Am I doing something Wrong?

So I just turned 60 on Scholar. Overall ilvl of about 150 so pretty low and just started the grind for Law/seals etc.

I just ran Sohm Al and Fractal and the Tank both times literally pulls every mob in the area - I mean I cant even see him on the screen - hes covered by mobs - Luckily I had three stacks up and another still ready to go - I ended up dropping 6 lustrates on him and he still had only a sliver of health left - I'm spamming Adlo and Physick like its going out of business and Fairy at the same time. I think I'm doing everything right and we still all die. Then he does the same thing again and we all die again. Then he pulls just a few mobs and we sail on through. Clear all bosses no problem Exactly the same in Fractal. We die on trash rather than bosses because in my view there is too much overpull

So my questions are this - Notwithstanding the aboveit seemed pretty normal to pull so many as far as I can see. Is there anything I should have been doing that I wasn't? Is this level of pulling normal now? ( I didn't see it when I ran nin all the way through) Did I just get unlucky with some Leeroy Jenkins tanks? I don't know. Was I doing something wrong?

btw was dropping virus a E4E all the way through - never off cool down

Thanks for any thoughts that you may have

There might be many reasons for your wiping. Maybe the dps weren't aoeing, maybe they were and their dps was still too slow or they ran out of TP. Maybe the tank wasn't avoiding aoes, maybe the tank wasn't using cooldowns. Maybe the tank's gear was bad, maybe the dps' weapons were bad, maybe your healings were too little.

Mind you, the tank should always ask if it's okay for him to pull such a stunt and check if his fellows are geared well enough to survive through it.

There's also the fact that people want to get everything done asap, so tanks are put under pressure to do stunts like that even when they don't want to. But since they're, well, tanks, they get to decide if they do it or not, really.

But yeah, sounds like you did all you could.

Edit: Be sure to get as high ilvl book as you can as that increases your healing the most.

I'm a main healer but I also tank so I tend to be hyper aware of my healer. When I am tanking, I NEVER pull like that at the start. Only after I see that the party can handle it and if I even feel up to it as it can be pretty stressful on everyone and a lot of times NOT faster.
No matter who is at fault for the wipes, any tank that would repeatedly pull like that after the party can't keep up is taking responsibility for the wipes himself IMO.

Don't let it get you down, It sounds like you were doing everything you could.

Healing big pulls in the 60 dungeons at iLevel 150ish can be challenging; the tank probably should have taken your gear into account before pulling as well.

Also, even if you were spamming, sometimes there's not much you can do with a tank's bad CD use, though that may or may not have been a part of the problem here.

Probably a combination of your low gear and low gear or no defensive skill use by the tank. The gear isn't that big a deal; we all had to start at around the same level gearing from those dungeons when we first leveled up too. As long as the tank pulls reasonably, it's more than doable. If you were blowing through all your stacks, using your cooldowns, etc, the wipes weren't your fault at all. If the pulls seemed like they dragged out, it could be low dps on top of everything else, which just further compounds the problem by making you keep up sustained healing even once your stacks and other resources have already been used up.

I have forgotten to gear check the healer and done big pulls before, and immediately felt like a total asshole when we wiped. If the healer isn't geared to do pulls like that, there's just no possible way to keep up with the incoming damage.

It's rare, but sometimes I catch myself trying to heal when I'm in Cleric Stance. In this situations I'm like "Why isn't his HP coming back?!"

But I don't think that's your case, because Cleric vanishes if you wipe and it wouldn't happen twice... Right? Right?

By the way, for your heals, overall Ilv isn't that important. The level of your weapon is. Get a good weapon, watch if the tank is using CD's, make sure your fairy is using hers and good gaming. You're in the right path.

LOL - I never got the chance to go Cleric so it definitely wasn't that. I'm wondering if I should have had Selene out at the pollen pods. There seemed a lot of poison flying around and trying to spam leeches in-between Physick and Adlo was pretty hard!

Saving up for the Law tome for the weapon and already got the Centurio seals to upgrade so that should be in my basket before Xmas with a bit of luck

Thanks for the comments guys really helpful

I like to use Eos for the big pulls
Rouse+Fey illumination+Whispering dawn is a blessing.
(Without mentioning that, Fey illumination increases your healing potency and Eos healing potency, and Rouse increases Eos healing potency too. That's a lot of power.)
You can also drop some Emergency Tactics-Adloquium too.

Pulling everything up to the wall is the norm for groups that are up and above the minimum gear level (which is i148, if I recall correctly). You can usually heals those kinda pulls with limited difficulty in i170-180 and that's kinda become the meta for the current dungeons runs.

I'm tempted to say the tank wasn't aware of your gear score (unfortunately) and decided to go nuts without realizing the consequences. If you could heal the dungeon normally (single pack pulls only) with your item level, then you're fine.

There are so many tanks that just don't understand how mitigation works and why it's a thing. Couple that with your lower ilvl, and I'd think that was the expected outcome.

I was a PLD main for 2 years gone AST at 3.0, and I prefer full-pulls to keep me working and get us through the dungeon, but when I see a PLD pull an entire room and not use even one of the 98274563856565 buffs that he has I want to tap him on the nose with a rolled up news paper.

"No, bad PLD".

I can keep them alive through shear ilvl (mine and his) but if you try to do this at a more relative ilvl, we'd wipe due to the tank not comprehending his job.

Just tell them at the start of the run that you're sorry but still learning & would appreciate if they didn't big pull. You'll still get fools but most will understand. =)

Or you can let them die with no remorse. That's my method.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TatoRazzino

Or you can let them die with no remorse. That's my method.

---

Does that fall under 'a time to laugh while they all burn?' :3

+1 for trying to add Eos's CDs to the mix. Also, if the tank is not taking a ton of damage up front, and is tagging mobs, be in cleric stance for the pull, swiftcast shadowflare as he stops (it puts slow debuff on all mobs), drop out of cleric stance (it will not be on CD since you were in it during the pull), and go to town healing. It will help to have stoneskin/adlo on tank prepull (though I just do stoneskin because I usually don't drop out of cleric to adlo). For quick runs, it's best to start casting stoneskin as the final mob has ~25% hp, or rather, when it is a second or two from dying. Adlo cast is quick enough that you can probably get it as the tank starts to run.

Edit: actually, thinking about it, I mentioned cleric because I am of the mindset of BURN THEM ALL FOREVER.. for debuff purposes, feel free to throw shadowflare without it

Thanks for all the responses guys - feel a lot better now!! I LOl'd at Askendor. Have a happy healy Xmas and New Year.

I prefer to pull a large first group to test the team. I can gauge where our DPS will be based on how quickly things die, and I can gauge how skilled the healer is, based on where my health levels go, as my cool down rotation is pretty well engrained in me. And then I adjust my speed/pulls accordingly. I prefer not to judge things soley based on your ilevel.

Of course if we wipe, I'll check all gear and then take the blame if the ilevels are low.

Yea I prefer Selene at that very beginning with all that poison crap then switch to Eos after unless the tank is barely taking dmg then I stay with Selene for my dps purposes lol

Overpulling in Sohm Al is pretty stupid due to level sync, fractal should be easier though unless he doesn't use cooldowns.

It's hard for me to tell without knowing exactly what he pulled in fractal, because I've done big pulls in there pretty easily before.

Yes, you're caring.

Seriously though, were you using Eos? You kinda need Rouse+Whispering Dawn for stuff like that.


Both of those it's very normal to pull ERRYTHANG in the area. I don't really like doing it in sohm al because you never know what kind of gear everyone's got, and in levelling dungeons people are still getting used to new skills so you probably won't get the dps you need. But the tank has to do their part, those sohm al pulls are a lot harder than fractal pulls, they need their CDs for that shit or they will die and nobody can save them. And pulling the whole room with both plants is REALLY not a good idea in general since you have to focus down the plants first anyway and you end up with people all over the place. Horrible efficiency. Also I don't do the double pull before the ice dragon because fuck glacier sprites. I can do it. I have done it. But it super isn't worth the time savings.

In Fractal the usual pulls are the entire first room, then the entire second room stopping at the conjurer because that asshole doesn't come off his shelf, then from the first boss to the first set of tubes (this is the hard pull, you usually won't see it in DF). You CAN go clear to the chimera but it's not recommended because the AOEs become unmanageable (Dps and tank should be stunning Baleful Roar and Furore unless holy spam happens) and having chimera come out mid-pull would be Very Bad (tm). Also if you want to save a BUNCH Of time on minotaur, like entire minutes plus, activate the tubes immediately after 111 tonze swing so he doesn't do disorienting groan. Good melee DPS are going to get hit by 111 tonze swing, so be ready to ignore that because they have second wind and/or life surge and/or bloodbath. You still have to open the tube for 1111 tonze swing, but honestly if you end up going through three 1111 tonze swings you deserve to wipe.

And of course in neverreap you just pull the entire island you're on. That second island's a bitch, save your good CDs for it if you can. Even deployment tactics because the dps will be stepping in shit. And there's a very good possibility the tank will get hit by four final stings at once in the bees/tree pull. If this happens they will die and you'll be like 'BUT THEY WERE JUST AT MAX WTF".

Arboretum has some pretty insane pulls some tanks will try to do as well. Even with all FC members we have a hard time with that shit. If they try to do the wall skip in the beehive, they need to be kiting. They aren't going to live through standing still.