Collision detection and tank gameplay

Tanks on PvP are just DPSes with a few twists right now; it is sad to see so much wasted potential on a role that is essential everywhere else.

Anyone who played PvP on MMOs that had collision detection knows this: it's a game changer. Tanks can form shield walls and hold off enemies, while healers keep them alive and DPSes cause heavy damage on anyone on the other side of those shields. Choke points (like bridges, staircases, gateways) create a whole new level of strategy that we just don't have over here.

I've been reading that we are getting some kind of PvP overhaul on 3.2 and think that this would be a nice thing to add. Please look into it SE.

Paladin can use Cover, heal their teammates, and stun lock opponents.They also get PvP skills that can knockback everyone in front of them, boost the defense of all their allies (along with their LB too), and put strong vulnerability debuffs on targets.

I think it's role is pretty concrete in PvP as of now. However having more active gameplay using shields would be interesting

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Originally Posted by Rhode

Paladin can use Cover, heal their teammates, and stun lock opponents.They also get PvP skills that can knockback everyone in front of them, boost the defense of all their allies (along with their LB too), and put strong vulnerability debuffs on targets.

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I understand your point and think it's valid, I played as paladin on PvP for a long time before switching to dark knight. Still, that doesn't negate the fact that tanks are a secondary job on PvP. Healers keep everyone alive, DPSes kill very efficiently, tanks are just the annoying guys you avoid.

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Originally Posted by Rhode

I think it's role is pretty concrete in PvP as of now. However having more active gameplay using shields would be interesting

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My mistake. When I say shield wall I just mean a line of tanks, doesn't have to carry a shield (it just happens to be the way we called it in Warhammer Online).

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Originally Posted by Austherus

I understand your point and think it's valid, I played as paladin on PvP for a long time before switching to dark knight. Still, that doesn't negate the fact that tanks are a secondary job on PvP. Healers keep everyone alive, DPSes kill very efficiently, tanks are just the annoying guys you avoid.

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paladins have insane peel, mitigation and come with a mini ninja burst

casual rock is not the place to judge a class, in wolves den paladins are absolutely insane when played correctly

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Originally Posted by CeveArthu

paladins have insane peel, mitigation and come with a mini ninja burst

casual rock is not the place to judge a class, in wolves den paladins are absolutely insane when played correctly

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I have never said paladin was bad in any way. I think you missed the point of my post.

My point is that the strategy you want with a shield wall already exists in the paladin in another form of peel and buffs, adding in a shield wall system as your example would:

1: be useless in most areas of seal rock because its so open, a gimmick at best
2: adding more power to an already powerful tank

No it doesn't exist. I'm talking about collision detection, about allowing players to build a physical barrier to protect their allies and add a completely new level of gameplay. I'm talking about active interaction between players without relying on the good old "tab + skill number".

I'm saying the strategy of peeling for your allies already exists, i then went on to say that if you also added what you asked for, it would be a gimmick at best and would be adding more power to an already powerful peeler

Just get a row of PLDs and stun lock whoever tries to go past.

or just get some ninjas to put up a doton wall, add in a freeze/tribind and you are golden

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Originally Posted by xxczx

Just get a row of PLDs and stun lock whoever tries to go past.

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Originally Posted by CeveArthu

or just get some ninjas to put up a doton wall, add in a freeze/tribind and you are golden

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I don't even know what to say about these...

Not sure if my typing skills are making it hard to understand what I'm trying to say or not, but I guess it's time to leave this thread for a while now.

I think the Op is trying to say that Tanks are essentially useless in Frontlines.

I can agree with that. "Tanks" are useless. PLD/WAR/DRK are essentially high survivability damage dealers and don't have the tanky utility like they do in PVE. There is no major demand for tanks.

I would also like to see Tanks get some PvP utility, be it through PvP skills or changes to PvP mechanics, just something to make PvP acknowledge "Tanks". Like being able to taunt other players, or kind of like how Holmgang holds a single player face to face with a WAR, it would be interesting to see some way for a tank to hold the attention and stop the enemy from advancing. Perhaps a small radius shield wall or something so that other classes cannot run passed a tank or something.

Tanks useless in frontline? They have pretty useful pvp skills + tank lb and stun. I don't know how you can say skills like pushback, full swing, tetsudo etc. are useless.

The role of a tank in FL is still based around utilty/being tanky. Initiate fights while popping CD's etc and bait the dumb people to hit you and not your DD's or healers. There are a few PvP skills that also help team survivability and also like people have said the LB is also great. What OP is suggesting is just not needed really and good luck trying to organise pugs to be that co ordinated to even use a feature like that; seeing as how half the DPS that queue dont understand the value of doing a lot of damage per second.

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Originally Posted by Austherus

Tanks on PvP are just DPSes with a few twists right now; it is sad to see so much wasted potential on a role that is essential everywhere else...

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I strongly disagree with that statement. Thats the role you chose to be. The best tanks in pvp have realized that they bring so much more value to the team by defending them rather than mindlessly chasing people around far beyond the line and dying alone. A single strategic cover can turn a whole battle around.

Paladin is very strong right now in Seal Rock, and it's probably the class with the largest difference between "actual" power and how it's percieved. Shield Bash + Spirits Within, Glory Slash, Testudo, Divine Veil, Cover, Clemency, and Full Swing create a very powerful defensive support class, which is also capable of locking down a healer for a full 12 seconds. It's really hard to win fights against a good Paladin, and (imo) the first good Paladin does more to win their team the game than the first good Warrior.

Collision detection in a game that already suffers from individual latency. The lel that'd be watching it in action.

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Originally Posted by Grafeit

I think the Op is trying to say that Tanks are essentially useless in Frontlines.

I can agree with that. "Tanks" are useless. PLD/WAR/DRK are essentially high survivability damage dealers and don't have the tanky utility like they do in PVE. There is no major demand for tanks.

I would also like to see Tanks get some PvP utility, be it through PvP skills or changes to PvP mechanics, just something to make PvP acknowledge "Tanks". Like being able to taunt other players, or kind of like how Holmgang holds a single player face to face with a WAR, it would be interesting to see some way for a tank to hold the attention and stop the enemy from advancing. Perhaps a small radius shield wall or something so that other classes cannot run passed a tank or something.

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Thank you for taking your time to write this. It doesn't look like most around here wants to discuss and evaluate ideas in an honest way.

Tank PvP utility? Simple

Enmity generation moves force the target to target you instead. (Just switchs the targets.)
Provoke forces the target to target you for 10 seconds.

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

Tank PvP utility? Simple

Enmity generation moves force the target to target you instead. (Just switchs the targets.)
Provoke forces the target to target you for 10 seconds.

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just no, 10 seconds is a stupidly long time, a 3 second stun is such a long time in wolves den, adding a free 10 second window where healers cant heal allies because they are forced to target the enemy pld is hilariously overpowered

also enmity generation in pvp is and always will be a gimmick, you can create pressure by being a good tank already without having to rely on gimmicks

(also mouseover macro targeting would bypass this anyway)