't think SE are really following any particularly deep naming convention for summons, given the fact with the exception of Good King Moggle Mog and Ravana, all the Primals are traditional summons from previous FF games (I'm not including the Warring Triad at the moment in this, as that is still for all intents and purposes just a set of immobile statues, and even they were from FFVI, albeit as a boss and not a summon) - it's entirely possible that the writing and lore teams probably just brainstorm ideas and settle on names that they feel fits the narrative.

Also it should be noted that Leviathan and Titan were originally planned for inclusion in version 1.0 but were never implemented due to the terrible earthquake and tsunami that devastated Japan in 2011 - SE felt that it was just too soon to feature them in the game after what happened. Hence Good King Moggle Mog was the replacement.

A final bit of obscure trivia is 'Zulvaan' was originally what the community mistakenly believed was Gaius's name (Azeyma only knows where players got that idea from), so I have my suspicions that 'Zulvaan' seems to be something of a placeholder name used by the development team. But I'm most likely wrong here.

Yeah Primal names and likenesses (besides Ravana) have just been recycled from the Final Fantasy series as a whole. It's fan service. I don't think there is any sort of deep naming convention in place.

I thought this thread was going to be abou the whole "normal" "hard" and "extreme" naming convention, boy was I wrong.

I think that's a coincidence, interesting nonetheless though. I always took the reasoning for which Primals were introduced to be;

• Mog is an exception, due to the earthquake/tsunami as mentioned. National disaster? Best to avoid Titan (which was ready IIRC) or Leviathan (which was too? No Sahagin back then though...). Ramuh was an option due to Sylphs already existing, as was a Goblin Primal I guess (and I always jokingly suggested the Goblins should have a joke-Primal like Mog; Alexandur, as a cheap scrap metal version of the Holy Summon...). Plotwise neither probably worked out, and they'd also require more work, where as Mog? Not a lot of work to produce him, given the model isn't that unique. Resize some moogles, give them fancy hats and weapons... Done. Ramuh on the other hand, would have required an entirely new model.
  
• Odin/Bahamut/Alexander were all chosen for instant recognizability, although they butchered Alexander... There is a Final Fantasy IV reference in Dalamud/Bahamuts relationship, and Odin was always a summon with an air of mystery about him, perfect for a wandering Primal.
  
• Phoenix was the only way they were ever going to explain the transition from 1.0 to 2.0, the game is called A Realm Reborn for a reason. Even when this game was in beta, and nobody was aware of Phoenix, you'd see reports jokingly saying how they'd used a Phoenix Down on this game to bring it back from the brink. The whole story with how this game failed and came back was too perfect not to throw Phoenix in there like that...
  
• Ifrit/Titan/Garuda/Leviathan/Ramuh/Shiva are the "traditional" elemental six, hence their introduction through 2.0. Leviathan before Ramuh because Leviathan was already delayed due to the tsunami, Shiva last because of the story implications.
  
• Thordan/Knights of the Round continues the "tradition" of ending on a Final Fantasy VII reference (1.0; Meteor Project. 2.0; VIIs Ultima Weapon. 3.0; Knights of the Round. 4.0; Don Corneos Palace, wait what?!). Final Fantasy VII is apparently Yoshidas favorite...
  
• Ravana/Bismark were chosen for the duel elemental properties, or tri-elemental if you want to get serious (Ravana is Earth/Fire, but Ice is in there too, Gnath collect Ice crystals (likely to cool the tunnels) and the blue butterflies, IIRC, cast Blizzard. Left over are Water, Wind and Lightning, and with the Sea of Clouds planned... Officially Bismarck is Wind/Water, but he can also summon storms, and Lightning seems important to the Vanu (Thunder Eggs in Neverreap, one of the MCH quests also has you stealing pure Lightning Crystals from the Vanu, which are apparently used in important ceremonies). Bismarck is Final Fantasies whale summon, not a great leap to make him flying. Ravana? Well, Earth and Fire? Subterranean tribe? King of the Demon Realm certainly fits.
  
• Finally, the Warring Triad are simply a Final Fantasy VI reference, and the order we get them in is probably a part of that. I forget the order they're battled in VI (Fiend/Sephirot > Demon > Goddess > Kefka?), but I'd suspect that's what we're going to get, perhaps with 3.5 giving us a crazed Legate as a Trial to finish off as "Kefka".

Bahamut makes an appearance in almost every FF based and MAGIC BASED RPG, anime and manga he just has to many forms to keep track of....

I thought Bahamut and Tiamat were Aribic Dragons set to destroy each other in their myths?

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Originally Posted by Kaiser-Ace

I thought Bahamut and Tiamat were Aribic Dragons set to destroy each other in their myths?

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Nope never mind, Bahamut is a Giant Fish and Tiamat is a Babylonian Chaos Goddess. (And mother of Dragons apparently)

Alright, let's do this.

Ifrit: a higher-tier genie (djinn) from Arabian myth. Often spelled "Efreet" in other fantasy settings.
Titan: catch-all term for the "old gods" who came before the Olympians in Greek myth. Little resemblance to the mythical inspiration.
Garuda: Vishnu's mount in Hindu and Buddhist myth.
Good King Moggle Mog XII: a completely original creation, though with a passing resemblance to the Knights of the Round Table thanks to the Mogglesguard.
Leviathan: a gigantic mythical sea serpent from Abrahamic religions, opposed to the Behemoth.
Ramuh: a mistranslation of "Rama," hero of the Hindu epic poem "The Ramayana," supposedly. The old man we see bears little resemblance to his supposed inspiration.
Shiva: destroyer god that brings rebirth from Hinduism. Has no resemblance to the mythic figure (hasn't for the entirety of Final Fantasy history - Shiva is / was not a scantily-clad woman with ice powers. Believe it!).
Ravana: the villain from the Ramayana, who wished to exact vengeance upon Rama. Could only be killed by a mortal, hence Vishnu's seventh avatar being the mortal Rama. (It's somewhat similar here, since Shiva (a phantom goddess) was unable to do what we mortals were).
Bismarck: either named for Otto von Bismarck, first Chancellor of Germany and instrumental in the country's unification, or the ship built during World War II in his honor. (Hilariously enough, the ship was sunk rather quickly.)
Thordan: no direct mythic equivalent, but it does have "Thor" in there. As many players noticed during the fight, Thordan and the Heavens' Ward are modeled after the Knights of the Round Table as they appeared in Final Fantasy VII (albeit with Thordan in place of Arthur); the Japanese name for the Heavens' Ward is even "Knights of the Round Table." (So it probably took them less by surprise, though observant players may have noticed their table is round and put two and two together.)

Odin: Eldest, wisest, and most powerful god of the Norse pantheon. (Nothing like his Final Fantasy portrayal beyond the fact he rides his six-legged horse Sleipnir and has Gungir [Gunge Lance] in VII.)
Bahamut: a gigantic beast from Arabian myth. His appearance here (and indeed in most fantasy games) stems from his portrayal as the "Platinum Dragon of Good" in Dungeons and Dragons, standing opposite his sister Tiamat, the "Chromatic Dragon of Evil," who has a head for each main chromatic dragon color. (I's beastiary was lifted almost verbatim from D&D...)
Belias (he does exist, y'know... maybe...): intentional alteration of Belial, a figure who became synonymous with the Devil / Satan / Lucifer / whatever you wanna call him in Abrahamic religions.
Sephirot: not sure on this one, as I'm not familiar with Kabbalah. From what I understand it's meant to be a manifestation of an aspect of God, or something along those lines.
Zurvan: no clue. Maybe something to do with Zoroastrianism, but I'm really not sure... figured it would be Ahriman if that were the case, but see both Ahriman mobs and Angra Mainyu from the World of Darkness.
Sophia: just means "wisdom" in ancient Greek. (Maybe modern Greek too.) Sometimes portrayed as a goddess.

Are they going away from species to more individual inspirations, or is it just a coincidence...? Who knows. I look at it as they're trying to honor the franchise legacy.

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Originally Posted by Nalien

Thordan/Knights of the Round continues the "tradition" of ending on a Final Fantasy VII reference (1.0; Meteor Project. 2.0; VIIs Ultima Weapon. 3.0; Knights of the Round. 4.0; Don Corneos Palace, wait what?!). Final Fantasy VII is apparently Yoshidas favorite...

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The Ultima weapon seemed more like the one from FFVI to me.

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Originally Posted by Mholito

The Ultima weapon seemed more like the one from FFVI to me.

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Really?

VI;
http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/...20110621145759
VII;
http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/...20100513170744
XIV;
http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/...20131214055112

The Proto-Ultima Weapon that occasionally pops up around Azys Lla is a bit more like VIs (more organic, similar gold/blue colour scheme, less obvious wings), but then again, he is meant to... Azys Lla is a giant reference to VIs Floating Continent, where Ultima/Atma Weapon was encountered. The Ultima Weapon Gaius threw at us though? Quite obviously modeled on VIIs version... Both have a torso, prominent wings, even a little orb in their chest...

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Originally Posted by Morningstar1337

• Good King Moogle Mog XII: It has Moogle right there in the name, should be self-explanatory really

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Except it doesn't. His name is Moggle Mog, not Moogle Mog.

Shiva's name seems to be a mis-translation of the word shiver, and not actually named after the hindu god Shiva.