"Exploration" isn't Exploration.

Hello all,

Before I start I'd just like to say this is my personal opinion. All comments are welcome but please refrain from the whole 'if you don't like it, don't play it' comments as I am giving feedback on an aspect of the game I think can be improved. This also isn't complaining about the changes to Diadem but the instance itself.

I was looking forward to exploration missions very much, but after my first 2 or 3 runs of Diadem I got bored very quickly. I didn't realise it would be a very repetitive instance that entails doing the same thing over and over, even after the update disallowing people to zerg mobs.

The objectives are repetitive. 'Kill x number of mobs, discover x number of chests, harvest x number of items" etc ect. The reward is exactly the same. Completing the objectives is ridiculously easy and people only usually complete them in the last 10 minutes of the run for the extra esos.

The mobs are all exactly the same and in the same areas. The only randomness is the spawns. We named a place 'Dino Island', for crying out loud. How is this exploring? We discover the map once and then we already know the zones and which mobs are where.

I could go on a long time but I'm ultimately asking for a little more randomness, a little more fun and some actual 'exploration'. Having a large map does not make a place any more fun to explore once you've done it the first time. Place mobs in different areas. Change spawns depending on weather. Randomize everything! I just want a little more variety for something with 'exploration mission' stamped on it.

Thank you for reading.

Most the player base don't know what they want from diadem, when diadem was released there were people "omg diadem ruined the game" and then SE came along and made some adjustments and there were people "omg SE screwed over the players" the objectives do need to be higher like for fishing catch 8 fish? That takes like 2 minutes and it done should be more like catch 50 fish or gather 100 items (for gathering objectives) but I guess it don't really matter cause most would not do it anyways and just continue to zerg mobs.

I agree with you, I think there should be more exploration.
Can't fix the playerbase hivemind of "efficiency", unfortunately...

What I feel something amiss is the cave. It should be more thrilling or having rare gathering than on outside but... It only just same with outside but you can't fly :(

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Originally Posted by WinterLuna

...with 'exploration mission' stamped on it...

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It reminds me the really big RAID stamp...^^;

Make it so that every Isle, cave and so on has a set amount of Mobs and NMs.
And magically, everyone would explore Diadem and not just camp one isle!

As long as it not randomly generated to some point, only really exploration can be just a first few runs. Randomizing mobs and mob spawn location may add to it, but perhaps it will only made it more tedious. You will be walking same place all the time anyway.

I wish there be some randomized dungeons there paths available will be decided at instance creation (enter by party) so people won't be able to just stick to one route, no matter how hard they want to. And also bosses will also be all randomly picked, doesn't matter the location it at. Maybe like few randomly picked candidates for 1st, 2nd and 3d boss? And the people will suffer, oh they will SUFFER! Kukuku hahahaha MWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

I would like something like.....



- > No mounts allowed.
- > Chests randomly placed everywhere. They have to be taken (by one party member) and moved back to the inital area. Party member with the chest can't use any skill and can't run, only walk.
- >There are monster, patrolls and traps also randomly placed! Traps are nothing insta-death and unavoidable. They are things like... visible traps, like tipical bear traps, fall-traps. Also, there is dungeons (nothing very complicated. Procedural generated dungeons. Placed estructures, dungeons and laberinths.
- > You can't regenerate (resucitate at the starting area pressing OK after diying). You die, you die. Other people can raise you, but if they don't, you are death and out of the instance.
- > We are given ilvl 180-210 items in the chests plus points. (Just forget about the ilvl 150 things. Why put more trash in the inventory if we are just going to trade them right away?)
-> We an only get one item ilvl 210/ week
-> We get the esoretic reward for getting a reasonable ammount of chests. (I don't know how manny, it would depend of the time required. I think that a good number for designe the content would be 2, thinking in about 1 chest per 20/30 minutes.


I don't like gathering, so of course I don't know what could be added to appeal them. But it should probably be something complementary or independent, not necesary.

I agree with Elvin except for the death stuff, the punishment to start over is enough no need to throw the guy out of game for 2h just because he happened to die for whatever the reason.. There are extremes and middle ways..death is death is too of an extreme....for the rest I agree...make it so that there are also solo instance available, this has been asked forever...with unique drops....yet not that easy to get, of course there has to be adjustments for example, one other game had that that if you were a healer you could have a tank along and if you were a dps/tank you had a healer along with you, that way it can be challenging, Inside that instance maybe as well some gathering stuff....well whatever and anything other then what is today a zerg fest and no enjoyment whatsoever.

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Originally Posted by Eul

What I feel something amiss is the cave. It should be more thrilling or having rare gathering than on outside but... It only just same with outside but you can't fly :(

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I agree with this too. I got really excited when someone told me about the caves and it wasn't anything special. Also thanks for the feedback guys, much appreciated!

I agree the caves should have some meaning. However considering this is the first installment of diadem, I am guessing they will have future objectives and rare loot items as well as relic things related to future Diadem additions.

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Originally Posted by Derio

I agree the caves should have some meaning. However considering this is the first installment of diadem, I am guessing they will have future objectives and rare loot items as well as relic things related to future Diadem additions.

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I see what you're saying, but then those new installments will have a shelf life too. We need some randomness to the whole thing. If they merely added new areas or more mobs, those would be enjoyable for the one time they were being discovered and then it's back to the grind.

the Diadem: a Grindfest of Extraordinary Proportions!!!

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Originally Posted by duceTRE

the Diadem: a Grindfest of Extraordinary Proportions!!!

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Unfortunately the truth.

best moment of Diadem.. when you flew in on that ship and heard that music for the first time..
I was ready to pull out my golden shovel and dig for that hidden booty!

I was ready to fly around unexplored islands, following my treasure map, defeating the dark dragon that guarded the ancient treasure of old!

alas.... the magic has gone.. :(

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Originally Posted by duceTRE

the Diadem: a Grindfest of Extraordinary Proportions!!!

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To be fair, people asked for a place to grind stuff without lockouts and where they could get "Horizontal progression"

Be careful what you wish for.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

To be fair, people asked for a place to grind stuff without lockouts and where they could get "Horizontal progression"

Be careful what you wish for.

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That's cool but then they shouldn't have labeled it as something that sounds like something completely the opposite of grinding.

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Originally Posted by WinterLuna

That's cool but then they shouldn't have labeled it as something that sounds like something completely the opposite of grinding.

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Have you explored it? The area is actually quite large. Besides, what would they have called it, "Sea of Clouds Grindfest Extraordinaire"?

I mean, the game is called FINAL Fantasy, yet there are zillions of them. They are notorious for naming things not what they are :P

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

Have you explored it? The area is actually quite large. Besides, what would they have called it, "Sea of Clouds Grindfest Extraordinaire"?

I mean, the game is called FINAL Fantasy, yet there are zillions of them. They are notorious for naming things not what they are :P

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I have explored it, and that's the issue. A large map doesn't make it any more fun once you've already seen everything.

That's a good point and made me laugh :P I still think they need to up the game with the exploration aspect though. A lot of players were very disappointed with Diadem. I don't see why people would be opposed to making it more interactive or fun to play.

You know why I like Diadem?

Have you ever played Final Fantasy XI?

There is an endgame session called Dynamis. In the days of old, You needed an Alliance to successfully complete Dynamis. Once all the necessary parts were completed (such as killing a certain enemy and/or obtaining a certain item to clear it), if you have time remaining, the group stay in a certain spot and farm the rest of the mobs for Relic gear until time ran out.

Because it was Dynamis, Relic gear had some BiS pieces, and some pieces made other players envious of you. Diadem feels like the ending portion of Dynamis, which is why I like it.

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Originally Posted by WinterLuna

I have explored it, and that's the issue. A large map doesn't make it any more fun once you've already seen everything.

That's a good point and made me laugh :P I still think they need to up the game with the exploration aspect though. A lot of players were very disappointed with Diadem. I don't see why people would be opposed to making it more interactive or fun to play.

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Most players complained that area in FFXI were too huge, that "exploration" required too much effort, such as questing to get a Chocobo, long walks, sometimes needing to Sneak or Invisible yourself to see all the corners as you'll get your arse handed to you by a simple Rabbit. It was possibly tweaked down in FFXIV to make it more pleasing for those that just wanted a quick look-see and then go on the doing their own things. People grew tired of walking from Point A to Point B every time they had to enter an area. Personally, I miss those days; many people in FFXIV are lazy.

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Originally Posted by Jim_Berry

Because it was Dynamis, Relic gear had some BiS pieces, and some pieces made other players envious of you. Diadem feels like the ending portion of Dynamis, which is why I like it.

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Diadem feels nothing like Dynamis in my opinion. Dynamis was more interesting. I lost interest in Diadem after the first run after I saw what it truly was, just mindless zerg at one spot. I had hoped it actually was like Dynamis, heh.

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Originally Posted by Jim_Berry

Most players complained that area in FFXI were too huge, that "exploration" required too much effort, such as questing to get a Chocobo, long walks, sometimes needing to Sneak or Invisible yourself to see all the corners as you'll get your arse handed to you by a simple Rabbit. It was possibly tweaked down in FFXIV to make it more pleasing for those that just wanted a quick look-see and then go on the doing their own things. People grew tired of walking from Point A to Point B every time they had to enter an area. Personally, I miss those days; many people in FFXIV are lazy.

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I loved XI actually going to a new place felt like it mattered like going to Jeuno for first time.

the trouble of the diadem are a few thing:
- first the number of people.... 82 is ridiculous... how they expect people to not zerg it?
- the false random of the start, monster generally don't change we know most of the map like you have said and it's...well find the best place for farm monster.
- the idea to make it a open world content hunt 2.0.... seriously...

it was possible to create a very interesting and challengin content with the diadem, plus to reward more the player and the FC that did work on get the airship ready for it.

instead they have play safe and do what japanese love, without take in account that on the 4 million a large part now is not japanese anymore.
the map is massive, why they haven't cut it in small map with random monster generate with random objective.... i don't understand... i fail to understand what they try to accomplish instead to work on a true new content. because diadem is not a new content, is a hunt and an open world area for limited number of people.

a good example of stuff you can do with the diadem and exploration, like said, cut the map in small area, per island by example. make people decide what sort of mission they will do: extermination, protection, exploration or study (for the gatherer)
each type of mission offering possibility for player to do different objective, like kill tons of monster, or protect an area against wave of enemy, find rare chest that seems to be hidden around, or simply gather material.
it will have avoided the trouble of people going afk or going gatherer and all the drama about the loot. people will have know what they was going for before hand.

after the monster and the island is picked randomly, with a chance of a boss appearing in extermination/protection/exploration mission. or bonus objective rewarding more token or gear. finally it will be possible to create a system for 8-24 player that is far better than going for a zergfest as we have now.

more important i will avoid to create random and replayability by the loot... because that how yoshida and it team create replayability, by the loot, not the gameplay or the fun... and i think it's the part that need to be adressed fast. they need to stop to think that the loot random is enough for make people happy!

but well, we all know that what we said here will never be heard by the japanese dev. for two reason, them main public japanese public enjoy the diadem (they are the main public because they are close of them and understand how they think) and second they don't want to take risk... i do hope they will wake up soon before repeat WoW error.

@Jim_Berry, that actually sounds extremely fun. Of course I'm not asking for overly challenging things but just something more than "find a crystal" that's two steps away away from me, or "find coffers" which I'm going to do just by killing stuff. At the moment I find it very boring and it almost makes me want to sleep. :(