What terms were violated?

Yesterday I que'd up for my leveling roulette and I go Sohm Al. It was my first time running this dungeon on PLD. I have run this dungeon plenty of time on my other jobs. Including DRK and WAR. So tanking is not new to me. But I feel like PLDs hate generation is a bit lackluster compaired to the other 2. The party was composed of PLD, SCH, BLM, and a DRG. It was the DRGs first time running it. One thing I like to do when I tank with a DF party is to only pull the first set of mobs to see how fast we can take them down and if mass pulling is worth it. I also look at what the party is composed of and see if mass pulling is even worth it. Since I see that the party is composed of a DRG and BLM I figure mass pulling wouldn't really be worth it. So after fighting the first group I realize that it wouldn't really be worth it.


I start getting some lag during these fights and lost hate a couple times on 2 or 3 mobs on the way to the first boss. So I figure incase of more lag I better take it slow. I'd rather be safe than sorry. So we down the first boss no problem. Then, we go to the second area. The SCH tells me to pull more and I say I'm not comfortable pulling mulitple mobs. Well then I hit a huge lag spike and when I come back the SCH had pulled the two little dragons from the next platform and the party had wiped. He then went crazy telling me that he doesn't heal people who don't do their jobs. I was just like whatever. And repeated that I don't feel comfortable pulling a bunch of mobs at a time. He continued to tell me to learn to play my job and he wasn't going to heal or buff me anymore. He'd heal anybody else but me. I was just like whatever, he'll get over it. But he didn't.

We get to the second boss and because of his temper tantrum we wipe at least 5 times. The BLM tried to heal me during the fight, but even with her Physicks and my Cures we couldn't survive. I gave up talking to him to try and get him to heal. The BLM and DRG were begging him to just drop it and heal so we can complete the dungeon. This went on for 10-15 minutes. He replied with, "I can deal with people learning to play their jobs, I can deal with people raging, I can deal with people B**ching and moaning. What I can't deal with is people queing for a dungeon and refusing to do their jobs. Those people can f**k off."

So that's when I broke down and actually filled a harrasment report. We ended up kicking him for harrasment. We couldn't get a healer to join inprogress so I had my roomie log on and cure the rest of the dungeon so the other 2 members could get their clear. As soon as I got out of the dugeon a GM contacted me and I told him/her what had happened. They said that they would review what happened and see if the SCH violated any rules. My question is, what rules do you think the SCH violated? And what whould the resulting outcome be if they deem he violated the rules?

well if they continuously refused to heal you while cursing at people I'd say thats grounds for some kind of harassment at least. but you should get your internet checked lol

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Originally Posted by mdha02

"I can deal with people learning to play their jobs, I can deal with people raging, I can deal with people B**ching and moaning. What I can't deal with is people queing for a dungeon and refusing to do their jobs. Those people can f**k off."
-Proceeds to not do thier job-

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Oh that bitter sweet hypocrisy so good

I don't know that they violated any rules though atleast ones worth a noteworthy punishment probably a slap on the wrist maybe a 24 hour time out if they feel mean

If you have to ask on the forum what rules the sch violated then why file a report? It sounds like you're just going on an emotional reaction and reporting him for being mean.

That said, if he was willing to wipe the party five times just to make a point to you, if I had been in the situation I'd probably have reported too at that point, because I'd consider that harassment and griefing. Thing is though, you could have wasted less time for everyone after the first couple wipes by just kicking him sooner rather than later. You wouldn't have had to deal with all the stress from this either.

They've said refusal to perform one's job is perfectly fine for kicking but I don't know that it actually violates any rules. You could possibly file under "grief tactics violation" of the tos but really it's the GM's call and only they would know. However, they also don't share what action they take for a given report.

Another thing is, he may have been holding the party hostage for a kick, which I think is punishable, but there would need to be evidence in /p chat that this is going on - demanding to be kicked or else they will continue to wipe the group and such, because a kick allows them to immediately re queue without penalty. Just a thought.

By cursing and effectively baring the party from completion I believe it falls under the anti-harassment clauses.

Specifically these two I believe.

Prohibited Activities:
3.2 Disruption. You may not in any way disrupt or interfere with the Game experience of other players, including the disruption of Square Enix's computers and servers.

3.3 Profanity and Offensive Language. You may not use profanity or any language that a reasonable person would find offensive. The Game is for players aged 13 and older. You agree to behave accordingly.

Here is a link to the full ToS if anyone would like to see it,

http://support.na.square-enix.com/ru...2&tag=users_en

Why did you even let it get to this point? If I'm in a dungeon and someone starts being toxic I dismiss them right away. Did it twice in a day last week. Once because the healer was belittling the tank for not holding aggro when he kept precasting med 2/regen before every pull; kicked at first boss when he refused to heal. Second kick was a dps who went off on a fresh 60 healer during one of the experts; kicked at last boss.

Wouldn't it be grief tactics?
I've reported a fair share of people for griefing my tank pulls by either trying to pull ahead when I've determined the slow dps isn't worth the potential healer running out of mp situation/wipe or I didn't feel comfortable pulling more 'cause first time tanking, etc.
That and one time a monk tried to hold the party hostage by gaining from our exp while they sat back and did nothing after I asked them politely to please stop pulling ahead because I didn't feel comfortable pulling more (after them pulling too much twice and wiping us mind you).

It's grief tactics in my opinion and that constitutes a report for harassment.

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Originally Posted by Kaiser-Ace

3.3 Profanity and Offensive Language. You may not use profanity or any language that a reasonable person would find offensive. The Game is for players aged 13 and older. You agree to behave accordingly.

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So then why even give the option to remove the chat filter if they're just gonna flat out say "no cursing allowed".
I don't get it.

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Originally Posted by VitalSuit

So then why even give the option to remove the chat filter if they're just gonna flat out say "no cursing allowed".
I don't get it.

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I curse in game all the time, but I do it with friends who are of my age and don't mind me swearing. Exercise your better judgement.

If you want to take it slow, you are free to do just that.

In my opinion though, you lose a little credibility by saying you're choosing to take it slow because you have a DRG and a BLM, and that lag made you lose hate, and you are worried you might get more lag.
I'm not trying to be mean, but these are silly reasons that don't really stand up. If you want to take it a less hectic pace, there is nothing wrong with that at all, but don't give odd reasons. You don't have to justify it if that's the pace you are comfortable with

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Originally Posted by mdha02

My question is, what rules do you think the SCH violated? And what whould the resulting outcome be if they deem he violated the rules?

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I'm pretty there's something in the ToS that says you can't deliberately make another player's playing experience worse. By refusing to heal you, the SCH was making everyone else's playing experience bad.

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"I can deal with people learning to play their jobs, I can deal with people raging, I can deal with people B**ching and moaning. What I can't deal with is people queing for a dungeon and refusing to do their jobs. Those people can f**k off."

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So he basically can't deal with himself? ;)

Another point is that ToSs tend to be worded in CYA ways, so the de facto rules can end up pretty different. Doesn't look like the GMs are stopping in on this thread to offer clarification, though.

In the Prohibited Activities addendum, there is a catch-all that extends harassment beyond offensive language:

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There may be inappropriate conduct that does not fit into any of the above categories that may be considered harassment and as such would constitute an actionable offense.

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He's a jerk, and outright refused to play in the spirit of the game. Even had he not used offensive language, the kick for harassment is justifiable.

Your job is "tank" and his job is "heal." When you were tanking and he stopped doing his job because he didn't like how you were doing your job, that is pretty much automatic grounds for being removed from the party. It's true that you should've kicked him long before it escalated, but that doesn't excuse his behavior.

As for what the GM said, mostly they were alluding that they tend to stay out of conflicts that can be resolved by simply kicking the person in question (they're also fans of telling you about blacklist, something you can't use in duties...) However, more than likely you could get him in trouble for using misogynistic slurs if you voiced taking issue with it.

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Originally Posted by VitalSuit

So then why even give the option to remove the chat filter if they're just gonna flat out say "no cursing allowed".
I don't get it.

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This is how most games handle it, more than likely for legal reasons pertaining to their ESRB rating. Just because there's a filter in-game doesn't make offenses allowed.