Marauder questions from a Newby :)

Alright so im lvl 27 MRDR and 15 (forgot the name of it, the pre tank class with sword shield).

Im fairly new at the game, still on the level grind, but i have tanked quite a bit of dungeons (well quite a bit in comparison to my level lol), and my biggest gripe so far is keeping aggro, i feel even if i tell the other DPS to count to 3/5 before initiating so i can get my aggro going, they seem to still take it off me quite easily.

My pull consisists of Tomahawk (if theres 3 i will tomahawk all 3) and when they are close enough i will use overpower while maintaining a fracture on all targets using Tab key.

If its a single target fight i will Tomahawk>Heavy>Maim>Heavy>SkullSunder. Re-apply maim when its at 1/2 secs keep fracture aswell.


Any tips or suggestions are GREATLY appreciated. Are my skill priorities alright?

Also, i will be going DarkKnight when i can if thats important.

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Originally Posted by BeWarned

Alright so im lvl 27 MRDR and 15 (forgot the name of it, the pre tank class with sword shield).

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Gladiator.

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Originally Posted by BeWarned

My biggest gripe so far is keeping aggro, i feel even if i tell the other DPS to count to 3/5 before initiating so i can get my aggro going, they seem to still take it off me quite easily. My pull consisists of Tomahawk (if theres 3 i will tomahawk all 3) and when they are close enough i will use overpower while maintaining a fracture on all targets using Tab key.

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It sounds like you need to minimize the unnecessary moves. For example, Tomahawk is only for initiating a pull. Try Tomahawking one target, then (when the others stack up in front of you) hit all 3 targets with Overpower. Overpower has higher enmity generation than Tomahawk and hits multiple targets at once, so you'll be saving some Tp but increasing your enmity. Be careful with your use of Overpower though. It is a frontal cone, so it is possible to miss a target if they're too spread out. Warriors/Marauders have to be a little more careful with positioning in that regard, so just make sure they're all bunched up before you pop that Overpower.

(Side note: The three tomahawks are overkill because of the way Aggro works in this game. If you target an enemy and let it hover for a second you'll see thin lines that trace from your target to nearby targets. Those lines mean that if you hit any of those 3 targets, the other two will follow. They are joined. No Tomahawk is required to get their initial attention. You do want to follow up with an Overpower right away, because on the two targets you did not hit you only have "sight aggro," meaning anything from a Regen (Whm) to AoE dmg (usually from ranged Dps) can steal aggro from you. So you really want to get that Tomahawk/Overpower starter nailed down)

The second thing would be to pop a second Overpower. At lower levels you don't have the same stats or enmity generation as you will when you have the Warrior soul gem (Defiance will increase your enmity a lot when you get there). It's pretty common to use at least 2 Overpowers before cycling your primary combo, and it gives you more time to work your primary rotation without fear of losing aggro.

Lastly is your primary combo. First order of business for any tank (especially at the lower levels) is to hold aggro. Read your move descriptions. If it says "Additional effect: Grants enmity" it means there is an enmity bonus to that move. Maim increases your dmg ouput, but does not directly effect your enmity on a specific enemy (only indirectly through increased Dmg). So, if you're having trouble holding enmity, consider saving Main until you're sure you have aggro. Rotate your Butcher's Block combo and split the two enmity moves onto different targets so to secure aggro faster. Once you have aggro, then you can start playing with moves like Maim and Fracture (though, honestly, I wouldn't even bother with Fracture on Mob pulls at your level. Let the Dps handle the Dps. You can play with increasing your output when you get stronger).

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Originally Posted by BeWarned

If its a single target fight i will Tomahawk>Heavy>Maim>Heavy>SkullSunder. Re-apply maim when its at 1/2 secs keep fracture aswell.

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Same advice as the first part. At your current level, you are easily outclassed by higher Dps, so focusing on increases in your dmg is not advised until after you have enmity. Try this: Tomahawk > Heavy Swing > Skull Sunder > Butchers Block (when you get it) FIRST. Skull Sunder grants additional enmity, so it will hold aggro on your primary target MUCH better than Maim. A full Butchers Block combo is usually enough, but if you only have Skull Sunder at this point than you might even consider rotating two of this combo before you consider using Maim or Fracture. Once you have enmity, Switch to your Maim combo and follow it up with a Fracture. Roughly speaking, at 2.5s per move you won't need to reapply Maim or Fracture until it's within the last 5-10 seconds of their effect, so keep on your Skull Sunders until then.

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Originally Posted by BeWarned

Also, i will be going DarkKnight when i can if thats important.

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It's not. Dark Knight can take cross class moves from both Gladiator and Marauder, but neither Marauder or Gladiator can take anything from Dark Knight.

Awesome man. TY SOOOOO Much, I did not know that about the targets being joined at initial pull.

And i will try the Single target rotation now, i did feel i was running out of TP a little quickly with over using tomahawks.

EDIT: Should i throw Flash in there with the AOE rotation and even single target rotation?

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Originally Posted by BeWarned

Awesome man. TY SOOOOO Much, I did not know that about the targets being joined at initial pull.

And i will try the Single target rotation now, i did feel i was running out of TP a little quickly with over using tomahawks.

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Anytime. That's what the forums are here for.... I think... Well, I hope.

Oh, and a couple of things to keep in mind: First, not all targets are tethered like that. Some are single pulls and some are multi-pulls. Try to keep your eyes open for which are which cuz it will help you plan your pulls out in the future (you can test this out in the world map as well. Look for a cluster of enemies and target one. Chances are, if it's a group of 3, they'll be tethered. So, you can get an idea of what the tethers look like). Second, Overpower still uses a healthy chunk of Tp, so it's worth while to take Flash as a cross skill when you're still low level. Lastly, don't be afraid to experiment when you start to over-gear content. Warriors have some of the best enmity generation of all the tanks, so you can take a more aggressive stance once you max your character and get better gear.

EDIT: I would keep Flash as a standby move. Strictly speaking, Overpower secures more hate than Flash, but... If you run dry on Tp, or are at risk of running dry on Tp, it's good to have Flash handy as a means of delaying your Tp consumption while keeping aggro. Also, if you accidentally miss a target with Overpower, sometimes it's better to pop a Flash rather than burning extra Tp on an additional Overpower. Keep in mind that Flash does not secure aggro the same way though, so any target you have only hit with Flash should get a good smack with Skull Sunder sometime soon after as well, just to be safe.

Flash is a good filler for when you're out of TP as a MRD/WAR, but you only get like, two or three casts with the much smaller MP pool you have compared to GLA/PLD. You definitely want to learn to be parsimonious with Overpower though, because spamming it hard on every pull will run you dry on TP fast; two per pull is probably fine for most content, but you might need a third if you're in that annoying valley around Cutter's Cry where DPS start picking up momentum and your threat gen hasn't caught up yet.

What I did as a marauder when leveling it up: Spam Overpower until 500 tp then just auto-attack and if it looks like I'll lose the enmity before the dps kills the thing I'll heavy swing > skull sunder.

That is pre 30 lvl when you get defiance and butcher's block. 3 over power and just maim/butchers block combos altered, never lost aggro like that and never ran out of tp.

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Originally Posted by AniCelestine

What I did as a marauder when leveling it up: Spam Overpower until 500 tp then just auto-attack and if it looks like I'll lose the enmity before the dps kills the thing I'll heavy swing > skull sunder.

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Remind me to never queue for a dungeon with AniCelestine as MRD.

Overpower needs to be used once, maybe twice before switching to your single-target combo (though 15-30, when you aren't a WAR yet, it isn't much, but it'll still contribute a lot more to DPS than the 1-2 extra Overpowers you'd get in). If you lose enmity (or start to), switch to that target--if it's multiple targets, Flash or Overpower again.

Enmity is really easy to get and keep on WAR, though I feel like Flash is a lot stronger at low levels (the MP cost is unfortunately prohibitive for MRD).

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Originally Posted by AniCelestine

What I did as a marauder when leveling it up: Spam Overpower until 500 tp then just auto-attack and if it looks like I'll lose the enmity before the dps kills the thing I'll heavy swing > skull sunder.

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OP, do NOT do this. 1) Just autoattacking is a waste of GCDs (global cooldowns, aka the 2.5 seconds it takes to do most moves in this game). 2) This neither keeps enmity well or allows you do damage.

Use Flash as a cross class skill to be that stopgap between Overpower and your actual enmity combo (Heavy Swing > Skull Sunder > Butcher's Block; aka Butcher's Block Combo). Unfortunately, Flash is still on the GCD and MRD/WAR have a smaller MP pool than GLD/PLD.

Also, once you have aggro, I would get Maim up asap. Later on, you have 2 Maim Combos: 1) Heavy Swing > Maim > Storm's Path (aka Storm's Path Combo) ; 2) Heavy Swing > Maim > Storm's Eye (Storm's Eye Combo). In general, you'll want to keep the Storm's Eye debuff (Decreases target's slashing resistance by 10% and HP recovery via healing magic by 20%) up all the time, because it directly increases your damage and (most likely) party damage. However, the Storm's Path debuff (Absorbs 50% of damage dealt as HP and lowers target's damage dealt by 10％) is useful as a form of mitigation only, as it doesn't do enough healing to warrant using all the time. Also, do keep in mind that, as a MRD/WAR, your enmity combo is ALSO your damage combo. It's win-win right there. So, basically, once you hit level 50, it goes (on a single target pull) something like: Butcher's Block Combo (once or twice) > Storm's Eye Combo > Butcher's Block Combo > Repeat the last two. Use your finishers as needed/as available. Once you get past level 50, there's a few more things to consider, but you don't need to worry about that yet.

HI sorry OP not trying to hijack your thread, it won't let me create one for some reason. I'm a new tank as well.
My question is this:

Say there are 3 mobs in front and 2 off to the side. I aggro mobs 1-3 no problem and then 4-5 , but start losing 1-3 due to DPS. Should my primary focus always be, on the next least enmitable mob or should it be on the mob who I already have aggro and is about to die?

I hope that makes sense.


TIA

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Originally Posted by Grizzak

HI sorry OP not trying to hijack your thread, it won't let me create one for some reason. I'm a new tank as well.

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The forum posts and thread creations are restricted by your current level. It's dumb, but your restrictions will lighten up when you get higher in level.

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Originally Posted by Grizzak

My question is this: Say there are 3 mobs in front and 2 off to the side. I aggro mobs 1-3 no problem and then 4-5 , but start losing 1-3 due to DPS. Should my primary focus always be, on the next least enmitable mob or should it be on the mob who I already have aggro and is about to die?

I hope that makes sense.

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If I understand what you're saying. It sounds like you're not securing enough Aggro before you move on to the next set of Mobs.

Keep in mind that Aggro in FFXIV works on a sliding scale. You are in a constant tug-o-war with the Dps for enmity, but you have the advantage because of Bonus Enmity caused by specific moves. So, once you stop hitting the mob you started with, you're gonna start losing aggro. If the Dps outgear you or out-spec you in anyway, you are going to start losing aggro really quickly.

*Side Notes you might find useful:

A good hint for this is learning how to use your enmity meter. When you grab Aggro on a target, look at the party list. Next to the names of each player in your party there will be a number and a small meter. If you have aggro, the number will be "A" and the meter will be full. Everyone else will be numbered according to how much enmity they have on that target in comparison to you (2 through 4 for a light party. 2 through 8 for a full party). The player you really have to keep an eye on is whoever has a "2" next to their name. If their meter is above 50% full, they are at risk of pulling aggro from you if you don't hit that target with an enmity generating move sometime soon.

** Keep in mind as well that each target in the pull (say, mobs 1-3) has their own enmity meter. Meaning those numbers in the party list will change when you change targets. This is important because ranged and AoE Dps are far more likely to pull aggro from you on your "off targets" than your "primary target." For example, say you are tanking mobs 1, 2, and 3, and you are primarily attacking mob 1. If Mob 1 is targeted, you will see the enmity meters for that target only next to the party list. If your group is made up of a Dragoon and a Blm, chances are that the Drg will be number 2 enmity on Mob 1 (more focused dmg). However, chances are also good that the Blm is "number 2" Mobs 2 and 3, because the splash dmg from the Blm's AoE spells will have been slowly gaining them enmity over you, who has only been directly attacking Mob 1.

The solution to this is to rotate targets regularly, hitting each mob with a enmity generating move so to keep aggro on all 3 targets. You could also spam your AoE a few more times, but that's typically a waste of Tp, especially If you've been holding enmity well and only lose it when pausing your attacks to get another mob. It's a fairly common practice for Tanks to swap targets frequently to make sure they are holding equal aggro on all of them.

The short answer to your question is that it is more important to hold aggro on your original 3 targets.

Every target you lose aggro on holds back your team in some way or another. Melee Dps lose their positional bonuses (because they can no longer get behind or to the side of the target that is constantly facing them), and Casters and healers get interrupted by auto attacks or having to dodge AoE's. For Dps casters, this means screwing up their rotations and mp consumption. For Healers, this means not healing which could lead to someone dying if the interruptions are frequent enough or the dmg is high enough.

Holding aggro is your top Priority. If you cannot hold aggro on one mob before moving on to the next, then you should not be pulling the next mob until the first mob is dead.


That being said, multi-stage pulls (pulls of 2 or more sets of mobs) are common in this game and can be managed rather easily. In some cases, it just requires the Dps to be patient. If you see to sets of Mobs ahead of you and run into the first one, hit them with a tomahawk/Flash/Overpower and then keep running to the next mob, some more experienced Dps will catch the hint and will wait to start attacking until you've bunched all the mobs up and popped off another Overpower or two. If the Dps you have with you are not catching the hint, than it may be prudent to ensure aggro before moving on to the next set of mobs. To do this, grab the attention of the first mob with a Tomahawk, hit them all with an overpower (you can even add a flash into this if you are worried about aggro) and then move on to the next set. Get that set's attention with a tomahawk, lead them to you first set, and hit the ENTIRE Group of them with another overpower or Flash. Managing your Tp for something like this might be a little difficult at lower levels, and you will probably need some practice, but holding aggro is your priority. When doing multi-stage pulls extra AoE's are necessary to ensure you don't lose the aggro of the first mob while gaining the attention of the second.

Sorry for the long response. I get carried away explaining things. Hope this info helps, though. Keep practicing.

It usually comes down to using your judgment. Most of the time if you lose hate on something, you want to focus on getting it back. However, if it's very low on HP and it's not going to immediately kill the person it's targeting, you can probably let it go. Since you're a Marauder, if you're hitting 3+ monsters your best bet damage and enmity-wise will usually be to Overpower. You'll want to get the Maim buff up after establishing initial hate (one Overpower should do it, just make sure it hits everything). MRD/WAR is really strong in dungeons, so you don't have to overthink it too much.

Also remember that if monsters A and B are about to die, your DPS jobs probably aren't building that much enmity on monsters C, D, and E, so you can probably ignore them for a couple seconds once you've gotten an overpower or two on them. Healing hate is divided up among everything you're fighting, so if a heal would generate 1000 enmity, but you're fighting 5 monsters, it puts 200 on each of them.

Thanks for the replies. Puts things into perspective! :)