DPS Potential of All Classes in Savage Alex

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...sLaoo/pubhtml#

Seems fine to me. DPS classes are maxing at 2.5k, while warriors on only one turn (and 1 warrior at that, the rest are very much lower), is at 1.4k on A1S with massive healing support (the rest of the A2-4 they're doing 1.1k or less, exluding the massive trash pull that is A2 which isnt a good indicator of class output overall since most fights aren't designed this way).

Surprisingly enough, DRKs are outdamaging warriors on 2 out of 4 turns.

In the words of our great and ominous overlord Yoshi P., I think the issue here is simply people needing to "Git Good".

Yeah....Those numbers are so fluffed that you can't eve start to think of considering them

Tsk. I see no healers. Healers be slackin'.

http://45.media.tumblr.com/f62514978...ko3bo1_400.gif

From the looks of OP's Lodestone info he's never set foot in Savage and is just slinging around numbers. :x

Literally wearing the ring from A1S....

Cleared it like the first or second week it was out.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ersion-4/page4

Look at last post. Also, maybe read better?

Additionally how are parses bait? This is the official and verified source of the top raiding guilds atm posting their parces.

Why is there so much salt in this forum? Do people usually just respond emotionally rather than logically here?

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Originally Posted by wonka11

Literally wearing the ring from A1S....

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Oh. It's showing your caster gear. I made an educated guess based on the lack of minion from T13 and Primal pony drops.

I was wrong, cool, you've cleared A1S then.

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Additionally how are parses bait? This is the official and verified source of the top raiding guilds atm posting their parces.

Why is there so much salt in this forum? Do people usually just respond emotionally rather than logically here?

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What's bait in your post is your closing statement telling people to "git good" when there's a lot wrong with your post. On one hand you say that A2 should be disregarded as far as WAR DPS is concerned, but on the other hand you quote SMN DPS numbers from it. It's already well known that DRK MT damage is higher than WAR MT damage, too. The thing is all you've done is throw a bunch of parses up here and told people to "git good" without any consideration for the impact that things like things like party composition (it matters) or gear (it also matters) have on those parse numbers. That's the bait.

They probably went overboard with the Bane buff.

How good do I need to get in order to not run out of TP in 3 minutes? I'm pressing my buttons really hard but they still use up my TP.

I've watched all of the Mr Happy guides but I still can't figure out how to make my heal instant or my stances not break combos. I also keep missing blocks on magic attacks, wtf! Also my hate modifiers on my weaker attacks that have no maim to boost them never seem to catch up to the hate modifiers on warrior attacks - is this a gear issue??? I guess I'm just not as skilled as warrior players.

Who peed in your cornflakes?

Oh, right. Warriors.

I can't take a leaderboard that allows fake parses like the drg a4s parse seriously

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Originally Posted by SpookyGhost

Who peed in your cornflakes?

Oh, right. Warriors.

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Unless you believe that all warriors just happened to git gud en masse when 2.1 dropped (or dragoons just "figured out" how to survive when their mdef was buffed, or [other example]), it is clearly the dev team who has peed in my corn flakes, not warriors. Luckily, I prefer cheerios. Either way, the OP is an exceptional individual.

The thing that bothers me is how we say people who do very high damage are the good players. I've witnessed LOTs of players who do average damage AND do mechanics correctly 100% of the time while not being a burden to the healer. Why are these players called bad players?

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

*SNIP*

What's bait in your post is your closing statement telling people to "git good" when there's a lot wrong with your post. On one hand you say that A2 should be disregarded as far as WAR DPS is concerned, but on the other hand you quote SMN DPS numbers from it. It's already well known that DRK MT damage is higher than WAR MT damage, too. The thing is all you've done is throw a bunch of parses up here and told people to "git good" without any consideration for the impact that things like things like party composition (it matters) or gear (it also matters) have on those parse numbers. That's the bait.

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I agree.

I have not cleared A1S yet. People who parse show me at different numbers, but I am aware. I do my same attacks all the time, but it's the group that determines some things. For example, I'm NIN. If there's no WAR or other NIN, I have to spend more time keeping Dancing Edge up and can barely get Aeolian Edge in there without letting one of my DoTs drop.

All that this showed me is PLD and AST really need some love on the dps front.

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Originally Posted by Jim_Berry

I have not cleared A1S yet.

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You have the option to pick good groups then. If you're a 2k dps nin, you're not going to be sitting with lower dps people or bad groups. Someone higher up is going to want you, thats how it always works.

You're either choosing to stay with people who are not performing at your skill level, or your perception of where your skill level resides at is much higher than the actual truth.

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Originally Posted by wonka11

You have the option to pick good groups then. If you're a 2k dps nin, you're not going to be sitting with lower dps people or bad groups. Someone higher up is going to want you, thats how it always works.

You're either choosing to stay with people who are not performing at your skill level, or your perception of where your skill level resides at is much higher than the actual truth.

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This is the most mentally inept thing that I have seen in the past few days. First i would like you to point me to a 2k NIN parse please, If you have it I want it. Secondly a good player may be stuck with bad groups for a number of reasons, the two most common are they do not have the time to put in to be with a static and 2 is that we are at a .x5 patch where most good groups are established and whether they are preparing for the new raid content or are taking a break.


Also just for non bait purposes the true DPS potentials to my knowledge are as follows (for single target mostly A3S and A4S):
PLD: ~900 if you push it on a good run
WAR: ~1100-1200
DRK: ~1100
MNK: ~1400
DRG: ~1300
NIN: ~1200-1300
BLM: ~1200-1300
SMN: ~1200-1300
BRD: ~1200
MCH: ~1200
WHM: unsure all of my WHM's have been solo healing
SCH: ~500 i think can get as high as 800
AST: havnt played with one in a raid.

NOTE: This is assuming full i210 BiS and is around what I would expect in very ideal cases from fights like A3S and A4S obviously party comp/start/deaths and other things will change these.

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Originally Posted by G-Hand

This is the most mentally inept thing that I have seen in the past few days. First i would like you to point me to a 2k NIN parse please, If you have it I want it. Secondly a good player may be stuck with bad groups for a number of reasons, the two most common are they do not have the time to put in to be with a static and 2 is that we are at a .x5 patch where most good groups are established and whether they are preparing for the new raid content or are taking a break.


Also just for non bait purposes the true DPS potentials to my knowledge are as follows (for single target mostly A3S and A4S):
PLD: ~900 if you push it on a good run
WAR: ~1100-1200
DRK: ~1100
MNK: ~1400
DRG: ~1300
NIN: ~1200-1300
BLM: ~1200-1300
SMN: ~1200-1300
BRD: ~1200
MCH: ~1200
WHM: unsure all of my WHM's have been solo healing
SCH: ~500 i think can get as high as 800
AST: havnt played with one in a raid.

NOTE: This is assuming full i210 BiS and is around what I would expect in very ideal cases from fights like A3S and A4S obviously party comp/start/deaths and other things will change these.

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Oh boy, back to reddit with you. If you're not parsing 2k on monk/nin which we see people doing in PUGS now, then its either gear or player skill. The monk in my group pushed 1400 during multiple phases of the fight BEFORE 200 ilvl weapons with 180/190 gear.

He finished with an average of 1-1.2k dps if he wiped or higher if his gameplay was perfect back then.

And whatever the reason the player has for not clearing A1S, if they have the skill, then ultimately its their choice that they're not clearing. Don't have the time? Don't play an MMO or post about your class balance or being a "good player", since you're not going to be putting up the numbers to prove it.

Your numbers on player dps potentials in 180 gear at best. For God sakes theres youtube videos of people parsing 1200 on dummies with ravana weapon when the game launched. If you cant put those numbers up minimally now with 200/210 gear, we know the problem isn't class balance or the developers, It's YOU.

All these tears and the fact of the matter is that claims to dps output being comparable tanks is due to players not playing well or being undergeared. Thems the facts.

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Originally Posted by wonka11

All these tears and the fact of the matter is that claims to dps output being comparable tanks is due to players not playing well or being undergeared. Thems the facts.

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He asked for 2k nin parse, I guess you don't have one to show?

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Originally Posted by Critical-Limit

He asked for 2k nin parse, I guess you don't have one to show?

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Play a warrior, people ask for 2k nin parse because they can't put up numbers that top tier players are putting up already.

/logic.

I'm not here for you to learn your class, I'm just telling you from what I've seen people do. If you can't do the research yourself, it doesn't help anyone that you post here about class balance.

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Originally Posted by wonka11

Play a warrior, people ask for 2k nin parse because they can't put up numbers that top tier players are putting up already.

/logic.

I'm not here for you to learn your class, I'm just telling you from what I've seen people do. If you can't do the research yourself, it doesn't help anyone that you post here about class balance.

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A simple no would have sufficed. I get the feeling you're referring to random spike damage while parsing and not the overall parse of the entire fight which is why people want to see an example.

It's basic debate... You make a claim if someone doubts you and asks for proof. If you don't provide it but instead attack it makes you look like you don't have anything to back up your claim.

You could stop all debate immediately if you just throw up 2k DPS parses. But instead you dance around it.

So someone could come in here and say BRDs should be doing 1.9k dPS. And claim they see it everywhere but instead of showing proof when asked, they get to just say "you're bad if you can't do it I see it everywhere." Suddenly everyone has to believe them. If I was in your shoes I would wipe the smug off his post with a parse. But you didn't why is that?

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Originally Posted by wonka11

Oh boy, back to reddit with you. If you're not parsing 2k on monk/nin which we see people doing in PUGS now, then its either gear or player skill. The monk in my group pushed 1400 during multiple phases of the fight BEFORE 200 ilvl weapons with 180/190 gear.

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I mean, there are no 2k single target parses in that whole googledoc you listed. There aren't even 2k parses with encounters with two targets like a1s. So... the question is, is the googledoc you are listing extremely out of date (and if so why are you linking it), or is it up to date?

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Originally Posted by wonka11

Oh boy, back to reddit with you. If you're not parsing 2k on monk/nin which we see people doing in PUGS now, then its either gear or player skill. The monk in my group pushed 1400 during multiple phases of the fight BEFORE 200 ilvl weapons with 180/190 gear.

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2k on monk/ninja in pugs... do you mean spike damage or overall DPS? Cause um. No?

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Originally Posted by Tsilyi

I mean, there are no 2k single target parses in that whole googledoc you listed. There aren't even 2k parses with encounters with two targets like a1s. So... the question is, is the googledoc you are listing extremely out of date (and if so why are you linking it), or is it up to date?

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He's probably talking about A2S again. Of course anyone with any AoE attacks is going to have vastly bloated numbers in a 10 minute long glorified trash pull. In his OP he mentioned DPS classes doing 2500 DPS, but that doesn't happen in any other floor of Savage.

The funny part is that he then said that we should discount warrior DPS in that same floor. xD

The top 160+ spots are dominated by SMN with a couple of BLM in there, but once you get down into the 2200 range there are indeed a couple of monks sitting there. I honestly think there's so few since people have melee drive the walker.

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

2k on monk/ninja in pugs... do you mean spike damage or overall DPS? Cause um. No?



He's probably talking about A2S again. Of course anyone with any AoE attacks is going to have vastly bloated numbers in a 10 minute long glorified trash pull. In his OP he mentioned DPS classes doing 2500 DPS, but that doesn't happen in any other floor of Savage

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"For God sakes theres youtube videos of people parsing 1200 on dummies with ravana weapon when the game launched."

This comment here also makes me believe he ment single target.

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Originally Posted by Critical-Limit

"For God sakes theres youtube videos of people parsing 1200 on dummies with ravana weapon when the game launched."

This comment here also makes me believe he ment single target.

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OP cleared A1S, you'd think he would know all about downtime and comparing actual raid parses to dummy parses. :|

Funny thing is if he's talking about spikes, 2k is pretty low for a melee dps. DRK and WAR spike higher than that even in the hands of an average player.

I dont know man you'd think he might step back and maybe check my lodestone to see what I have cleared and seen that its everything, but that might be giving him too much credit in the ways of mental prowess. That being said if he is talking about burst then 2500 is kinda on the low end for DPS in gear. A2S cant really count because it is SMN the floor. The only fights that really count these are A3S and A4S and even then you have to look at kill time because A4S can be pushed so that people dont have to die or handle nissi.

That 1925.08 A4S parse for DRG is absurd and fake lol
There's no way to achieve that on a fight-length dummy parse, let alone an actual fight with downtime.
The image link for the parse is broken too.

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Originally Posted by G-Hand

This is the most mentally inept thing that I have seen in the past few days. First i would like you to point me to a 2k NIN parse please, If you have it I want it. Secondly a good player may be stuck with bad groups for a number of reasons, the two most common are they do not have the time to put in to be with a static and 2 is that we are at a .x5 patch where most good groups are established and whether they are preparing for the new raid content or are taking a break.


Also just for non bait purposes the true DPS potentials to my knowledge are as follows (for single target mostly A3S and A4S):
PLD: ~900 if you push it on a good run
WAR: ~1100-1200
DRK: ~1100
MNK: ~1400
DRG: ~1300
NIN: ~1200-1300
BLM: ~1200-1300
SMN: ~1200-1300
BRD: ~1200
MCH: ~1200
WHM: unsure all of my WHM's have been solo healing
SCH: ~500 i think can get as high as 800
AST: havnt played with one in a raid.

NOTE: This is assuming full i210 BiS and is around what I would expect in very ideal cases from fights like A3S and A4S obviously party comp/start/deaths and other things will change these.

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I can concur these numbers are accurate for standard party compositions.

I don't place too much bearing on those DPS ranking numbers that are being put up. There are 2 crucial pieces of data missing:
1. Party composition, I'm 99% certain all those top parses contain an AST feeding the Parser
2. Clear time: this is so so important, if the party clears faster, everybody gets a higher DPS since the time elapsed from the burst numbers is less. There are a fair few cases where a high ranking guy has a high DPS parse if only because his party cleared the fight exceptionally fast. If you want true DPS, go to the FFlogs, take the DPS numbers, multiply by the clear time in seconds and divide by a standard clear time (normally the enrage time e.g. 150 seconds on faust).

A4S parse numbers is also dependent on RnG, if a DPS is getting quarantined a lot, it will drop the numbers considerably.

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Originally Posted by wonka11

Oh boy, back to reddit with you. If you're not parsing 2k on monk/nin which we see people doing in PUGS now, then its either gear or player skill. The monk in my group pushed 1400 during multiple phases of the fight BEFORE 200 ilvl weapons with 180/190 gear.

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Dayum, either your parse is on steroids, or it's just out right broken LOL.

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The monk in my group pushed 1400 during multiple phases

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Obvious merged parse is obvious.

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Originally Posted by Houston009

Dayum, either your parse is on steroids, or it's just out right broken LOL.



Obvious merged parse is obvious.

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Real men don't do roids