Secondaries: +Lifesteal, +Indomitable, +Spiked Armor

Everyone knows how pretty much worthless Parry is, I think these are some tank secondaries that could bring some interesting variety to the fold.

Lifesteal
A percent of all damage you deal is converted to life.
1 stat point = 0.065% Lifesteal.


Spiked Armor:
A percent of damage you take before armor and stances is prevented and reflected to your target.
1 stat point = 0.025% Spike Reflect.


Indomitable
Damage you take after armor and stances is prevented by a ward. Ward regenerates itself every 10 seconds.
1 stat point=1 damage prevented. This can add up quickly if you stack it.

These are defense secondaries I would love to have. I love reliable tanking stats, and parry is too much based off RNG and does nothing against magic.

And yet nobody would stack any of them cause muh deeps.

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

And yet nobody would stack any of them cause muh deeps.

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I don't know. I love DPS a lot, but Spiked Armor can probably produce some good DPS in itself. It also prevents damage.

Oh no not you again. I take it your ban ended?

Exactly how is Parry worthless?

Parry is a defense stat that has a chance to reduce damage taken, similar to how Critical Rate has a chance to increase damage dealt. Why would you not be interested in investing in a stat that can give you a higher chance of survival?

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Originally Posted by Rhode

Exactly how is Parry worthless?

Parry is a defense stat that has a chance to reduce damage taken, similar to how Critical Rate has a chance to increase damage dealt. Why would you not be interested in investing in a stat that can give you a higher chance of survival?

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Except Critical Chance is multiplied by other stats. Parry is not. Parry also only works for one type of damage whilst critical works for both magical and physical attacks.

Parry:
Not affected by other stats.
Flat Rate.
Only works on physical attacks.

Critical Rate:
Multiplied by other stats like Determination and Strength.
Not a flat rate, can be modified.
Works for Physical and Magical attacks.

Critical Rate is 8 times better as a stat itself.

Crit's relation to other stats is not why it's better. Even if crit did not scale off anything, it would still be a worthwhile stat.

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Originally Posted by Rhode

Exactly how is Parry worthless?

Parry is a defense stat that has a chance to reduce damage taken, similar to how Critical Rate has a chance to increase damage dealt. Why would you not be interested in investing in a stat that can give you a higher chance of survival?

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I hate to give a thread this bad and poster as horrible as Nektulos-Tuor a bump but I feel answering an honest question is more important.

Parry is worthless because it's very inconsistent and doesn't have a real impact on survivability. In situations where survivability really matters, the end-game content, parry is unreliable. As a tank and as a healer, you want reliable and controlled damage intake.

Parry is only situationally a reliable and controlled reduction in damage intake -- when it's pushed to a high enough % (such as Raw Intuition), when there are enough small but quick physical hits that it's more likely we'll get a consistent reduction in damage over time and between heals, or when tanks have a high enough HP buffer that small decreases in damage can add up to single GCD worth of healing. To add to the situational nature of parry, it only applies to physical damage.

To compare it to crit, your effective window to see a real return on parry is the time it takes for your HP to go from full to 0. In the most ideal scenario, you can extend the window to start and end from moments in the fight where the tank must be topped off. Parry is only really useful if during that span of time, it can save your healer a single GCD in mitigated damage. If it doesn't, it has effectively done nothing but shave off a tiny bit of over healing. With the current numbers on parry, you will not get such a return.

Your effective window to see a real return on crit is the time it takes for the boss's HP to go from full to 0. As a result, you have a much wider window for crit to contribute damage. Because of how wide that window is, while crit is RNG, over hundreds of hits, the percentages will even out and you will get a consistent and quantifiable increase in damage done.

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Originally Posted by Rhode

Exactly how is Parry worthless?

Parry is a defense stat that has a chance to reduce damage taken, similar to how Critical Rate has a chance to increase damage dealt. Why would you not be interested in investing in a stat that can give you a higher chance of survival?

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In a scripted encounter, the healers know when the big hits are coming. You don't wait to see if the tank parries the hit then heal - you just come in already loaded for bear and if the tank happens to parry, it ends up either as overheal (which can be bad in and of itself cause of heal aggro) or a fun story to toss around about that one time that Parry actually did something useful. Crit, on the other hand, is always a boon when it happens because it just removes more HP from the boss.

Huh, that gives me an idea based loosely on The Secret World's offensive/defensive stat balancing. In TSW, block pushes penetration off the table, and defense pushes accuracy off the table. Similarly, FFXIV could switch parry to knocking off (random) crit rate as you stack it (purely passive), and maintain its current random -20% mitigation as procs allow. I think that would give parry more value for tank secondaries, without wrecking the existing balance of Awareness being a full 100% immunity to crits.

These sound like things that should have been on a Drk to begin with. Or examples of abilities slapped onto weapons or gear. Would add some customization options. Devs seem to hate the idea of customization though.

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

Lifesteal

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Bloodbath. Soul Eather. Abyssal Drain. Inner Beast. Equilibrium.

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

Spiked Armor:

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Vengeance.

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

Indomitable

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Protect. StoneSkin. Adlo. Pld passive Shield Block Rate. Bullwark. Dark Dance/Mind. Passive Parry rate granted by War's Infuriated status. etc.

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

These are defense secondaries I would love to have....

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You already do have them.

He wants these effects as passives though. Not extremely limited activate on demand abilities and not costing a ton of MP in lieu of Abyssal Drain. A little over half of these being exclusive to Warrior. Though with examples like Living Dead I wager the XIV dev team doesn't know how to code passives to work. Or simply won't try for fear it make break the balance of their outdated and stagnant battle system. Not to mention adding in more options just removes the need for abilities like Bloodbath and Vengeance since the effect it gave is now based off a new stat or gear/weapon specific always active ability.

I'd like to see more diversity in stats and see resistances actually matter but it's pretty clear the game is poorly designed around min maxing a single stat to basically do everything for you. Oh well. Whatcha gonna do right.

Only problem with adding them is WoW added them but how they added them makes them feel underwhelming. They have multistrike, bladed armor (armor and bonus armor = 100% of each values ).

They do have lifesteal too but it's a proc and steals maybe 500 hp which is so little it makes a difference with ff14 it'd work better. What I'm trying to get at is having these isn't bad or a bad idea, implimenting them correctly is the issue.

WoW's implementation of tank secondaries might've been underwhelming, but it's still more worthwhile than ours. :/

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Originally Posted by SpookyGhost

WoW's implementation of tank secondaries might've been underwhelming, but it's still more worthwhile than ours. :/

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Agreed Spooky, it is better than ours WAY more diversity but the secondaries there dont matter either. Only your main mastery stat rendering the rest moot I'd love to have drks as a lifesteal tank and plds with indomitable and what not. It'd breathe more life into plds and other tank classes to make them feel unique and have some other stats.

We've been saying for a while in my FC that shield oath should come with some kind of thornmail buff to close the dps gap. Sure warriors will cry but they already have an instant cure spell that's better than PLD's so whatever.