Racial stats suggestion

One thing that has been bugging me about the game is racial stats. You see I play main Paladin and sometimes monk. Now the Xaela tribe has 6 more str and 3 more vit then Raen. Basically I am at a disadvantage because i am losing out on those 6 str which is the equivalent of having a un-upgraded piece of gear that you can't upgrade. Like I have a 200 ring that I can never get to 210.

The reason I play Raen is because I like the way they look, I like the white scales much more then the blue/black ones. However playing this race/tribe combo puts me at a disadvantage that I can never over come. Xaela will always have a higher max dps over me on tanks and melee dps jobs.

What I would suggest is tie the starting stats to something that doesn't effect how you look like guardian. For example Halon could give you the best str/vit combo. If starting stats were tied to guardian then you could look however you want without being at a disadvantage.

Racial stats don't make that much of a difference. Play the race and the classes you want to play. Do what you enjoy. I don't play Lala because they have more INT for my BLM, I play Lala because I like the race.

If you're truly value those 6 str SO much.. then switch. One is clearly more important to you than the other.

Frankly I don't think RPers are going to want to switch their guardians because of the stat ties either.

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Originally Posted by Youkulm

Racial stats don't make that much of a difference. Play the race and the classes you want to play. Do what you enjoy. I don't play Lala because they have more INT for my BLM, I play Lala because I like the race.

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They do make a lot of difference when there are very high dps checks in savage that SE seemed to put a lot of this expansion. Like my analogy would you like to go into savage having a 200 ring that you could never get to 210? I wouldn't care so much if this expansion wasn't so focused on dps checks but missing out on something like 6 str is huge when you aren't making or barely making dps checks.

How much difference would it really make, like 1-2% DPS at most?

Having said that though, I didn't like racials in WoW and I don't like them here. They're pointless and limits freedom if you're one of the really hardcore people.

Racial stats are so small in variance as to be completely inconsequential. If it REALLY bothers you for the absolute min/max potential then switch, but if the race itself is more important to you then don't worry about it. It really, seriously isn't going to affect your gameplay that much. You talk about being "at a disadvantage", but if a Dunesfolk Lalafell tank can do just as well as a Sea Wolf Roegadyn tank in practice and ease of content (and they can), then it clearly doesn't matter all that much.

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Originally Posted by Zumi

They do make a lot of difference when there are very high dps checks in savage that SE seemed to put a lot of this expansion. Like my analogy would you like to go into savage having a 200 ring that you could never get to 210? I wouldn't care so much if this expansion wasn't so focused on dps checks but missing out on something like 6 str is huge when you aren't making or barely making dps checks.

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If you think that little is going to make a difference in Savage then you have other issues in your static than your groups chosen races. If you can't make a DPS check because of 6 str then you need to work on your rotation as a DPS.

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Originally Posted by Youkulm

If you think that little is going to make a difference in Savage then you have other issues in your static than your groups chosen races. If you can't make a DPS check because of 6 str then you need to work on your rotation as a DPS.

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It is something that is unoptimized that can be optimized at the cost of looking how you don't want to look and it just bugs me greatly. Which is why I suggested stats should be tied to something that doesn't effect looks and guardian is the perfect thing because nobody sees it and its only on your profile in your character screen.

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Originally Posted by RyuRoots

Racial stats are so small in variance as to be completely inconsequential. If it REALLY bothers you for the absolute min/max potential then switch, but if the race itself is more important to you then don't worry about it. It really, seriously isn't going to affect your gameplay that much. You talk about being "at a disadvantage", but if a Dunesfolk Lalafell tank can do just as well as a Sea Wolf Roegadyn tank in practice and ease of content (and they can), then it clearly doesn't matter all that much.

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I don't really get how you can say its inconsequential because if you ask any dps they would love to have 6 more of their primary stat for free. Even if its something that equates to like a .5 or a 1% increase in efficiency that is still a increase. I find it extremely frustrating I can never hit the dps ceiling because another race has a 6 stat advantage over me unless I switch to the optimal race.

I still think SE should get rid of the attribute points system and just add +35 to all stats. More HP and more damage to your non main stat and more of everything, isn't going to break anything.

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Originally Posted by Zumi

They do make a lot of difference when there are very high dps checks in savage that SE seemed to put a lot of this expansion. Like my analogy would you like to go into savage having a 200 ring that you could never get to 210? I wouldn't care so much if this expansion wasn't so focused on dps checks but missing out on something like 6 str is huge when you aren't making or barely making dps checks.

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You'll do far more for your DPS by optimizing your gear (and ditching your Fending jewelry) than anything.

I see plenty of Xaela casters out there, who are at a disadvantage to their Raen counterparts. If it means that much to you, then change. Personally, I picked Raen because I like the way that it looks and the small amount of strength is pretty inconsequential.

At least the stat difference isn't as extreme as ffxi, galka whm dat mp pool was hilarious.

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

You'll do far more for your DPS by optimizing your gear (and ditching your Fending jewelry) than anything.

I see plenty of Xaela casters out there, who are at a disadvantage to their Raen counterparts. If it means that much to you, then change. Personally, I picked Raen because I like the way that it looks and the small amount of strength is pretty inconsequential.

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It's always been the case you will do better then someone who is less skilled or doesn't optimize gear, but assuming if you have 2 players who are at the same skill level have same bis gear but one is Raen and one is Xaela. Then the Xaela will be slightly better on melee dps and tanks.

I don't think I would want to pick Xaela because I just like the way Raen looks so much better.

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Originally Posted by Stupiduglytaru

At least the stat difference isn't as extreme as ffxi, galka whm dat mp pool was hilarious.

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In one of the updates in the Seekers expansion SE actually went back and made racial stat differences less extreme, so no more low galka mp pool or taru low hp. They finally thought the imbalance in that game was worth changing but it was 14 years later.

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Originally Posted by Zumi

It's always been the case you will do better then someone who is less skilled or doesn't optimize gear, but assuming if you have 2 players who are at the same skill level have same bis gear but one is Raen and one is Xaela. Then the Xaela will be slightly better on melee dps and tanks.

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The Raen will be slightly better as a caster/healer. Either way, the difference is so small that a few errant crits one way or the other could easily make up for it. Otherwise you wouldn't see so many Highlanders and Sea Wolves running around as half-naked casters. xD

True min/maxers can min/max a little, but they aren't getting all that much out of it. I prefer to have a character I like looking at.

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I don't think I would want to pick Xaela because I just like the way Raen looks so much better.

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Me either. I have a serious dislike for the black sclera they gave male Xaela. :|

Did you know because Keepers have lower STR I couldn't get the bonus on LVL 45-50 gathering nodes naturally before the expansion?
(You know the ones that grant extra hits)

You know what I did about it? Not change my clan, because Keeper master clan. I just switched out an acc if I remembered when I got to that node.
Those six stat points are soooo little, if you enjoy Raen > Xaela then you should just stick to Raen. I mean if it really truly bugs you then just change.

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Originally Posted by Zumi

They do make a lot of difference when there are very high dps checks in savage that SE seemed to put a lot of this expansion. Like my analogy would you like to go into savage having a 200 ring that you could never get to 210? I wouldn't care so much if this expansion wasn't so focused on dps checks but missing out on something like 6 str is huge when you aren't making or barely making dps checks.

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While technically they do make a difference it's so small that other factors would come into play like you playing. Not one can play perfectly and that is more likely to have a greater effect on your performance, not 6 strength.

"Boy, I sure could have survived that Tank buster if I only had chosen a race that gave me 6 more points in Vitality." -No tank ever

But for real though, I actually fantasiad myself into a Highlander for one of the reasons being that it had more strength. And guess what? My numbers did jack all. The bonus stat isn't even a 1% difference, it's more like a 0.001% difference, it's that minuscule.

If your geared enough for savage, then the best you can do is change/improve your rotation, put on some STR accessories if your a Tank. Use food and potions when needed, etc.
But if you really REALLY want to change, then go for it. In fact, go Hyur Highlander, cause that race has the same STR as Xeala, but an extra point in Vitality. If your a tank your gonna need that one extra point.

6 str is about a fraction of a percent for a damage increase. Not even a 1% increase (11-12 str is around a 1% increase in the current gear)


If that makes or breaks your dps checks you should take a look at all the things you or your party members must be doing wrong.

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Originally Posted by Zumi

It is something that is unoptimized that can be optimized

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As every other person in this thread has pointed out, the minuscule stat differences aren't going to affect anything. Picking a race because it's "optimized" to your role is incredibly pointless due to how small the stat boosts are. Not to mention that optimizing your character for one role in this manner means that you will be "unoptimized" as you put it for every other role in the game. There is no point in complaining that the stats are different for each race, because at this point they're little more than flavor text. The only time you'll be at an advantage or disadvantage because of it is possibly in the earliest levels where your stats are still in the double digits. If it REALLY bothers you that you don't get that extra 1-2 points of damage in every thirty seconds or so, (which is still random because all attack numbers have a varying range to them to begin with), then you can always fantasia constantly whenever you want to play a different class. I'm sure whoever is directly in charge of the Mogstation would be happy with that.....

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Originally Posted by Zumi

Which is why I suggested stats should be tied to something that doesn't effect looks and guardian is the perfect thing because nobody sees it and its only on your profile in your character screen.

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Nah, we already have guardian to affect our near pointless elemental resistances. Besides, as far as I know you can't change your guardian period, which means that you'll be having to roll alts to "optimize" your stats for whatever class you want to play. The entire point of the way the game is set up seems to be so you DON'T have to roll alts, seeing as how we can watch any cutscene from any inn room, (baring text bubbles from non-cutscene NPC interactions), and can play as ANY class on the same character with levels being independent and stat allotment being tied to the class itself rather than your character as a whole. The ONLY way they could tie these, (again almost entirely unimportant), stat differences to the guardian would be if you could change it at a whim outside of combat, which would be either pointless or annoying.....

It seems to me though that you're not complaining that you don't have these stats, or that they could make you preform better. You're complaining that in theory someone could preform slightly better than you in the one in a trillion situation that you two would be preforming the exact same otherwise, which is frankly a bit petty that you can't live with the idea of someone doing slightly better than you. The solution to this isn't to change where these slight stat changes come from, but to remove them entirely and just give a flat boost across all the stats based on the average. Again though, this likely won't happen because as small as the stats are, they're almost entirely flavor text, and I'd rather them not even take the time to worry with that change since it really doesn't matter....

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Originally Posted by Gamer3427

Good points

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Just a small fix but you can indeed, in fact, change the deity you follow.

As AskaRay pointed out the nodes. Im pretty sure the stat differences are there for gatheres. Certain races can get the bonuses on nodes to other races. Its so insignificant that it wont make much difference in combat, its just there for gathering.

Here's why it doesn't matter:

Assuming full 210 raid gear (with a 210 esoterics ring)--because I'm too lazy to do crafted on the numbers, here's your stats with all points into str (and slaying accessories) because DPS meta obviously, as a paladin (OP's main class according to the forum tags):


1030str 595crt 457det 561ss 833vit 553parry Xaela
1024str 595crt 457det 561ss 830vit 553parry Raen

And, of course, weapon damage between the two will be equal at 76 (again, assuming 210 raid gear).


Now, lets look at stat weights:

STR: 1.000
WD: 9.607
DET: 0.132
CRT: 0.152
Sw/Oath SS: 0.091
Sh/Oath SS: 0.104


Now, let us do some maths:

Str stays the same as it's the baseline.

Weapon damage is equivalent to: 730.1 str.
Det is equivalent to: 60.3 str
Crit is equivalent to: 90.4 str.
SS is equivalent to (in sword oath 'cause we're looking at DPS differences): 51 str.

So let's add all that up: 931.8 equivalent str from secondary stats and weapon damage.

Now let's add that to our original str values:

1961.8 Str equivalent for Xaela
1955.8 Str equivalent for Raen (obviously, as it's a 6 point difference).

So, what percentage of your DPS is that then?

Raen switching races to Xaela would see a 0.3% increase in their DPS. Or vice versa with a 0.3% decrease.

Lets break that down even further: The current highest DPS on (a site that collects log data that I won't list here because bluh bluh parsing) vs Faust for Paladin is 1,377. A change of 0.3% there is 4 dps. If that paladin had 6 less str their DPS would have been 1,373, still about 40 DPS higher than second place. Even competing at the very top DPS on Faust, with DPS classes, a 0.3% decrease in their DPS wouldn't be enough to change their rankings.

Literally any fraction of a second mistake in battle will make infinitely more difference than 6 str. Racial stats matter such an infinitesimally small amount that they aren't even worth considering.

As for HP, the difference is: 16445 for Xaela, and 16383 for Raen. Or a difference of 62HP at level 60. So, you know. Basically nothing.

I'm pretty sure the only race/job combo that actually had racial stats that mattered was Dunesfolk for lv50 BLM; with SCH they could get an extra fire cast out under Astral Fire, I believe (I'm not a BLM, so this is secondhand info for me. Had a friend who was considering changing to boost his DPS and talked to me about it)

At 60 though...no, the racial stats don't matter at all in combat. There may be a node or two that is race-blocked, but IDK if there are.

Maybe it's because I'm a dirty casual, but I can't ever imagine giving up playing the race I love in order to gain a miniscule advantage in whatever class I'm playing.

Even in FFXI, I loved playing a Galka so much that I purposely gimped myself as a caster in order to play a Galka caster. They also looked quite good in a lot of caster gear, but that's another story.

If it really bothers you, well... there's always the option of using a Fantasia. As others have stated though, that stat gain isn't going to make or break an encounter.

Any and all racial stat differences will be GREATLY overshadowed by simple crit variance during the encounter, even if you play absolutely perfectly everytime.

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Originally Posted by Krylo

Here's why it doesn't matter: snip

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http://lacienciaalteumon.cat/wp-cont...14/01/yeah.jpg

In addition to the topic at large, if you are TRUE min-maxxer, you would have chosen the race to fit the job. Simple as that. To a true min-maxxer, race pick is ultimately inconsequential. If you are adamant about remaining a certain race, no matter how you justify it, you're not a true, die-hard min-maxxer.

That being the case, as pretty much everyone has already covered, it's not going to matter AT ALL. No party in this game is going to kick you from an endgame raid due to your racial pick. You'd have a better chance of being kicked from a party for being a lalafell and them using the excuse, "you were harder to see running around." Seriously, in the list of things that ACTUALLY matter in this game, racial stat bonuses are probably close to the last thing, right next to grass texture and missing butts.

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Originally Posted by Velox

right next to grass texture and missing butts.

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I'm sure that approximately 99% of players would argue that these two are vastly more important than the race stat bonuses.....

Minmaxers are so weird sometimes.

I don't even remember my racial stats for my two main characters because whatever bonuses they got/didn't get from them make jack all difference in my numbers.

The racial stats were a FFXIV 1.0 thing that was carried over from FFXI because that is how the characters were configured there. It was originally intended to make a noticeable difference but they eventually did away with it. SE did say at one time that the differences between the races were actually miniscule at most and did not impact one race's performance as a certain job over another's.