[Suggestion] Raid roulette

Suggestion: Make a roulette for level 50 raids with a daily reward of maybe 5? Allagan tomestone of esoterics to encourage level 60's to toss in some help.

Reason:
- Long Queue
- Some players do not have hw
- give life to old content


I am currently Que'd for ST and WoD... Time expired... 726 mins (yes I went to bed in Q it was taking too long. Oh and I am qued as a healer, not that that matters because on multiple occasions I have seen the healer and tanks fill up and still be short 5 dps or more.) currently there is 1 tank 4 healers 6 dps... 5 mins ago there was 9 dps 20 mins ago 0 tanks. The que is not bugged.

Some payers who do not have hw their end game is pretty much daily roulettes and that is the end of the content they can do because of Queue times.

Some players who joined after hw have never experienced the old content. It has long Queues and they don't need it for anything.




ST queue lasted 789 mins on a weekend as a healer with recruiting in chat.

You mean 5 Esoterics?, As raids are often very chaotic, i doubt anyone in their right mind would go there for just 5 eso's

But in all honesty, a raid roulette is severely over due!

I wouldn't even touch a raid roulette for 20 times that reward because I know and understand just how many of the people in those raids would be queued up not knowing even the first thing about the content. If you're talking about Coils along with 24 man raids, I'd wager that at least half of the instances that a given player landed in via roulette wouldn't even get cleared, so an Esoterics reward is completely moot. Had the misfortune to land in T9 or T13? RIP your tome bonus and hope you enjoy either a half hour penalty or 90 minutes of wiping to the same dumb mechanics over and over again. It might be worth it if Raid Roulette players could only be queued with other Raid Roulette players, but that would defeat the entire purpose of having a raid roulette in the first place.

Currently the population that is trying to do those raids for the first time is rather small but it still exists. The ST and WoD I was able to get into only had 9 first time achievements between the 2 of them.

Good point with T5+ the mechanics get the better of allot of new players. What if the roulette players were unsync'd? Or maybe they could take a nerf bat to the damage out put of mechanics?

8 man are not hard to party finder. 24 man... its impossible.
Coil 1-4, 7 and 8 aren't that bad and rather easy. Pick some of the easier ones and toss them in doesn't need to be them all. Good point though.

What they really need to do is add a weekly quest that rewards people with relic items.

And how long would relic keep people going for? untill the first nerf probably. i would say make a long lasting fix and do it through the roulette. Make it so that people are convinced running it is worth it.

Hm, I think 100-200 esoterics is fair, but it will need to be supplemented by a challenge log bonus or something similar.

Maybe make it a weekly roulette with a big reward.

You would have SO many people dropping fishing for the shorter raids.

I would definitely rather a long queue for WoD than a shorter one only to have 3/4 the people ditch on entry. 3/4 isn't even likely, considering the roulettes now often don't even have a new person in them it's more like 7/8 or higher that would end up in a place like WoD due to this suggestion.

...and WoD you'd only need 3 key people to leave and it would be quite undoable.

People leaving currently isn't an issue. There is no one in the Queue so they never start. dec 31's Queued up... Jan 1 still no pop... The timer for estimated time actually stopped. It only counts as high as 999:59 mins.

yup as it is its almost impossible to do arr raids because there just isn't enough people going thru them anymore. i stay in duty finder as long as I'm on on the off chance one might start up, but I've been trying to get in to bahaumat coil for three weeks with no luck.

at this point i just want to see the cutscene and know the story and be done with it. it's really aggravating.

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Originally Posted by Oopsy

People leaving currently isn't an issue. There is no one in the Queue so they never start. dec 31's Queued up... Jan 1 still no pop... The timer for estimated time actually stopped. It only counts as high as 999:59 mins.

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The point is if you make it a roulette it would be. You have raids with vastly different completion times and difficulties; people are going to try and fish for the easy ones. It'd be like people leaving levelling roulette but a lot worse.

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

I wouldn't even touch a raid roulette for 20 times that reward because I know and understand just how many of the people in those raids would be queued up not knowing even the first thing about the content.

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I think you're overestimating the difficulty of the old raids a little.

Back when the Coils were current, locked behind PF restrictions, and average item levels were suited to them, then yes. This would have been an awful idea. Now, however, I don't think it would be all that bad. All of the Coils were hit with massive nerfs after they were pulled from PF restrictions, and current item levels would put almost everyone at stat caps when level sync'd. Even crappy players can pull decent numbers when level sync'd when they're at cap. We're also assuming that the Raid Roulette would allow you in if you haven't cleared. Keep in mind that the original Roulette's did not unlock until you had cleared all the content that was required for them. Meaning, in this case, no Raid Roulette if you haven't cleared the Coils.

Even if they did let you in without clearing it first, though, it wouldn't be a big deal. The only time the roulette would be a problem is because of mech heavy fights like T8, 9 and 13... but so what? It's not written anywhere that the team absolutely has to succeed. It's okay to fail, and you can always que again. Besides, if you're lucky, someone will have cleared and can talk the group through it. That's even more likely these days with all the people who have cleared it unsync'd, and given that a lot of older raiders would probably be down for Raid Roulette just for the sake of nostalgia. Personally, I'd enjoy running T9 with noobs just because it would be a good change of pace from running it with a pre-made.

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Originally Posted by Februs

I think you're overestimating the difficulty of the old raids a little.

Back when the Coils were current, locked behind PF restrictions, and average item levels were suited to them, then yes. This would have been an awful idea. Now, however, I don't think it would be all that bad. All of the Coils were hit with massive nerfs after they were pulled from PF restrictions, and current item levels would put almost everyone at stat caps when level sync'd. Even crappy players can pull decent numbers when level sync'd when they're at cap. We're also assuming that the Raid Roulette would allow you in if you haven't cleared. Keep in mind that the original Roulette's did not unlock until you had cleared all the content that was required for them. Meaning, in this case, no Raid Roulette if you haven't cleared the Coils.

Even if they did let you in without clearing it first, though, it wouldn't be a big deal. The only time the roulette would be a problem is because of mech heavy fights like T8, 9 and 13... but so what? It's not written anywhere that the team absolutely has to succeed. It's okay to fail, and you can always que again. Besides, if you're lucky, someone will have cleared and can talk the group through it. That's even more likely these days with all the people who have cleared it unsync'd, and given that a lot of older raiders would probably be down for Raid Roulette just for the sake of nostalgia. Personally, I'd enjoy running T9 with noobs just because it would be a good change of pace from running it with a pre-made.

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Roulette will join to people who are queued and have not finished the content yet. You can't queue as a roulette with out having finished the content, but new people get help from people in roulette when they queue normally.

The current queue for pre-hw are a bit dead. So the roulette would likely fill 40-80% of the raids. Having 20% or more of a raid with experience with the raid usually makes them easy enough. With kind people (I assume everyone in ff-xiv is kind) they will guide the new players.

I do agree with you though. With sync'd gear it is really easy. A lot of the mechanics of ST don't even happen because things die to quick.

The dive bombs are still a bitch on bahamut. Even unsynced if you have new people.

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Originally Posted by Februs

Keep in mind that the original Roulette's did not unlock until you had cleared all the content that was required for them. Meaning, in this case, no Raid Roulette if you haven't cleared the Coils.

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Roulettes help populate instances that people are queueing for specifically, though. If you have 3 people waiting in queue for (as an example) WP HM and I queue into the DF for level 50 roulette, I can quite possibly get dropped into the dungeon with them.

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Even if they did let you in without clearing it first, though, it wouldn't be a big deal. The only time the roulette would be a problem is because of mech heavy fights like T8, 9 and 13... but so what? It's not written anywhere that the team absolutely has to succeed. It's okay to fail, and you can always que again.

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That completely defeats the purpose of offering a tome reward for a roulette, though (to me, at least). Players generally take the path of least resistance when it comes to grinding tomes, so you're basically alienating the audience that the roulette is aimed at from the get-go. I for one wouldn't queue raid roulette for tomes because there's ways to get them that involve much less face-bashing against divebombs. You might be left with a few people hopping in there for the sake of nostalgia (or maybe some people are just that bored, who knows), but that isn't going to help the queues much with the shape they're in now.

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Besides, if you're lucky, someone will have cleared and can talk the group through it. That's even more likely these days with all the people who have cleared it unsync'd, and given that a lot of older raiders would probably be down for Raid Roulette just for the sake of nostalgia. Personally, I'd enjoy running T9 with noobs just because it would be a good change of pace from running it with a pre-made.

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I could see it as something fun to do as a premade with people that know the fights (probably with 6+ people so you could control the party composition and carry those last 1 or 2 people if needed). Queueing solo though? That's boredom at its finest. Being stat capped and synced down to level 50 is still tons different than running those fights unsynced. Clearing a fight unsynced doesn't necessarily give you an idea of the actual mechanics behind it because many of them do lolsome damage given our level 60 HP pools and defense values. Level 60 attack values and new rotations also mean that you burn through them much faster and blow right on past a lot of the mechanics, so those that have cleared unsynced may not have even experienced some of them.

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Originally Posted by Februs

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What hes trying to say is, even with the nerf, how many times have you gone into some kind of easy content, through say, Trial roulette, and wiped 2 or 3 times because one or two people weren't bothered to look up anything about the fight, and instead, want you to sit and explain 10-15 minutes of fight in a short amount of time, that they will probably never understand until they see it? Quite a bit I'm afraid, at least on my end. I'm with Ashkendor, you could give it 200 esoterics and 300 law, I wouldn't go in at all. If this was a Crystal/Syrcus/WoD Roullette? I'd consider it if the rewards were worth the effort. How many people do main scenario roulette for the 120 poetics? I sure don't, and I'm sure alot of other vets don't either.

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

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That's true, but there is still a gateway to those fights. The 2nd Coil Does not open until you have cleared 1st Coil. Final Coil does not open until you have cleared 2nd. It really depends on how SE set it up, but if the Roulette included the entire set of Coils (T1-T13) then players who have not cleared T9, at the very least, would be unable to que for the roulette at all. If SE follows the current set up for lockouts, then the noob problem would only really apply to Final Coil Raids.

On the flip side, if SE was very generous and allowed players to que for the Raid Roulette regardless of not unlocking the Final Coil (which would be dumb, but, in theory, they could), I still don't think it would be that big of an issue. Honestly, it would just resemble the way that Trial Roulette is right now. As it is, if half or more of the group are noobs, then you'll have a problem. If not, then it's not big deal. The longer the fight is in the general population the less trouble it becomes, even if you have a noob or two in the group. This is the way it's always been.

Consider the fact that Titan/Ifrit/Garuda HM used to be considered "hard" in the Trial Roulette. People would actually drop out rather than fight them. Now it's laughable to think of those fights as "hard," and it's possible to even clear the Extreme levels with a PUG (which used to be completely unheard of). Currently, Ravana is the one that people grunge at if they get it as a Trial Roll, because it's still possible to get a noob or two in the group. When HW came out, wipes were frequent. Now that it's been out for a while, it's not that bad, and the rest of the group can carry the few who are new. Give it another month or two and no one will even care, because more and more of us will be used to it.

The thing same applies to the Coils. It's "hard" right now because a lot of players do not run it regularly. Throw it into a daily roulette and, yes, for the first little while there will be a lot of bad groups full of players who don't know what they are doing. Give it a few months, though, and it will be laughable how quickly the average player base adjusts to most of the fights. When 2nd Coil first lost it's PF restriction, I was clearing T6 with PUGs within days of it hitting the DF. T7 followed within a week or 2. T8 took a little longer with a month or two, and T9 was the only one that still required a PF to clear. The longer time goes by, the more people become familiar. The more people become familiar and the easier the fights get.

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Originally Posted by Nyghtmarerobu

how many times have you gone into some kind of easy content, through say, Trial roulette, and wiped 2 or 3 times because one or two people weren't bothered to look up anything about the fight, and instead, want you to sit and explain 10-15 minutes of fight in a short amount of time, that they will probably never understand until they see it? Quite a bit I'm afraid, at least on my end.

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Your experience and mine are quite different then, I'm afraid.

I have never needed 10-15 minutes to explain a fight. I can typically explain all of them in under a minute flat. Most mechs aren't all that complicated and are repeated in several fights throughout the game with different animations/names. It's true that unprepared noobs cause wipes, but I find that just as many wipes are caused by people who over-complicate things with convoluted explanations of simple mechanics. I don't need my party to know the entire fight inside and out. I only need them to know their very short and specific roll in that fight. Dps don't need to know what the tanks/healers are doing and vice versa. They only need to know their end of it. To that end, simple instructions get results. It's why I used to farm T6 with PuGs for tome bonuses. It's easy to talk noobs through it if you cut out all the crap they don't need to actually know.

MSQ Roulette is probably not the best example either. Like you, I often don't run it, but the level of difficulty or the number of noobs that Que for it has absolutely nothing to do with why I don't run it. I don't run it because A) they are boring, especially since everyone is so over-geared, B) they're damn long and have multiple cut-scenes, and C) the amount of bonus I receive for carrying noobs through them does not outweigh A) and B). The fact that the MSQ dungeons are not fun and are littered with cut-scenes means that my only incentive to run them is for bonus. The only problem with the bonus is that it is not high enough to justify me putting up with being bored for that long of a time. Raid Roulette would not have that issue, because they are typically short (even if you wipe you will do so in short order) and I actually enjoyed running them.

In the end though, it doesn't really matter. The fact is that there really isn't a good reason there not to be a Raid Roulette. Just because Raid Roulette is not everyone's cup of tea does not mean that it should not exist. Put it in there for the players that are interested. If no one ques for it, oh well. It can sit there in neglect, just like CT, ST, and WoD...and Wolves Den... and most of the Guildhests... the Relic Trials... Titan Extreme... etc.

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Originally Posted by Februs

I have never needed 10-15 minutes to explain a fight. I can typically explain all of them in under a minute flat.

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Read a little closer. They mentioned explaining 10-15 minutes worth of fight, not taking 10-15 minutes to explain.

Honestly, if SE wants to implement this it's no skin off my back (aside from the fact that I think it would be a waste of resources). I simply wanted to express the fact that you'd have to offer a ridiculously huge tome reward to get most people to even attempt it, simply because of the high probability of either taking a long time to clear or just never clearing at all. I think the only way I'd queue a raid roulette is in a premade party. I don't mind helping people out when I know precisely what I'm getting into as far as people's experience and skill levels, but DF is a cruel mistress and I don't enjoy tempting fate this way.

I dunno what you're talking about with the Guildhests, relic trials, or EX primals though. I've never had problems getting into guildhests or HM primals in DF, and I see unsynced pony farm parties for EX primals on a daily basis. They aren't neglected at all.

Raid Roulette: Synced to iLvl of original release, reward = 1 relic unidentifiable item. I would go for that :D teach a group a real raid, worth not doing Alex NM / daily roulettes

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

Read a little closer. They mentioned explaining 10-15 minutes worth of fight, not taking 10-15 minutes to explain ... I dunno what you're talking about with the Guildhests, relic trials, or EX primals though. I've never had problems getting into guildhests or HM primals in DF, and I see unsynced pony farm parties for EX primals on a daily basis. They aren't neglected at all.

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The concept is the same. My point is that people have a tendency to over complicate fights that are not all that difficult. If I see a noob bonus, I assume the worst and give a 5 second point form list of things to watch out for. Assuming only 1 or 2 people are new, the rest of the group can carry their mistakes, especially nowadays. If half the group is new, then you might need to spend a little more time explaining, but, again, that's no different than Trial Roll's when they first come out. It's not a big deal.

You, also, need to read a little closer. I was not referring to HM Primals (maybe that was a typo?). I specifically pointed out Titan Extreme. I was also not referring to PF pre-mades, or pony farms groups, or unsyc'd clear groups. I was talking about direct ques. I don't know about your server, but on mine if you directly que for the Tower Series, older Extreme Primals (especially the "difficult" ones), most of the Guildhests, Relic Trials, etc. it is a VERY long wait. Roulettes are usually not that bad, and I also see many pre-made groups in the PF, but direct ques? No. Some of that content is as dead as door nails if you don't make a pre-made to run it. Which is a shame, because I often find PuG groups more entertaining than Pre-mades.

Don't get me wrong. Running with a well-oiled machine is nice, but running with the same well oiled machine every. Single. Time. Is boring. I don't play to keep a flawless track record. I play for fun, and taking out the possibility of losing takes a lot of the fun out of it for me. I mean, it's bad enough that I'm grinding it out, but turning the grind into a repetitive and monotonous snore fest of running the same thing over and over the exact same way with the exact same group doing everything on autopilot turns it into a snooze worthy chore. Personally, I'm glad to get that "one or more members ..." message, because it means things might get interesting for a minute. The bonus doesn't mean as much to me as how much entertainment I'll get out of actually running the content ... Though, I imagine that I am in a pretty tiny minority when it comes to this kind of thinking, so I do understand where you're coming from on this.

Typically Queues are data server based so most people should have a similar queue duration based of class and time they are playing. Older Queues are now much longer we all agree to that and as this thread and many others have been made asking for changes to help the queue I do not think anyone here is trying to debate the issue of queue times.

I do see a lot of people with valid complaints about the difficulty of the raids. A small nerf may be needed to simplify the mechanics so that they are not going to punish the whole raid as much for a new member. I think that has been the clearest complaint. As for rewards some have made some good points and have made great suggestions. Adding relic quest requirements to include some of the older raids or possible to require a rewarded item from roulette mode seem like greatways to pull people into older content and help new membes

I think the roulettes should be split by which series.

I would totally be in for a raid roulette. I never had the chance to complete the whole coil of Bahamut chain. Only was able to do CT, SC and WoD. It was a pain to find a group back then, can't even imagine now with all the new content from HW.
But in all honesty, guys who doesn't have HW should get it. It's really not expansive and add so many more things. Trying to get ARR end game gears is pretty useless since it is unmatched against HW stuff.