Paladin Opener (Max Threat)

Hello Everyone,

I don't really ever have issues with capturing or holding threat, just looking to see if anyone has a better rotation than the one I am using. Please post your openers and thoughts. Thank you.

Not much you can really do besides starting with with FoF > Shield Lob/Flash > Circle > Spirits > RoH combo/Flash spam, throwing in a Shield Swipe whenever it procs.

PLD just doesn't have any real way to generate high burst threat due to gated or poorly implemented mechanics.

I open with Provoke, people complain but hey-- They aren't intelligent to understand why. AS WELL.. It's my class, either shut up or pay me sub and I'll play your way. XD

Voke [SW/Scorn/Shield lob (Whatever I feel like throwing in)] Savage> > / flash. Never lose threat unless someone pulls before me.

Shield lob, flash, fof, CoS is my standard opener with more than one mob. if you can get away with it, doing a fast blade on the main target before FoF -> CoS is even better. Shield lob has horrible potency, so using FoF right before your second combo hit will let you get in the max amount of potency attacks before it fades.

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Originally Posted by Enesuia

I open with Provoke, people complain but hey-- They aren't intelligent to understand why. AS WELL.. It's my class, either shut up or pay me sub and I'll play your way. XD

Voke [SW/Scorn/Shield lob (Whatever I feel like throwing in)] Savage> > / flash. Never lose threat unless someone pulls before me.

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Provoke literally does nothing as an opener. You just wasted the CD.

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FoF -> SL -> Flash - > SoS -> Rotate combos

About the only reason I can think of to open with provoke is for an extremely rare case where you need to aggro a mob from further away than a shield lob would allow you to. However I can't recall a single instance since I started tanking where I needed to use it for this. In almost all cases anything you could single pull with provoke, could also be single pulled with shield lob/tomahawk.

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Originally Posted by zakalw3

FoF -> SL -> Flash - > SoS -> Rotate combos

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That rotation wastes a bit of FoF uptime. You are losing one GcD (2.5 seconds) of FoF uptime because Flash does not benefit from FoF's damage boost and you might waste a GcD or two during the run up to get into combat.

Technically the best starting single target enmity generating rotation for a Paladin with a 2.5 GcD is the following: (actions in () are offGcD)

Uncomboed RoH -> (FoF) -> FB -> (CoS) -> SB -> (SW) -> RoH -> RoH Combo -> RoH Combo -> FB -> SB -> (CoS) -> RoH

The "best" AoE enmity/mitigation starting rotation would be:

SL/Uncomboed RoH -> Flash x3 -> (FoF) -> FB -> (CoS) -> SB -> (SW) -> RoH target 1 -> Flash x2 -> RoH combo target 2 -> Flash -> FB -> SB -> (CoS) -> RoH target 3

The reason this opener is the "best" at mitigation is that it will keep all targets blind for a near continuous 21s while also applying RoH's Str debuff to 3 targets.

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Originally Posted by Bashum

About the only reason I can think of to open with provoke is for an extremely rare case where you need to aggro a mob from further away than a shield lob would allow you to. However I can't recall a single instance since I started tanking where I needed to use it for this. In almost all cases anything you could single pull with provoke, could also be single pulled with shield lob/tomahawk.

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The last dungeon that you could single target ranged pull something with provoke but not Shield Lob was Amdapor Keep NM and you would do so to stop the Succubi between the 2nd and 3rd bosses from fireballing you from a safe distance.

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Originally Posted by Enesuia

I open with Provoke, people complain but hey-- They aren't intelligent to understand why. AS WELL.. It's my class, either shut up or pay me sub and I'll play your way. XD

Voke [SW/Scorn/Shield lob (Whatever I feel like throwing in)] Savage> > / flash. Never lose threat unless someone pulls before me.

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I can't think of any reason to open with provoke unless you're trying to pick out a single enemy from a group of enemies from long range. Kind of like those Balloon looking monsters in The Sunken temple of Qarn (since they aren't linked to other mobs and can be Provoked and killed by themselves.) In that situation, trying to open with shield lob might get you the attention of other threats because of the reduced range.

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Originally Posted by Enesuia

I open with Provoke, people complain but hey-- They aren't intelligent to understand why. AS WELL.. It's my class, either shut up or pay me sub and I'll play your way. XD

Voke [SW/Scorn/Shield lob (Whatever I feel like throwing in)] Savage> > / flash. Never lose threat unless someone pulls before me.

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I mean, yes, you can play however you wish, but the provoke move itself will ALWAYS put your enmity as +1 higher than the highest before you provoked. So as an opener... this literally puts you at 1 enmity. ANY hit after will pull more hate than your provoke just did. On the other hand, if you die, someone pulls a crap ton of enmity, you get rev'd, your provoke will put you back on the top of the list. So it CAN generate the most hate possible. But it's purely based on how you use it. It doesn't hurt to use it to start a pull, but it doesn't help you either. Shield lob/tomahawk would prove much more useful. So, I'm not going to sit here and tell you you SHOULDN'T do this. But just incase you don't realize exactly what it is provoke REALLY does (as the description they give in game is kinda crappy).

And since this topic asked for strongest OPENER's for max threat, then yes, I would say FoF being set off immediately would do well for creating just that. The only problem about using FoF immediately is that in the long run, you end up generating less hate/DPS overall. The best results are always from using FoF right before you use RoH (or RA if you are just pushing out dmg as an OT).

Me personally, I usually go shield lob --> flash --> FB/SB/FoF/RoH --> CoS
I've not run into any issues with this as even if every DPS attacks a different target, i can hold and rotate my FB/SB/RoH combo around to hold all of them. Worst case, I'll have to put another flash in afterwards. Best case, I can just continue my RoH rotation to push out more dmg and generate enmity.

Why do so many use Flash? I would think this would be a loss in enmity for an opener. Unless, they have increased Flash enmity potency since last time I checked (I know in 2.3ish they increased it).

Anyways, I don't main PLD but the opener I like to do when I do play the class is: FoF > Lob > CoS > FB > SW > SB > Blood > RoH > RoH combo 1 more time > GB combo > RA combo (FoF falls off). I will usually have really high enmity with this combo. And if someone is catching up, then I do RoH combo a few times when FoF comes back up. As for Lob > Flash, I don't understand how this would generate more threat. You are delaying your RoH combo by 1 GCD when you do this.

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Originally Posted by Enesuia

I open with Provoke

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Simple answer to this, Provoke place you +1 over whoever has highest enmity. At the pull, no one has any anmity, so you are now at +1 enmity. If you open with shield lob, which enmity is generated, I think 1.5x your damage, you then have ~250-300 enimty when opening with just shield lob. The reason that being at +1 enmity at a pull is bad is because ANYTHING will rip hate and cause for a dirty pull.

I used to use FoF in my pull macro (losing several seconds of it) but I've since pushed it back further into the rotation. I usually end up going Shield Lob > Circle of Scorn > Flash > Sheltron > Fast Blade (Shield Swipe if it procs) > Savage Blade (FoF + Bloodbath) > Rage of Halone > Spirits Within. I take a look at the enmity levels at that point and decide whether I need another RoH combo or if I can go right into Goring Blade. I know I lose some DPS using CoS without FoF up, but it just makes me feel a lot more comfortable having that oGCD in there early on when threat is really fragile.

Depends on what I'm doing. For most bosses that require mitigation:

- Shield Lob > FoF > CoS > Bloodbath > Spirits Within > Fast Blade> Shelltron (use Shield Swipe as it procs) > Savage Blade > Rampart > Rage of Halone (applies Debuff) > Fast Blade > Riot Blade > Goring Blade (applies DoT)

From here my combo varies depending on the fight. If greater physical mitigation is required or threat generation is an issue I'll rotate another RoH to reapply Debuff and establish more enmity before falling into Royal Authority, continuing as so:

- > Goring Blade (applies DoT) > Fast Blade > Savage Blade > RoH (Reapplies Buff to ensure timer does not expire) > Fast Blade > Savage Blade > Royal Authority > Fast Blade > Riot Blade > Goring Blade (reapplies DoT) > Fast Blade > Savage Blade> RoH (reapplies debuff) > Repeat.

After the first Royal Authority you fall into the same pattern of RA>GB>ROH, keeping up both debuff and DoT at all times.

For fights in which physical mitigation and enmity are not issues, I change my rotation to allow the debuff to fall off rotation 2 RA combos for Every one RoH combo, like so:

- RoH > GB > RA > RA > GB > ROH > RA > GB > RA > RoH > GB etc.

Goring Blade becomes the staple of the rotation.

For typical mob pulls, on the other hand, my opener is:

- Shield lob (on mob #1) > Flash (all) >Shelltron (use Shield Swipe as it procs as a +1 for a new target) > FoF> CoS (all) > Spirits Within > Fast blade (first target) > Savage Blade (new target) > RoH (new target) > Flash (all)

From here my rotation can vary quite a bit depending on the number of mobs and how focused or spread out the Dps are. Typically, I prefer to rotate the RoH combo in such a way that either Savage Blade or RoH have hit every target available at least once. Which targets get hit with Savage Blade and which get hit with RoH depends on the Dps (and very rarely the dmg being dealt by the mob). Targets at higher risk of being pulled off of me by high Dps are priority targets for the higher enmity move (RoH). Once every target has been sufficiently secured by enmity, I stop my RoH rotation and focus on rotating Goring Blade/Royal Authority among the remaining mobs until they are dead.

Sheltron lasts 10s, you can pop it before you pull and proc Shield Swipe sooner/have Sheltron back up sooner. Otherwise these openers are fine.

I go FoF (If its a trial) mainly as a signal that I'm pulling, then I go SW in between cooldowns, then FB > CoS > RB > GB > then RoH combo. The reason for this is that the FoF buff will be placed on both DoTs for maximum DPS, and the RoH combo will most likely be up before anything comes up that really needs mitigating (if not then its your gear thats an issue, not your combo). As others have said, I guess you can pop sheltron in between RB and GB for a SS proc (use it between GB and FB), but I prefer to save the skill for mitigation.

The main thing to take away is that using shield lob, then using spirits within while you move through the boss looks cool AF (especially if you follow it up with CS for maximum hate gains).

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Originally Posted by xvshanevx

Why do so many use Flash? I would think this would be a loss in enmity for an opener. Unless, they have increased Flash enmity potency since last time I checked (I know in 2.3ish they increased it). As for Lob > Flash, I don't understand how this would generate more threat. You are delaying your RoH combo by 1 GCD when you do this.

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For a PLD, the only other AoE enmity generator is CoS. This is a 25 sec cooldown, so it's not a constant, spammable AoE that every other tank class has. So when pulling mobs, in order to grab enmity on all of the mob, flash is often used. Especially since in lower level dungeons, CoS isn't an option as it's a lvl 50 move. On a single boss, then yea, sure, flash isn't needed. But I've definitely had my dungeon runs where the DPS decide to all attack different enemies, and sometimes, decide to open with AoE's. Not a problem for me when I use my flash to cover the mob and I usually still have plenty of time to start up a rotation on the mob to build up hate.

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Originally Posted by Enesuia

I open with Provoke

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do you... come from swtor? hell, i'm not even sure if taunts still work the same in swtor as they did years ago...

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Originally Posted by SpookyGhost

Sheltron lasts 10s, you can pop it before you pull and proc Shield Swipe sooner/have Sheltron back up sooner. Otherwise these openers are fine.

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I actually started putting it there specifically for Thordan EX, because then the block is timed to catch the first cleave.

After that it just became habit. :3

Shield Lob> CoS> Flash> flash>flash>repeat flash equal to 2 greater than number of enemies, unless they will die super fast. Sure there's weaving here or there, but this is basically it.

SL>CoS>Flash>Flash>FoF RoH combo then fight like normal and watch the other party members enmity bars and flash when necessary.

If you can chain fast blade -> savage blade before pull, then (provoke ->) fight or flight + rage of halone is your highest threat generating opener.

There are a few adds before boss/boss transition/phase transition you can pull this off.

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Originally Posted by Enesuia

I open with Provoke, people complain but hey-- They aren't intelligent to understand why.

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Oh look the tank pulled.... aaaanndd now I'm tanking. GJ buddy

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Originally Posted by Enesuia

I open with Provoke, people complain but hey-- They aren't intelligent to understand why. AS WELL.. It's my class, either shut up or pay me sub and I'll play your way.

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Definitely trolling, many people fell for it. Well played Enesuia, well played.

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Originally Posted by Mendalas

Definitely trolling, many people fell for it. Well played Enesuia, well played.

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I wish he was - but I've seen a number of GLA/PLDs in the past stating they indeed do this. Malicewolf already explained how and why in some situations it can be possible, but is it the best option? No it isn't. It simply is not meant for that! Provoke is your 'get out of jail' card if you lose hate and need it back on you in a hurry, it's not meant to generate huge amounts in a burst.

I think also a lot of players that use Provoke to pull are just old FFXI players still stuck in old habits (where Provoke literally was used for pulling seeing as it worked in a completely different manner in FFXI). But anyway...

Shield Lob with the standard Fast Blade-Savage Blade-Rage of Halone combo with three to four Flashes interspersed between them is what I've long used as my usual 'opener' for GLA/PLD tanking since I first started my tanking career in ARR way back in the Beta. Circle of Scorn and Goring Blade naturally are high level additions to this, but I still use this basic opener even at level 60 and in almost all cases it doesn't usually fail me (often when I lose hate it's because either I've fumbled the combo due to my clumsy keypressing, or the fight I'm in I'm against someone else who is geared better (usually a DPS). It's basically GLA/PLD's 'meat and potatoes' for me. :)

fof+sheltron > lob > %mit+bb > goring combo laced with cos sw ss > savage combo > royal auth combo > goring combo (usually get goring refreshed under fof)
Seems to work best for me rather than opening with an enmity mod combo which I tend to get overpowered in hate if I do. Then again I usually only tank in a clutch when fc runs don't have a tank so I'm routinely going up against dps and heals with 20+ il on me may be different (only reason it's that close an il gap is full str accs from my main)

On 3 pack pulls 5 flashes followed by goring rotation ocd attack moves and appropriate buffing in between. Assuming everything isn't dead either hallowed+1-2 more flashes or cover on closest person to over taken