[ffxiv-future] A request for "Player-Selectable Difficulty Scaling"

Greetings.

This is a repeat of one of my old threads, but I'd like to bring it up again - and preferably without the trolls, as the world is a fairly diverse place, and there are people of every different stripe imaginable.

I have friends who have difficulties handling stress and anxiety, and they also want to be able to participate in the Lv50 content in Final Fantasy XIV. As it exists now, Dzemael Darkhold and the Hyper Ifrit Fight are too stress-inducing for these people, and their personal health can suffer as a result.

However, they want to experience this content on their terms. Think of it like guildleves. Guildleves have a star system in place that allows you to decide the difficulty level, and with 1.19, it now spells out exactly how many levels above you the leve can be set to.

This is precisely what we need for the endgame content. Don't make everything arbitrarily difficult, it's too restrictive in that manner. Instead, have rewards scale according to difficulty settings. For the endgame content, let's use a three-star difficulty system as an example.

1-Star: Easy Mode, 14 Levels Below Original Difficulty (Grants NG equipment)
2-Star: Average Mode, 7 Levels Below Original Difficulty (Grants +1 equipment)
3-Star: Hardcore Mode, Original Difficulty (Grants Dungeon-Specific Equipment, like the Canopus Guisarme)

I strongly encourage Yoshi-P to examine the feasibility of such a system, because my friends have been telling me that if they can't be given the choice to decide how difficult they want the endgame content to be, they would not remain with Final Fantasy XIV. This is their ONLY major gripe.

Choice matters. Being able to complete all of the content the game has to offer on your own terms is important.

It's not fun when you look at the content, and realize: "Oh geez. If I do this, I'll get an anxiety attack and have to chuff all of my meds - and that's gonna cost me several times more than the subscription fee alone. This sucks."

So I would appreciate it if the FFXIV developers would be considerate in regards to these unique situations.

I ask the thread's respondents to please be thoughtful and polite before replying. Responses such as "Then they shouldn't play this game", are terribly rude and inconsiderate - and consequently, reflects badly on the community as a whole. Also, saying that "Ifrit has an easy mode", is not applicable in this situation as that can only be completed once, and repeated if someone in your party has the quest. It is a very limited option.

MMORPGs are meant to be inclusive. If you want to be rude or trollish, I suggest you go to EVE Online's forums.

Thank you for reading.

if people doing it on easy mode can never get what drops form the hard mode version I am completely fine with this method for everything.

I honestly think players have been spoiled by scalable content in WoW and the clones, it does not exist anywhere outside mmos for the most part with a few exceptions here and there. But to make everyone happy, as long as the drops are segregated where easy mode can never get good endgame gear I am all for it.

There is already an easy mode for Ifrit, it's the 4 man version, go and do that. Oh but it doesn't drop shiny weapons. Of course not, that's what the hard mode is for.

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Originally Posted by Xatsh

if people doing it on easy mode can never get what drops form the hard mode version I am completely fine with this method for everything.

I honestly think players have been spoiled by scalable content in WoW and the clones, it does not exist anywhere outside mmos for the most part with a few exceptions here and there. But to make everyone happy, as long as the drops are segregated where easy mode can never get good endgame gear I am all for it.

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This, though I admit I'm very amused by the thought of people not being able to handle stress from a game like FFXIV. This isn't exactly Amnesia: The Dark Descent.

But still, -17 levels? Is this intended for your L50 friends? Can they not handle anything that doesn't just drop dead as soon as they look at it?

suport this idea 100% im not bothered by the stress factor but sometimes im just not in the mood for hardcore mode or my girl wants me to be freed up sooner rather than later this can def. help in that aspect if i can complete a battle faster becuase my group did easy or even medium mode and i understand about the friends who dont deal with stress well had some like that on xi so that being said i hope yoshi and the team listen to your idea would be nice to see implamented

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Originally Posted by Frein

This, though I admit I'm very amused by the thought of people not being able to handle stress from a game like FFXIV. This isn't exactly Amnesia: The Dark Descent.

But still, -17 levels? Is this intended for your L50 friends? Can they not handle anything that doesn't just drop dead as soon as they look at it?

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Let me propose a scenario: Let's think of it as a training mode for the dungeon for players to practice strategies in. They develop ideas, strategies and acclimate themselves to the unique setting the dungeon offers. When they feel ready, they bump up the difficulty. And so on. Bear in mind that each dungeon is unique, and has their own quirks and characteristics. Such a function would help more casual players to "learn" the dungeon prior to doing the Hardcore run.

Some people have unique types of stress and anxiety disorders that can be randomly triggered by as little as one player's HP going yellow, or being overwhelmed by enemies. Yes, they exist.

I'm not trying to be rude, and my sympathy goes out to your friends, but if they can't handle video games why are they playing them? Or at least play one that doesn't require "stress" like playing the sims or something. I hear Lego Universe is a very easy going MMO.

I have no problem with this type of system being put in place, as long as rewards differ based upon difficulty, as you have outlined.

I think it would be incredibly amusing if all endgame content had tiers of difficulty you had to go through. Lets take the ogre from DH for example.

Tier 1 (for just quest completion): regular tank and spank no bogeys no drop, beat that? Good time for lv2
Tier 2 Ogre WITH bogeys, obviously this would screw up all tactics for him as it should. Time for lv3
Tier 3 Ogre as it is now.

I think it would be interesting and fun to have endgame content expand on top of itself like that. Keep all the good gear for the hardest difficulty but add a step system all players had to go through. Each step would add new dynamics to the dungeon/area that completely screws up the tactics players built thus far. It would add extra life to the content and keep players on thier toes the whole time

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Originally Posted by SilvertearRen

Some people have unique types of stress and anxiety disorders that can be randomly triggered by as little as one player's HP going yellow, or being overwhelmed by enemies. Yes, they exist.

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I don't want to be rude, but how do these people get by in their everyday lives? I'd imagine they're constantly in a state of complete nervous breakdown.

Tell your friends to get some meds. Honestly though, they should go see a doctor if theyre getting anxious over a video game to the point where it affects their health.

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Originally Posted by SilvertearRen

I have friends who have difficulties handling stress and anxiety, and they also want to be able to participate in the Lv50 content in Final Fantasy XIV. As it exists now, Dzemael Darkhold and the Hyper Ifrit Fight are too stress-inducing for these people, and their personal health can suffer as a result.

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Riddle me this, if your contending some sort of "Training" mode should exist for players who get....Stressed? you said.

If someone is playing a video game and mere death causes them "Stress" I think there are other issues that should be looked at before asking the game to conform to their every whim. Not trying to be rude or anything but people need to take their mental health needs into consideration before undertaking a potentialy stressfull task to them.

Thankfully for these people the game has it's own built in training system...death.

There is 0 repurcussion for failing a darkhold run aside from some durabillity loss, take doing the dungeon and being killed...training. You can't expect the game to toss on some fleece mittens to let you feel out every nook and cranny of a dungeon prior to actually playing it.

Hell if you don't want to learn the dungeon hundreds of people have it the dungeon and all it's quirks document on the internet, in turn creating a training manual of sorts that just takes some practice to learn.

Asking for a "Easy mode" for everything is just a massive redundancy when learning the game can come through existing mechanics inside the game.

If someone finds the death of their pixelated character "Stressfull" I suggest they avoid video games, or at least the ones that include death (And often a more serious pentalty than just armour repair)

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Originally Posted by Isaaru

Tell your friends to get some meds. Honestly though, they should go see a doctor if theyre getting anxious over a video game to the point where it affects their health.

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Comments like these are not welcome in this thread. I specifically asked for you people to be more considerate, and you're failing quite horribly at that.

I'd try to justify everything, but the point of this is to give people flexibility and choice. This isn't about just my friends' health, but a fundamental aspect of the game that needs to be addressed.

I don't like it when games force a tough battle on me without the option to adjust the difficulty - I don't always have time to spend one whole hour on a single boss.

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Originally Posted by SilvertearRen

I don't like it when games force a tough battle on me without the option to adjust the difficulty - I don't always have time to spend one whole hour on a single boss.

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Then don't do that content. Nothing is being "forced" upon you. And if I'm not mistaken, there is no boss battle in the entire game that is one hour long.

I don't mind the idea of a difficulty setting for various reasons:

Easy - Strictly for mission completion. Less enemies, lower level, etc. No drops.
Medium - Basic level and combat style. Normal levels, average drops.
Hard - Intense combat, should require advanced jobs, higher level enemies, higher chance at drops.

That would be fine. But do not parade the idea around because you feel your being "forced" into doing hard content.

Hmm...it's kinda hard to make a compromise for something like this. I suppose it's fair though. If you want better loot: You're going to have to work for it. :/

Firstly, you state that you don't have "an hour" to do certain content. Well, nothing currently available really takes an hour to accomplish. Ifrit is easily done within 15 minutes (and only has a 30 minute timer, at that.) Darkhold is also easily beaten within 30 minutes, so again, not an hour. That wraps up your end-game. So that point is kinda moot to your argument.

Second, "casual" players, or "easily stressed" players have been given a WHOLE video game of content that is easy to accomplish and stress-free. Story missions, class misions, crafting, gathering, materia/spiritbonding, several lower-tiered dungeons, camps, behest, leves, escort missions, Strongholds, a higher-tiered dungoen (Darkhold is not difficult to accomplish, all that is required is a little knowledge on the instance, and several practice attempts.)

So with all this available in-game for the type of people you are looking out for, please leave the one challenging battle currently available alone. For the record, I'm not opposed to opening up the option to "re-do" to 4-man Ifrit fight. However, leave the current and all future Hyper modes alone. They were implemented for players who want a challenge and to feel rewarded as such.

I do like the idea of scalable difficulty, quite a bit. (For what it's worth, in Toto-rak you can already decide which path you're interested in taking and how difficult the instance will be as a result, and it works fairly well, so I think the devs are already thinking along these lines.) At the very least, it's nice for when you're unsure about the strategy on something and want to test it out and gradually work up to the highest difficulty level with a group.

In general my suggestion to your friends, in perfect seriousness and kindness, is that XIV probably isn't the game for them - different forms of entertainment will appeal and be tolerable to different people, and an MMO like XIV probably just isn't a good fit. Please refer them to the 'A Word To Our Players' message that pops up at the opening screen to FFXIV. However, I feel the basic idea has merit regardless.

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Originally Posted by Xatsh

if people doing it on easy mode can never get what drops form the hard mode version I am completely fine with this method for everything.

I honestly think players have been spoiled by scalable content in WoW and the clones, it does not exist anywhere outside mmos for the most part with a few exceptions here and there. But to make everyone happy, as long as the drops are segregated where easy mode can never get good endgame gear I am all for it.

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Have you ever played a console game, ever? Most console games have multiple difficulty settings, hell most PC games have multiple difficulty settings.

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Originally Posted by Tanoshii

Have you ever played a console game, ever? Most console games have multiple difficulty settings, hell most PC games have multiple difficulty settings.

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The obvious answer to this is: Not the good ones.

Edit: Before you get in a huff, this was a joke.

I just have to ask, did your friends level up to 50 in a group of 8 fighting enemies 5 levels below themselves the while time? My hp bar constantly goes to yellow no matter what I do in this game, and if I had their stress management issues, I would never play anything where death can happen.

I am opposed to this. It seems like there's a movement in games to make every ounce of content experienceable by even the most incompetent of players. That takes away a significant drive to experience content for other players, while at the same time eviscerating the difficulty on the broad scale.

In essence, it's a move to make FFXIV even more grindy, and less challenging. And that is something that I feel would be detrimental to this game, if not any other game.

To place an easymode version of all of the challenging content is akin to removing it, and I pray that SE doesn't go this route.

Hmmm...

Maybe but,


If playing a video game causes you to have anxiety attacks and medical problems.... maybe you shouldn't be playing a game. They are designed for fun and you clearly have issues if you're having to chug pills to play a game. Seek medical attention asap.

oh hi hellfire citadel's buff.
NO

MMOs aren't for everyone. Well, some MMO content isn't for everyone I should say.

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Originally Posted by PrettyPrincess

Well, some MMO content isn't for everyone I should say.

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That is the best way to sum up an answer to this thread. Plain and simple: Not ever facet of MMORPGs is tailored to all, as it should be.

Well, basically, as long as the easier difficulties had fewer (i.e. a smaller or different drop set) rewards, I don't think leveldowned versions of things would be detrimental to the game. If the different drop set included lower-level pieces as well, this would actually be a potentially viable way to expand the level and scope of content in the game, I think. (I know I'd like to do a lower leveled Ifrit fight as soon as I was high enough to be useful in the party, especially if I got drops which would then benefit me as I climbed to 50 where I could do the Hyper Mode Ifrit fight.)

However, the idea that not all challenges in an MMO are for everyone is true - this was part of the core idea of the game, when "you can experience the main story content on a gatherer or crafter job" was still part of the spec - the Hyper Ifrit fight is for people who are trying to challenge themselves with a difficult fight, and get some pretty excellent rewards as a result. While the total content in this game is still /fairly/ low, your friends should be able to know their own limits and pick their challenges accordingly; if they can't feel like they're fully enjoying the game without doing content that they're not capable of handling for medical or personal reasons, this really isn't a game they're going to enjoy in the long term. :(

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Originally Posted by Teakwood

While the total content in this game is still /fairly/ low

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Liked your post but totally disagree with this. There is: crafting, gathering, story missions, grand company quests, class quests, side quests, leves, behests, escort missions, strongholds, beastmen camps, materia system, dungeons/instances, RPing, exploring, a primal battle, and on the horizon: hamlet battles, jobs, job quests, new primal battles, new instanced dungeons, pvp, etc, etc.

So, the game has a wide range of options available. Not to mention all the little gimmicks a person can create on their own (naked races, LS events, etc.)

Also darkhold and ifrit are hardly stressful. it's only stressful when people start yelling on vent ; ;

Belial: True, point taken. Coming back from a long hiatus I've actually been rather surprised at how much there -is- to do, and I certainly haven't gotten bored yet, especially given their changes to DoL, which I've loved since initial release and has just gotten better.

Compared to other games, though (FFXI, in my experience), and especially at level cap, which the OP's friend's clearly are at if they're attempting the Ifrit fight, in terms of DoW/DoM content, there's not a -whole- lot to do that's not either too difficult for them to be comfortable (Hyper Ifrit, probably Dzemael) or too easy for them to not get bored, which is why I think downscale options for the difficulty might not necessarily be a bad idea. I was using 'content' to refer to a specific subset of content.

(Also, it wasn't a slam on the game, for what it's worth; it's just an observed fact that the game doesn't have -too- much content as it is, which the development team is working to remedy on a daily basis. Which is awesome. I'm planning on paying for the game and grinding classes to 50 on the promise of content to be added in the future. I'm quite patient ^^)

as my wife sounds pretty much as you described I understand where you are coming from but she is just not going to do these events, as people already mentioned Ifrit Easy Mode is there so you can experience the Ifrit fight without doing the end game version. However It would be good if the easy one was repeatable for those sort of people.

And to as whoever it was that asked how these sort of people coped in every day surroundings, the answer is with difficulty, hence something like an mmo is very good for them where they can experience alot of people without really being with a lot of people.

God no. This isn't a single-player game. Skyrim is coming out with that very feature in 2 weeks. Guess what? It's a single-player game. Play it.

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Originally Posted by SilvertearRen

Some people have unique types of stress and anxiety disorders that can be randomly triggered by as little as one player's HP going yellow, or being overwhelmed by enemies. Yes, they exist.

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Honestly, this probably isn't the game for them then. At the very least they should probably stick to DPS, playing the healer would probably make their heads explode.

Anyway, I'm all for 'normal' modes on the higher rank dungeons, if anything so that you can acquire some lower gear that lets you tackle the 'hard mode' dungeons more effectively, although you could probably just get some crafted as an alternative.

Let's make an instance that nobody will do because they don't rewards anything. Does anyone do mini ifrit for fun? no, bc it doesnt drops shiny lewtz.

Agreed.

Some people seek fun on these games, not stressful content. An awesome raid system reference is Dragonica...it's pretty much what OP suggested...it has scalling difficulty in exchange for a much superior loot or, at least, different loot. By the system they use there would be like you having an AF piece dropping exclusively from a certain difficulty level...so if the player want to solo his entire AF he will need to subdue the raid with overleveling, actually losing the optimal experience and level for the loot (exactly like happened to Toto-rak here...you can solo it at 50...but the overall gaming experience and loot usefulness will be damaged). Also, they added there a evaluation system based on intented performance there...so if the dude is too low or too high for that content he might not have access to full reward.

IMO that's a good way of dealing with different groups of players, giving support from solo to party, from casual to hardcore. It's all about player skill and playstyle there.

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Originally Posted by Chardrizard

Let's make an instance that nobody will do because they don't rewards anything. Does anyone do mini ifrit for fun? no, bc it doesnt drops shiny lewtz.

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I don't think you can do mini Ifrit again, you need to have the quest to start entering the instance. You don't need the quest to follow into, but there has to be one out of four people having the quest.

And no, Dragonica used to have real difficult boss fight that you can't change difficulty, like Lavalon. That is until people complain too much and they change everything to easy mode long grind and guess what, THQ Ice dead and NA Dragonica changed hand, Singaporean IAH's one has one dead server out of two and soon there will be one mega server like DCU.

And Vietnamese server which is also IAH's, they used AVATAR to advertise their expansion. James Cameron is RAAAAEGING.

I like this idea. it gives the game that theme park adventure for those looking for fun

Honestly, I think this is a lovely idea - obviously so long as there are distinct benefits and penalties to the various difficulty settings.

Besides, I like experiencing these things just to see them and the bits of story surrounding, and not having to bicker with hardcore raiders when I'm really not all that concerned about my DPS or the equipment I get at the end (although obviously I sometimes pursue gear.. want that Mercenary's Acton >.>)

At the very least, I think we should have a 'Normal', comfortably challenging mode that doesn't require perfect group cohesion and pimped out gear.. and then an extreme mode with appropriate rewards in turn.

Although that said, I do think normal mode ought be the default. Somehow it just feels right that players wanting the easier, less rewarding option ought be consciously selecting it - and same for the more challenging mode and all.

Anyway! Just to say I'm in on this one, like on OP given and all.

If it doesn't affect you and you're not gonna do it, why are you flaming it?

Why are you opposed to something that will be fun and of value for someone else?

Live and let live

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Originally Posted by ninesunz

If it doesn't affect you and you're not gonna do it, why are you flaming it?

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In theory, because dev resources are limited and this would take away from other stuff that might be more important.

In practise, because haters gonna hate. (Also a legitimate in my view desire to not see people walking around with Ifrit weapons unless they've done the difficult fight, which would be solved by multiple loot pools based on chosen difficulty.)

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Originally Posted by Teakwood

In theory, because dev resources are limited and this would take away from other stuff that might be more important.

In practise, because haters gonna hate. (Also a legitimate in my view desire to not see people walking around with Ifrit weapons unless they've done the difficult fight, which would be solved by multiple loot pools based on chosen difficulty.)

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The dev resources point is valid.
The OP pointed out the ez fights shouldn't reward you with phat lootz.
Additionally you could scale it harder than original and get better % for drops?