Allow use of all learned skills (at lower efficiency) if level synched...

When can we get the above?

While levelling, it would be really useful if we could actually use our latest skills even if we end up in a lower dungeons, so we can actually learn to use them fully.

Why do you think we dont have them. To annoy you?

To have the capped skills would break tuning at that level and defeat the purpose of syncing partially.

I find it boring too.

Probably would make some dungeons really, really easy to blitz through due to Tanks with all their defensive cooldowns mass pulling everything and get them nuked with BLM Flare combos.

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Originally Posted by Saccharin

Why do you think we dont have them. To annoy you?

To have the capped skills would break tuning at that level and defeat the purpose of syncing partially.

I find it boring too.

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The purpose of lower efficiency of those skills is to not have them break tuning.
The point is just that the lack of the skills means you don't learn your job as well as you should during levelling.

You do have time to learn how to use your newest skills by using them in the highest level dungeon you can currently Queue into. There's a reason why most of the dungeons are separated multiple levels apart. So you have time to practice new skills/rotations as you level up.

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Originally Posted by seraf

You do have time to learn how to use your newest skills by using them in the highest level dungeon you can currently Queue into. There's a reason why most of the dungeons are separated multiple levels apart. So you have time to practice new skills/rotations as you level up.

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Yes, but that's valid only if you actually queue for the highest available dungeon for the job you're on.
If you are using roulette, you can end up with Sastasha normal. And many people I think don't do anything outside of roulettes.

I don't think that this would be balanced at all. Many skills you get later in the game let you do things not intended at the level you sync to. Simply detuning the skill would not resolve that issue. If a lvl 60 player were running Sastasha sync'd with unsync'd level appropriate players, their enhanced skill selection would be wholly unbalanced compared to players at the appropriate level.

As someone who recently made a new character and is doing Gladiator as its main, let me tell you: Higher level characters, even synced down, can rip hate off HARD from my character, just with their current synced skills. More so if its a White Mage spamming Medica for some reason. If I had more green equipment rather then white equipment it would probably be easier but that depends on drops, which haven't been in my favor.

The leveling roulette to give you a reward for helping newbies (usually, as sometmies you don't get newbies.) And it isn't fun for newbies if you and all your skills from later on just break the dungeons. Scholar fairies already show how broken lower level dungeons can become if we let ourselves use all our skills from later on.

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Originally Posted by Dualblade

The leveling roulette to give you a reward for helping newbies (usually, as sometmies you don't get newbies.) And it isn't fun for newbies if you and all your skills from later on just break the dungeons. Scholar fairies already show how broken lower level dungeons can become if we let ourselves use all our skills from later on.

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SCH fairies was going to be my example as well. A SCH in any dungeon prior to Haukke Manor is more or less able to DPS full time and let Eos take care of everything. She's as good as an at-level new healer, and doesn't suffer from server lag like a real person.

If SE adjusted it so that the abilities could be used when synced down, they'd have to be nerfed down so hard that they'd be useless and you'd be better off sticking with the non-synced rotation anyway.

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Originally Posted by Catwho

SCH fairies was going to be my example as well. A SCH in any dungeon prior to Haukke Manor is more or less able to DPS full time and let Eos take care of everything. She's as good as an at-level new healer, and doesn't suffer from server lag like a real person.

If SE adjusted it so that the abilities could be used when synced down, they'd have to be nerfed down so hard that they'd be useless and you'd be better off sticking with the non-synced rotation anyway.

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Do not forget that they get Leeches only at level 40, which makes some dungeon quite hard to heal through (like the Worm Boss on Cutter's and that Sludge DoT), making Eos a crutch until then

That's too much work TC. As it is, when sync'd down, we still deal lots of dmg for that level. Allowing the use of all our skills not only breaks the balance even further, but new players will face those speed runners and be subject to harassment. Me and many others just deal with it for those 30-45 mins.

How about just have a option where people before the dungeon can start have a majority vote for it to happen or a queue option?

Really there are people who don't read their skills or don't know how to play their classes because the dungeons don't encourage you to do anything really so why not make lower leveling less boring.

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Originally Posted by Gaiussenpai

How about just have a option where people before the dungeon can start have a majority vote for it to happen or a queue option?

Really there are people who don't read their skills or don't know how to play their classes because the dungeons don't encourage you to do anything really so why not make lower leveling less boring.

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Why not just run it unsync'd?

The issue seems to be that the player here wants the advantages of running unsync'd but the reward from running it as a roulette. If you want all your skills, run unsync'd otherwise take the medicine like everyone else and accept your roulette bonus.

As has been previously posted, this would be decidedly unfair to players playing through these dungeons for the first time. Keeping long rotations would mean insanely high DPS in lower level dungeons, even if you lowered potencies. All potencies would have to be researched and customized for different level sync's if you wanted to keep DPS at a fair volume. Can you imagine being a level 30 PLD in haukke manor with only Sword Oath, and having a ninja unload a toploaded dps combo on a boss? It wouldn't matter how good you were, you'd be at a huge disadvantage.

The only way to fix it would would be to blow out the potencies to an obscenely low level and that would require alot of research that would be better focused on making better endgame content.

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Originally Posted by Nekodar

The purpose of lower efficiency of those skills is to not have them break tuning.
The point is just that the lack of the skills means you don't learn your job as well as you should during levelling.

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If the efficiency get reduced enough that it don't break the content (like not giving a job more effective defensive skills for lower dungeons than a class/job at the right level have), then you can also just ignore those skills.

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Originally Posted by Arrius

Do not forget that they get Leeches only at level 40, which makes some dungeon quite hard to heal through (like the Worm Boss on Cutter's and that Sludge DoT), making Eos a crutch until then

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Not really since Galvanize effects act like a sponge to the DoT damage, hence preventing any trouble with it. That, combined with Eos' AoE regeneration is far from lacking in comparison to the other healers.

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Originally Posted by Arrius

Do not forget that they get Leeches only at level 40, which makes some dungeon quite hard to heal through (like the Worm Boss on Cutter's and that Sludge DoT), making Eos a crutch until then

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Then use your fairy?? Not sure if serious.

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Originally Posted by UBERHAXED

Then use your fairy?? Not sure if serious.

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A lot of Scholars have tunnel vision, forgetting that Selene exists or that she can remove status effects. I know I did when I was first leveling Scholar. You get into a habit of leaning on Eos, and forget that Selene brings other things to the table. Eos let's you double up as DPS which you're kind of used to coming from Arcanist.

[QUOTE=Kosmos992k;3460050]Why not just run it unsync'd?

You know maybe people don't want to be be bored while using the leveling roulette to level since unsync gives no exp at all.

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Originally Posted by Gaiussenpai

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

Why not just run it unsync'd?

You know maybe people don't want to be be bored while using the leveling roulette to level since unsync gives no exp at all.

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And? If you're bored with the game, the answer is not to break the balance of the game.

Quoting what I said in this thread:

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Originally Posted by Inferiae

Because it's a lot easier to sync when you also sync the skills. Here's an example:


Imagine two BRDs, one level 60 and one level 50, in Sastasha. Let's sync them down to level 18, but not sync the skills.

The level 60 has access to traited DoTs, two DoTs, Empyreal Arrow, Sidewinder, Wanderer's Minuet, all his cooldowns. Even after being synced down to level 18 attributes, there'd be need to adjust every single skill potency to meet the standards for Sastasha.
Level 50 doesn't have EA or WM, but has access to all his cooldowns too, and traited DoTs. So, we'd need to lower his potency too, but not the same amount as the level 60 BRD, because it doesn't have the high potency skills the level 60 has, so the rotation is different, and potency per second is different.

Now imagine that for every job and every level in between the dungeon level and 60. It is much more practical to sync the skills too, so every one is in the same standard.

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I'm totally against this idea, by the way.

I find it a shame that they put the new jobs to begin at level 30, if they allow higher level skills on synched content it would be totally unbalanced and unfair, and also take away all the fun of dealing with certain content with less tools.

To be completely honest, I'd want the complete opposite: force minimum ilv. synch on 4-man duties on DF, so we can always experience the dungeos to its fullest.

Not a fan of this idea really for the reasons mentioned previously.

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Originally Posted by Inferiae

Quoting what I said in this thread:

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I swear a new thread about this same, tired topic pops up every 3 months.

I actually think it takes more skill to run synced and your abilities disabled than it would be having all your abilities but just nerfed down. It lets you practice the rotations and work arounds you used while leveling up rather than just discarding them when you reach the next set of skills.

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Originally Posted by Iagainsti

I swear a new thread about this same, tired topic pops up every 3 months.

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That's the forums for you. For the most part it's the same 10 or so threads being repeated over the course of a month or so, (with certain ones repeating weekly). The only thing that changes is that some of the threads switch from complaining about now-old content to complaining about the new content......

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

A lot of Scholars have tunnel vision, forgetting that Selene exists or that she can remove status effects. I know I did when I was first leveling Scholar. You get into a habit of leaning on Eos, and forget that Selene brings other things to the table. Eos let's you double up as DPS which you're kind of used to coming from Arcanist.

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Yeah I'm a SCH main and I never touch Eos unless I'm in an 8-man with another SCH using Selene. I never really find much need for Eos' extra healing and I still have a ton of time to DPS when playing fine. I think a lot of SCH just see that Eos has a lot of healing power (even if unneccessary for a good Sch in most situations) and dont even think about what Selene can do

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Originally Posted by UBERHAXED

Then use your fairy?? Not sure if serious.

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

A lot of Scholars have tunnel vision, forgetting that Selene exists or that she can remove status effects. I know I did when I was first leveling Scholar. You get into a habit of leaning on Eos, and forget that Selene brings other things to the table. Eos let's you double up as DPS which you're kind of used to coming from Arcanist.

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To be fair, Fey Caress was just put in with 3.0 so people that leveled SCH before that had the issue with Leeches.

Not to mention the cooldown on it.

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Originally Posted by Zari

Yeah I'm a SCH main and I never touch Eos unless I'm in an 8-man with another SCH using Selene. I never really find much need for Eos' extra healing and I still have a ton of time to DPS when playing fine. I think a lot of SCH just see that Eos has a lot of healing power (even if unneccessary for a good Sch in most situations) and dont even think about what Selene can do

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For some reason, to this day I prefer Eos (even though I think Selene is prettier).

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Originally Posted by Fevelle

force minimum ilv. synch on 4-man duties on DF, so we can always experience the dungeos to its fullest.

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That would be soooooooo bad if this was a thing...

Also against this. If someone only levels with roulettes and goes all the way to 60 in Sastasha, that's their choice. Giving them all of the skills still won't force them to actually read the tooltips and try them out at a fraction of their intended potency, and as soon as you make them worth using in the lower syncs you destroy the balance for actual new players i.e. the group of people that roulettes exist to help in the first place. If I was playing my level 60 BLM in levelling roulette for some reason I'd have a choice of using my lower level rotations or the Enochian/Fire IV one. The latter is significantly harder to keep up at my latency level and yet it would have to do similar or identical damage to the old easy rotations or the balance would be ruined. Who would bother, if they couldn't even be bothered to play harder content when levelling to begin with?

The only case I could see it working for is spells which are direct replacements (e.g. some of the direct damage spells) as it's mildly inconvenient to have to use a different button when synced down. This still wouldn't help novices learn their jobs properly, though. I know exactly the kind of player you mean; someone who only uses their core set of spells and probably doesn't have situational (or hard to use) abilities bound at all, but I strongly doubt they're going to be pushed to figure out how to play just because the tools are made available.

Personally I'd rather levelling roulette was less of a go-to thing in the first place. I know people who went all the way to level 60 doing nothing else and there's a brutal learning curve at the end when they join us for harder content.

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

To be fair, Fey Caress was just put in with 3.0 so people that leveled SCH before that had the issue with Leeches.

Not to mention the cooldown on it.

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It hits multiple plyers at one though, doesn't it? Offsetting the cooldown

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

It hits multiple plyers at one though, doesn't it? Offsetting the cooldown

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What difference does that make if the mob keeps applying the debuff? Good examples are the CC worm and the dragon in Brayflox.

I'd hope that you're not gonna just wait till everyone in the party has the debuff ticking to remove it.

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

What difference does that make if the mob keeps applying the debuff? Good examples are the CC worm and the dragon in Brayflox.

I'd hope that you're not gonna just wait till everyone in the party has the debuff ticking to remove it.

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Huh? How do you get to that from what I posted?

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

Huh? How do you get to that from what I posted?

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Because you said that the fact that it's an AoE offsets the cooldown, but the only time that it being an AoE would really factor in would be if more than one person had the debuff. If you only need to cleanse one player and you use it, then the mob debuffs a second player, it leaves you healing through DoTs on them (and possibly a third depending on how often the mob uses the debuff).

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

Because you said that the fact that it's an AoE offsets the cooldown, but the only time that it being an AoE would really factor in would be if more than one person had the debuff. If you only need to cleanse one player and you use it, then the mob debuffs a second player, it leaves you healing through DoTs on them (and possibly a third depending on how often the mob uses the debuff).

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That's a much better way of putting it, and I understood that already, I was only suggesting that the longer cooldown wss probably there to offset the AoE nature if the effect. I wasn' sugestting that you'd use it as a direct replacement for leeches, since it hits multiple players, you'll only use it when mutliple people have the same debuff(s).

Sorry, I may not have been clear, and wasn't looking to argue with you at all. I'm kinda embarassed myself for neglecting to use Selene so often, but I have slowly learned to do better.

I don't know about you guys, but I LOVE in leveling roulette when I have to reset my bars as a healer to make sure that my basic attack spell is actually available. Nothing like taking 5 seconds to swap my suddenly useless stone 3 skill to stone 1 for a single dungeon, or making sure that my Malefic 2 spell isn't keybound as my basic attack since that spell is only available in 4 out of 17 leveling dungeons. How about those random fates you stop to help with, only to realize your keys aren't bound for that level, and you have to fiddle with your ability page to find the appropriate attack?

Oh, and who doesn't love having a warrior TP starved in level 15-27 dungeons because you no longer have access to invigorate (marauder only) yet you also don't have access to the 3-hit combo (level 30 and up) that was designed to conserve your TP?

My favorite? Only having access to one cross class skill in Satasha and Tam-tara as a level 30+ job, while you had access to multiple cross class skills when you were there the first time. I had the most lovely satasha run today with 3 newbies who wouldn't tank or deal damage properly, so I was doing all 3 roles as an astro with only cleric stance. I certainly couldn't have used the protect and swiftcast skills at all.

^ Are you using a controller? Cause I have no problems fitting every spell on my bar as a WHM or AST with the KB/M setup. It's easy to bind everything to an MMO mouse but even without one you can just drag and drop the correct damage spell and heal in a keybound slot in less than 5 seconds as long as you have them all somewhere on the action bar. Not a big issue.

I think people are forgetting the reason behind having leveling roulette in the first place: helping noobs to get story dungeons done. Why can't we queue as a premade? Because then there's a chance that people queuing for specific have to wait longer to be matched with the right roles. Why do our gear and level get synched? So we don't have an unfair advantage over someone who meets the minimum requirements. Why do our abilities get locked? Otherwise we would have access to more utility than low level players and power scaling would be a nightmare to balance.

Things like Medica II, tank stances, Holy, Foe Requiem, Huton, Deathflare and Clemency would be ridiculously overpowered because such abilities are not available to people at low levels. Let's have an example, Deathflare. At level 15, the biggest aoe available to a damage dealer is 50 potency/target. Deathflare is 400. In order to keep things balanced with new players and to not change the level 60 rotation, all spell potencies must be 8 times lower for a max level SMN. Imagine tickling mobs with a 10 potency Ruin or a (total of) 30 potency Bio whilst trying to build up Aetherflow. Not fun. Tank stance could be balanced by increasing damage taken for level synched players, in which case they either have to stay in tank stance and have weaker attacks or stay out of tank stance and take way more damage than a leveling tank. And spells like Medica II can't be balanced at all because aoe heals do not exist at low levels.

As you can see, it's impossible to balance high level and low level abilities without changing how they work (and changing how they work would make this whole request pointless). Leaving the abilities as they are without scaling is not a decent option either because it ruins dungeons for new players and those who enjoy the gradual leveling process on alts. Believe it or not but low level dungeons are not there just to feed veterans easy exp and tomes. They are there to teach people the basics and having the dungeon steamrolled by high level players wouldn't help with that at all. You think players are bad now, trust me they could be a lot worse.

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Originally Posted by Reinha

^ Are you using a controller? Cause I have no problems fitting every spell on my bar as a WHM or AST with the KB/M setup. It's easy to bind everything to an MMO mouse but even without one you can just drag and drop the correct damage spell and heal in a keybound slot in less than 5 seconds as long as you have them all somewhere on the action bar. Not a big issue.

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Unless you insist on trying to force your skills to fit on one hotbar, it's absolutely not an issue on controller, either. Deleting low level spells is just silly, put them on the expanded controls if you want them out the way but accessible.

Even on a pad I've never had any trouble. I just made a clone of my main healing bar on the third hotbar with the weaker abilities which I toggle to when I'm doing a low level FATE or something. It would be a nice QoL fix if they could have spells automatically use a lower rank if you are synced and don't have the higher one available yet but I don't think this minor inconvenience justifies completely reworking the way syncing works and the enormous amount of balancing that would entail. I'd rather they added more high level content and made levelling up more fun than just slapped a band-aid on levelling roulette and encouraged even more people to level to 60 by running Toto-Rak 500 times in a row.

They need a dislike button. Because this idea is dumb.