Do the Scions or Hydealyn really care for the Warrior of Light?

clickbait title is clickbait. But I wanted to do something to prevent this particular debate from derailing every other thread. Plus I'm actually am curious if you think the Scions/Hydealyn (both planet and crystal) see the WoL is nothing more than a weapon to be pointed at their problems and make them dissapear or if you think they truly seem them as a dear friend or family. And if you think they would be willing to make sacrifices for us even if we were nothing more than a mere adventurer

I've always had this problem with the game since I defeated Ifrit (arguably Titan) in that the WoL is very 2 dimensional and that every problem seems to be solved by throwing the WoL at it until it dies. Although...

*spoilers for DRK storyline*

I loved the DRK story for actually challenging this trend and giving some morality to the players actions.

I do think that the scions care about the WoL as they haven't shown any evidence that they don't, but the player character really has no identity for them to even properly interact with these characters, which makes character building difficult.

As for Hydealyn, we are her champion, which naturally means that our purpose is to fight for her, though I think the relationship is a little bit like a mother and a child with the added bonus of destiny, rather than the WoL being treated like a weapon.

I've discussed my feelings on the Scions in another topic, but Hydaelyn is interesting here.

I actually question if, sometimes, She recognizes you as a specific individual at all, or if you simply had the traits that served Her purposes.

You house a part of Hydaelyn's flesh, in a sense, with your formed crystals, and you serve Her will but - what exactly does that make you to Her? If you are a child, you are a favored child. But why were you favored in the first place, especially if you're a brand new character in 2.0?

I believe the answers are relevant to the deeper lore that we haven't quite delved into yet and, because of that, I don't think we can know the exact answer.

I come from a background of table-top roleplaying games, where the narrative is always open-ended. Nothing is fixed; the story doesn't run on rails, and details can be changed on the fly, in response to unexpected but highly innovative player decisions.

The one lesson I took with me from those campaigns is that what you get from a story depends heavily on what you put into it.

It was this approach to roleplaying that led to the long-running campaign that eventually inspired Tracy and Laura Hickman, and Margaret Weis, to flesh out the characters that made up the world of Dragonlance, arguably one of the most well-known and successful worlds based on D&D rules.

In that regard, I don't think it's fair to describe our characters are "two-dimensional", or "Mary Sues", or whatever else you want to call them. To me, the "muteness" of our characters — the way they are presented to us in-game — represents an opportunity for us to fill in the blanks as we see fit. We are limited only by our imagination.


With that prologue out of the way, here's a few direct answers, based on what little we know:

1. Do the Scions care about the WoL, or are they merely making use of him?

I think we've been shown ample evidence that the Scions care. There is Y'shtola's relief, for example, in seeing the WoL safe and sound, after her return from the Lifestream. There's also Alphinaud's flustered guilt, when Estinien pointed out he was asking the WoL to risk his life in a battle that the young elezen himself could not take part in.

There is the sense, no doubt, that the Scions do rely heavily on their champion. Perhaps too heavily. But there's also a sense that they don't do this lightly. Alphinaud, rightly or wrongly, formed the Crystal Braves because he believed that it was one way to lighten the burden on the Scions, and by extension, the WoL. And the Scions put their own lives on the line in Ul'dah, because they implicitly understood that the only thing that mattered was for the WoL to make it out of the trap in one piece.

To me, it's a fair exchange. Some players may choose, of course, to interpret events in a more cynical light, believing instead that the Scions are being selfish or self-serving. That's perfectly fine, because the facts can be subjective. Depending on what each player brings to the story, the "truth" can take on different shapes.


2. What are Hydaelyn's actual intentions for the WoL?

This is the tougher, somewhat more philosophical question. One might as well ask what God intends for humanity.

Certain things seem clear enough: the WoL is meant to be the light that shines in the darkness, a bulwark against the forces that seek to subvert and destroy the enlightened races.

But that answers only the "what". It tells us nothing about the "why". And the truth is, no one among the enlightened races knows the reason behind Hydaelyn's mysterious gifts. The Ascians appear to know, but they're not sharing (at least, not yet, and not with everyone).

So basically, your guess is as good as mine. Some players find this frustrating. I, on the other hand, find it entirely plausible.

Because, after all, what mere mortal can claim to know the mind of God?

In the absence of certainly, faith is required. Our characters don't know what Hydaelyn intends. They aren't even completely sure if the Twelve exist. But they choose to believe in them, because everything they've seen so far suggests that they represent the greater good.

But faith also includes doubt. It means you choose to carry on believing, even when there is no conclusive evidence to support your beliefs.


3. So, what does any of this mean for our characters, the Warriors of Light?

This is where I return to my original advice: You're limited only by your imagination.

What's your character's backstory? Based on that, what are the plausible reasons for his or her decisions to go along with the Scions' plans? What are the doubts that he or she are dealing with? How is that expressed through your gameplay?

These are the questions that guide how I approach the game. Naturally, I'm not at all claiming that this is the only way to play. It's merely how I choose to immerse myself in a fictional universe. And the more I put into it, the more I get back.

But there's something more. The game universe itself needs to provide sufficient material that resonates with me on some level in order to make this process work. I've spent the past month playing Fallout 4, which is a fabulous game in its own right, rich with its own lore.

I was swept along for a long while, until it suddenly struck me one day that I don't care any more what happened within that game world. The wide-open nature of Fallout 4 also meant that it was a struggle to maintain a consistent theme the deeper I progressed into its story. And, in the end, I gave up. The story was going in so many inconsistent directions that I simply didn't care any more how it'd end.

And so I find myself back in FFXIV. It'll take some practice before I'm up to speed again with my rotations. But on a larger, meta level, it's like I never left. :)

Because the mystery behind Hydaelyn and Zodiark, light and darkness, and balance still resonates with me through my character.

When I started Lyland's journey, it was with a few specific questions in mind: What makes an ideal society? Is it possible to break the cycle of violence, and achieve lasting harmony? Happily enough, FFXIV has been perfectly consistent in this regard, so Lyland's journey continues to run smoothly for me.

From this perspective, the apparent gaps in the story to date aren't gaps at all, but merely questions that await Answers. I'm all ears. :)

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

As for Hydealyn, we are her champion, which naturally means that our purpose is to fight for her, though I think the relationship is a little bit like a mother and a child with the added bonus of destiny, rather than the WoL being treated like a weapon.

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In the final MSQ of 3.0, after we reawaken the blessing of light at Azys Lla, Hydaelyn's actually says "Warrior of Light, My Beloved Son/Daughter".

So to me it seems Hydaelyn not only views us as her chosen Champion but also as a Mother would a child. And considering all of the planet's inhabitents are " Hydaelyn's Children" then we actually serve a Protective Eldest Sibbling role by defending all of the planet's people from threats. (Specifically Primals and Ascians, and by extension Zodoark)

For the Scions, I think they are too in awe of us to realize that we have our limits and throwing us at the wall enough times may break us. You do the impossible enough times the idea of something even slowing you down becomes an alien concept.

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Originally Posted by ChazNatlo

For the Scions, I think they are too in awe of us to realize that we have our limits and throwing us at the wall enough times may break us. You do the impossible enough times the idea of something even slowing you down becomes an alien concept.

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Which is why I think if we get compleatly trounced by the Warriors of Darkness in our 1st real battle that it could serve for a.massive scale character development as it would hammer home that we are not invincible or unstoppable and it could start to make some question that oivious "The WoL's Got This" attitude.

Complicated answer, but in the interest of keeping it short and sweet (and getting to bed) I'll try and be brief.

On the Scions
-Hard to say. The question isn't "Do they care about us?", because they clearly do. I never said otherwise, and if someone thinks I did it's likely an inference made in error. The question is which is more important to the Scions: us as a person, or us as the Warrior of Light? There is a difference... and, going by Minfilia's pre-"sacrifice" dialogue, it's the latter. Very rarely do they ask if we're OK psychologically despite the repeated traumatic fights and incidents we go through (in fact, the "fight" bit is in the job description according to some), and while Minfilia does always greet us warmly and refer to us as her friend, she is still taking advantage of our kindness and generosity to further the Scions' aim (protecting Eorzea). We may be a Scion as well, but we're an individual with thoughts and feelings and desires, not just a tool to be thrown at whatever primal crops up. (Any difference in the Warrior of Light's attitude towards this depending on region can probably be chalked up to the Eastern collectivist societal tendencies vs. Western individualist societal tendencies.)

It's for a good cause, though, so it's OK.

On Hydaelyn
-Hard to say. We've been saved numerous times by Her, and she even says she loves us when we get our Blessing back. That said... well, She is a goddess, and thus might function on values that differ greatly from our own. Again, the question is not "Does Hydaelyn care about us?", but what is more important to Her: our wishes, or the good we can do for the world? Like the Scions, I lean towards the latter.

Is it petty and immature to put the wishes of one before the needs of the many? Undoubtedly. But if you don't acknowledge and accept them, some unsavory things can happen to you on a psychological level.

This is where "Fray" comes from - and, as always, the important thing to remember is that s/he is not dark, evil, mean, jackass, petty, immature, or only a little piece of you. "Fray" is you, and you are "Fray." There's no boundary or border where one ends and the other begins. Once you understand and truly accept that, everything s/he says takes on an entirely new light. But I digress.

That depends, really, since there's a bit of variation within the Scions themselves.

I've written entire essays about this before on this very forum, but Alphinaud definitely cares about us as a person after 3.0. Cilla, I know Alphinaud 'doesn't count' as a Scion to you, but I think that's an unfair double-standard. Same goes for Tataru. To quote Alphinaud:

ALPHINAUD
She may not spend her days slaying primals, but Tataru is no less a Scion than you or me. Full oft has her knack for acquiring information proven vital to our endeavors.

So when you say 'Alphinaud and Tataru care about us so they don't count', whether its your intention or not it comes off to me as 'They don't fit my 'the Scions don't actually care about us' narrative so I'm excluding them.' That's a logical fallacy. I just wanted to get that out of the way for future reference because that's bugged me since you mentioned back in the 'Greystone Bastard' thread.

And...I think that's my contribution for the day, unfortunately. I might have more tomorrow.

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Originally Posted by Morningstar1337

clickbait title is clickbait. But I wanted to do something to prevent this particular debate from derailing every other thread. Plus I'm actually am curious if you think the Scions/Hydealyn (both planet and crystal) see the WoL is nothing more than a weapon to be pointed at their problems and make them dissapear or if you think they truly seem them as a dear friend or family. And if you think they would be willing to make sacrifices for us even if we were nothing more than a mere adventurer

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It would easier to flip the question around to me. Do I care about them? No. Can I do anything about it? No.

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Originally Posted by Cilia

On the Scions
-Hard to say. The question isn't "Do they care about us?", because they clearly do. I never said otherwise, and if someone thinks I did it's likely an inference made in error. The question is which is more important to the Scions: us as a person, or us as the Warrior of Light? There is a difference... and, going by Minfilia's pre-"sacrifice" dialogue, it's the latter. Very rarely do they ask if we're OK psychologically despite the repeated traumatic fights and incidents we go through (in fact, the "fight" bit is in the job description according to some), and while Minfilia does always greet us warmly and refer to us as her friend, she is still taking advantage of our kindness and generosity to further the Scions' aim (protecting Eorzea). We may be a Scion as well, but we're an individual with thoughts and feelings and desires, not just a tool to be thrown at whatever primal crops up. (Any difference in the Warrior of Light's attitude towards this depending on region can probably be chalked up to the Eastern collectivist societal tendencies vs. Western individualist societal tendencies.)

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Given that the Scions have a noted inability to notice if people are pushing themselves too far, I think this would ultimately come down to "If they ask us to go kill another God, would they take no for an answer?"

I mean, not "No" probably. I'd like to think we'd phrase it better, but I'm poor when it comes to social skills.

And yes, regardless of their feelings, they'd take "no" because they have very little recourse BUT to rely on our magnanimity when it comes down to it, the same way for the most part they don't have much choice but to rely on us to do the god slaying. Only other times I've heard of Primals being taken down involved the deaths and tempering of WAVES of people. Even if they do care about us more as a person, they still need to use us as a weapon.

=s WoL being the typical silent good guy. Takes abuse without complaint. Just a thanks and chump change for taking care of world endangering threats.
Hard to NOT make use of :P all things considered.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/IdealHero
And best... can't say no.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ButThouMust

Sums up pretty much...

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Originally Posted by Alisa180

Alphinaud and Tataru. Double standard.

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Let's be honest, though: when someone says "the Scions," are Alphinaud and Tataru really the first people who spring to mind? If you're going to be exacting like that, let's go with "the Archons (and to a lesser extent Minfilia) show little concern for your well-being." Regardless, most of the concern people show for you as a person comes from 3.0, after we suffered a great blow as both individuals and to the organization, and I'm willing to bet the writers took measures to redress the complaint many players had that we were being treated like a tool.

Everyone's a hypocrite with double standards. Calling my argument invalid because of that is an ad hominem attack, which is just as much a logical fallacy as constructing a narrative to fit your purpose. (Which I never intend to do. Consciously, anyway.)

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Originally Posted by ChazNatlo

Even if they do care about us more as a person, they still need to use us as a weapon.

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And that totally made it OK to treat us like one, right?

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Originally Posted by Cilia

And that totally made it OK to treat us like one, right?

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Essentially. It's for the greater good, and in a game like this, the hero will never complain about it.

Personally, I'd love to see a quest where the Scions approach us again and we answer, "No! I'm cold, hungry, and coming down with the Ala Mhigo flu. It's going to wait a couple weeks."

Scions: "But, we need you!"

WoL: "Then make some chicken soup and take care of me a bit!"

Scions: "..."

WoL: (coughing fit)

Scions: "..."

Tartaru: "My mom has a great recipe for chicken soup!"

Minifilia: (smiles) Thank you, Tartaru.

(thinks) We have been pushing you too hard, (adventurer's name).

Y'shtola: I'll get (him/her) to bed. Rest and fluids are the best cure for Ala Mhigo flu.

--- After Y'shtola and the WoL leave the room ---

Papalymo: "I never knew (the adventurer's name) could get sick and worn out."

Yda: "Kinda reassuring, isn't it?"

Papalymo: (nods)

Minifilia: We all have our limits. It's good that we were reminded of that here rather than in battle.

___________________________________________________________________

Just a few scenes showing the Scions comforting us is all it would take to show the Scions care about us as a person and as family.

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Originally Posted by Kacho_Nacho

-snip-

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I like this idea, and it would give some much needed humanity to the WoL besides just being the world's silent, God-given weapon.

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Originally Posted by Cilia

Let's be honest, though: when someone says "the Scions," are Alphinaud and Tataru really the first people who spring to mind?

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Yes. Or at least Alphinaud does. Alongside the Archons and Minfilia. Alphinaud by this point is as much one of the 'main' Scions as Minfilia and the Archons.

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Originally Posted by Cilia

If you're going to be exacting like that, let's go with "the Archons (and to a lesser extent Minfilia) show little concern for your well-being."

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Thank you, that's better.

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Originally Posted by Cilia

Everyone's a hypocrite with double standards. Calling my argument invalid because of that is an ad hominem attack, which is just as much a logical fallacy as constructing a narrative to fit your purpose. (Which I never intend to do. Consciously, anyway.)

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I never said your argument was completely invalid, merely flawed. I'm big on technicalities and such, that's just how I am, unfortunately. I'm appreciative you accepted the criticism, as it makes your argument stronger.

To put a finer point on it, I disagree that the Scions don't care about us, since I include Alphinaud and Tataru as part of the Scions and I can, and have, write an entire essay on how the former has grown to care about us as a person over the course of 3.0.

I do, however, agree to an extent the Archons (and to a lesser extent Minfilia) viewed us more as a tool and a means to an end. Minfilia's comment as she left during "The Parting Glass", for example, was pretty telling.

Thank you again. I will cease this line of argument with you, and hopefully come back later with something more meaningful to contribute to the actual discussion.

To be fair with the Archons, they often show little concern for their own well being. I think if the WoL refused to face a primal they would try their best to convince you and failing that try to think up some way to organise people to take it down anyway. Primals have been slain in the past without our help. Its just very costly in lives.

Yes they care about the WoL, both as an ally and a friend, but at the same time they are all very devoted to a cause and in their minds accept that that cause will probably have a high tole. Since you chose to join them in that cause I think they automatically assume your ready to pay the same price they are willing too.

Yes the WoL is a weapon but the Scions aren't just a group of friends. If you are part of an organisation as a fighter then you are signing up to be a weapon. Its what we choose to be. They didn't force it on us (though you could argue the story did).

Do remember how upset at himself Thancred was when you ended up having to fact Ifrit alone without backup. He blamed himself a lot.

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Originally Posted by Soldowner

Essentially. It's for the greater good, and in a game like this, the hero will never complain about it.

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Major DRK spoilers, but this is the crux of my argument.

Enter "Fray," your Shadow, the you who is tired of it and does complain about it at considerable length. Yes, the DRK Soulstone was the catalyst, but all it did was draw out what was already present. Now, your Shadow doesn't explicitly name the Scions as a source of frustration or resentment, but the Quest Log for DRK 45 explicitly states the Warrior of Light is willing to abandon the Scions, the Alliance, and even forsake Hydaelyn Herself to live a peaceful and quiet life, or pursue their own goals instead of just going along with whatever the Scions want them to.

Naturally, the entire point of the DRK 30-50 line is to force the Warrior of Light to accept his / her Shadow - the part(s) of him/herself s/he doesn't like and averts his/her eyes from. It's waaaay more complicated than just bitterness and resentment, but in the interest of trying to keep this somewhat on topic, I'll leave it there unless someone asks for a more detailed explanation.

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Originally Posted by Alisa180

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No harm no foul. I'm just used to people treating me like I'm an enemy because of my generally contrary stance, so I do tend to get hostile quickly and apologize if I came across that way.

Like I said though, in 2.x most people treat you as a weapon or tool. I'm willing to bet a lot of players complained about that, which is why the writers took measures to redress it in 3.0. Aside from the DRK 30-50 line we have Alphinaud learning beneath the title we're a person, Tataru's concern for us is more apparent, and Haurchefant sacrifices himself to save us just because he didn't want to see us get hurt, not because we're Y'shtola's vaunted "beacon of hope," and it's subtle but his death crushed us and then sent us into a tranquil fury that lasted until Thordan's defeat. ... I think.

Jury's still out on Thancred and Shtola, but we'll see what happens when the Warriors of Darkness trounce us. Cuz I get the feelin' they're gonna.

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Originally Posted by Belhi

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From what I've seen, Thancred is the only one who pushes himself too far. The others seem to be aware of their limitations and know when not to push them.

Yes, the Scions are willing to lay down their lives in Eorzea's defense, but that is supposed to be a last measure. Their goal is supposed to be preventing the summoning of primals in the first place, since while their sustenance does eat up aether just summoning one distorts Hydaelyn's aether flow. Time and again they fail to do so, and after learning we possess the Echo and are thus immune to tempering (and also willing and able to fight, unlike Minfilia), have no qualms about throwing us at primal after primal. During the quest to go fight Tidus... err, Titan, Shtola seems more annoyed that the Company of Heroes won't just cough up their information than concerned with your safety. Sure we have a crisis to prevent, but jumping in unprepared will just get us killed... and fighting a primal is something she's likely not done before or since, so she has no room to be frustrated with the Company for actually being concerned about your well-being, survival, and success. Scary how a group of mercs understand what you're going through / going to go through more than your close friends do.

We didn't sign up to be a weapon. We signed up to be a guardian, which includes things beyond slaying phantom gods, yet that's all the Scions ever seem to call on us for. (Well, that and kicking the Garleans' collective asses whenever they act up.)

Now, I fully acknowledge and understand that sending us is the most practical solution. But... that doesn't take our feelings into account, nor does it address the trauma of going toe-to-toe with said phantom gods and staring death in the face nigh-constantly. We aren't machines, yet everyone just assumes we'll have no complaints going into life-or-death situations time and again against foes they dare not step onto the battlefield against (be it for lack of the Echo or sufficient martial prowess). Even if we're the most practical "weapon" to use, that doesn't justify treating us like one... and doing so will lead to repression and/or an eventual breakdown (see the hideybox above). Neither of those are ideal outcomes.

Never mind the fact everyone wants us to do all their daily chores, from harvesting kupo nuts to getting their cat off the roof.

I do think they care about us. Well, I'm not entirely sure about Hydaelyn as gods in RPGs have always been kind of morally grey.

However, the Scions do feel guilty about constantly sending us into danger all the time that might eventually end with our death. As previously mentioned, part of Alphinaud's character development in Heavensward is seeing us as a person rather than a weapon. I think that scene where Estinien called Alphinaud out on it before fighting Ravana was perfect, as he never really realized until that point that we are still human and we can still die, no matter how much it seems like we cheated death up until that point. He later shows concern for us over the... weird and frankly out there plan to defeat Bismarck.

This is a far cry from how his original character acted. When we first met Alphinaud, I took his line after defeating the last boss in Stone Vigil as "Thank god you didn't die. It spares me the trouble of having to find a new champion to take over." I really like how far his character has come until then, as it made me go from disliking the little brat to actually finding him to be a likable character.

Its hard to judge the other Scions since we've spent less time with them than with Alphinaud so far. If I remember right, Thancred was guilty over us having to fight Ifrit and while we survived, that didn't excuse the fact that he sent us alone on a dangerous mission.

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Originally Posted by ChazNatlo

For the Scions, I think they are too in awe of us to realize that we have our limits and throwing us at the wall enough times may break us.

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Yes and no. They do seem to take for granted that we keep doing the impossible, but several times during the story you're specifically told to take a break and get some rest, usually by Minfilia. It doesn't come through very well, since usually the next quest is right there to accept unless it was done during a patch gap, but it's there...so they at least recognize we have to take it easy from time to time.

The straightforward, solo-orientated game/story design in 2.0 of 'go here, kill this, go back here' incidentally painted you as nothing more than a tool others take advantage of. Alphinaud is a prime example of this. In 2.0 he clearly sees you as a weapon but in 3.0, with the story direction being of you travelling with a party to try to end a war without fighting, it offers more opportunities for character development. Thus characters within the latter environment (e.g Alphinaud) come off as more caring of the WoL as a person, while those within the former (e.g. Minfilia) come off as uncaring.

So in short I'd say the Scions do care about the WoL as a person, but just wasn't explicitly expressed due to poor storytelling and character development. Thancred was a notable exception to the rule though, since I recall him being annoyed at himself for not making it in time to help you with Ifrit.

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Originally Posted by FeliAiko

The straightforward, solo-orientated game/story design in 2.0 of 'go here, kill this, go back here' incidentally painted you as nothing more than a tool others take advantage of. Alphinaud is a prime example of this. In 2.0 he clearly sees you as a weapon but in 3.0, with the story direction being of you travelling with a party to try to end a war without fighting, it offers more opportunities for character development.

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This. The scene in 3.0 where you stop and make camp and rest for the night is the first time we got that sort of cutscene, and it was a good bit of character development. It's the sort of thing that wasn't present in 2.0, and there needs to be more of it.

I'm on the fence about whether the Archons consider you a co-worker or a friend. It'd be nice to see more interpersonal character development though.

Just a quick recount of the Primals we are sent to go kick in the teeth of by Minfillia and the Scions core group. ((Not counting the Hard/EX versions, which surprisingly we can turn down.))

Ifrit: Sent to stop the theft of Crystals, discover kidnapping scheme, fail to stop it, Ifrit summoned and we kill it. Not sent to kill. Thancred feels incredibly guilty about how things turn out.

Titan: Sent to stop Summoning, but with the understanding that we likely won't. Totally still counts. Y'stola would have accompanied us, but couldn't due to needing to create our means of travel.

Garuda: Scions either dead or captured, Sent by Alphinaud. Either counts or doesn't depending on if we count Alphinaud.

Leviathan: Initially an exception, since again we are sent to Stop the Summoning, and would have pulled it of is not for those meddling Ascians and their Echo teaching the Head Shaman to body swap. Except we did have a break between that and the actual Fight. I was going to discount it, but yeah, totally fair. Sent to Kick some Teeth.

Ramuh: Sent to Negotiate, not fight. Ramuh turns it into a fight. We euthanize an old man at Swordpoint. Again, not sent to Kill Ramuh. Sent to Parley.

Shiva: Actually I can't remember the specifics. We assumed they were going to Summon Shiva, Correct? One more to the Teeth Kicking Tally on the same grounds as Titan, Technically sent to STOP the summoning, but we cut it so close we may as well have been sent for Teeth Kicking.

Ravana: Scions Missing presumed dead, Sent by Alphinaud. Again, Alphinaud sent us, so maybe maybe not counts.

Bismark: See Ravana Worth noting that in both these counts, Putting down the Primal was a secondary consideration. Doesn't effect the tally.

Throdan: See Ravana Technically Y'shtola was back with us by now, but We'd already Decided on our course of action before her return.

Ravana part II: Not sent by the Scions. Accompanied the Scions ((and Krile)). I'll count is as half marks, since they accepted the same risks as we did ((more depending on Tempering))

By my count, Of our ten MSQ missions to Kill Primals Either 3.5 or 7.5 depending on if we count Alphinaud sending us to off a God as a Scion initiated mission.

Edit: Yes, this doesn't take into account the times we went up against the Garleans or the Dragons.

I fall on the more cynical marker on whether the Scions see us as friend or coworker, though I do see the difference in Alphinaud's character between his "OM12, you want to use sellswords!?" Version from 2.5 to the current Alphinaud.(I like the current one better.)

I think some of this can be explain by their actions towards us in story, and some of it of our own thoughts on them. Familiarity and relation plays a bit of a role in this. Some people trust the authority figures we deal with fully, others hold a bit of doubt just in case, feeling more at home with those we can "have a beer with.".

I do think a "no godslaying today, godslayer has the cough and chills." episode would be hilarious.

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Originally Posted by Morningstar1337

Plus I'm actually am curious if you think the Scions/Hydealyn (both planet and crystal) see the WoL is nothing more than a weapon to be pointed at their problems and make them dissapear or if you think they truly seem them as a dear friend or family. And if you think they would be willing to make sacrifices for us even if we were nothing more than a mere adventurer

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I see the Scions as a dedicated group who, after discovering that I cannot be tempered by a Primal during the encounter witih Ifrit asked me to take on the task of ensuring Titan did not rise. It took a while (15 levels) to get to the point where Titan was defeated. Immediately thereafter the "hero high" was brought low by events that had me fleeing to safety in the desert.

At this point I had moved from being some new-and-upcoming adventurer, welcomed to be part of the Scions as someone with the Echo (a handy talent) to possible Primal Killer, but with lots of backup (Y'shtola, Urianger, etc) and training necessary.

I am, basically, an adventurer, and do adventurer things. I mean, it's not like I handle tax forms 40 hours a week.

I just ran through the later level 50 quests with Minfilia again, and found cut-scenes where she expresses her feelings of friendship. I've also gained a bit more respect for her as an administrator as well -- and am extremely happy I don't have two dozen quests helping her out with administration of the organization.

Hydaelyn, at least as I interpret my encounters, has chosen me - among all her Children - to represent the Light at this point in time. If some things are to be believed (see the airship ride to Garuda), I've been the Warrior of Light long before my current incarnation.

Being the Champion of the Mother Goddess appeals to me, whether it is her Will, or my own. The fact that whole thing with Midgardsomr and the Blessing of Light does not decrease my effectiveness, leads me to believe that I own the power I have, and can use it as I will. I happen to prefer the Light side of the Fo..... ummmm. yeah. Heh.

As far as kittens, etc. My nature, in game, is to aid others. It's how an adventurer gets paid for, um, adventuring. Some of the work is 'be my messenger', some is 'can you get me something off that shelf', some is 'let's play Scooby Doo without the dog!'. I like to think that an adventurer's reputation is enhanced more by the little things they do when it's not necessarily heroic, than by being Heroic, if you know what I mean.

One of these days, I'm going to have to get through the Dark Knight story-line. So far, I've failed to get through that initial challenge a number of times. It looks like some good times.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cilia

Never mind the fact everyone wants us to do all their daily chores, from harvesting kupo nuts to getting their cat off the roof.

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I posted this in another thread, but its worth re-stating here. The reason we do so many 'odd jobs', as DPZ2 somewhat mentioned, is by the nature of our profession: To paraphrase the sky pirate leader from the Void Ark quest, 'Strip away the glory and the heroics, and I bet you're still an adventurer at heart.'

To quote from a Gridania sidequest:

"I know all about adventurers! You'll do anything for a reward, won't you?"

And another one:

"You there─adventurer! Yes, you will suffice. I have a job I need performed, and I'm willing to pay the going rate."

The first one, the quest giver has you try to make his friend laugh. The second one has you make some inquires on the questgiver's behalf (with a few involved characters making comments about the questgiver roping an adventurer into the task).

Point is, 'odd jobs' and 'sidequests' are part and parcel with being an adventurer. Pre-3.0, its implied Scion work barely takes up most of the WoL's time, if that. Several times, you get indications of time passing between quests.

So, what does the WoL do when the Scions don't have a job for them? Well, they naturally fall back on typical adventurer work. Sidequests, dungeon delving, crafting, gathering, ventures, guildhests, the list goes and on. They have to earn gil somehow, after all.

Incidentally, you should look at the Anima weapon quest. During the cutscene, the WoL gets 'volunteered' to help with the weapon by Rowena. The WoL steps back and shakes their head in a 'Oh, no, leave me out of this!' sort of way. Rowena then adds (paraphrasing), 'Oh come on, you can't say the weapon doesn't interest you.' The WoL then does the 'thinking/considering' emote, almost as if saying 'Well, you have a point...' The whole sequence is hilarious, and the WoL is implied to go along with it for the same reason us players do the quest: To get a powerful weapon.

And while the WoL is slowly becoming more of a distinct character, a lot of the reasons for 'why' they do something can often be interpreted through the lens of the why the player is doing it. They are an audience surrogate first and foremost after all. The Anima weapon is one example. Sidequests are another. (Experience, money, or just wanting to help out/see how something plays out *coughhildibrandcough*)