Whats with people hating F2P?

Like, they say theyd quit if it was.

Why? You like spending loads of cash and wasting money every month/two months/three? I hate it. Its a waste but I do it because I like the game.

F2P usually means the game will become Pay 2 Win.

Without subs they'll need to generate profits via countless micro transactions for almost anything you can think of.

Actually, your average player tends to spend more on F2P games than they do on subscription-based games like WoW and FFXIV. Game quality also tends to suffer which is why the turnover rate for F2P games coming and going is so great. Going F2P also tends to start heading down the dark slippery slope of becoming P2W. Nobody likes P2W.

Because if it means the quality of game will be higher and I have to pay a monthly fee for that, then fine.
I'm one of those people who hate micro transactions with a passion.. I never do them. So in a F2P game I'd be pretty much never, ever paying for anything, which also means at that point I couldn't get anything cool or useful (since the game would have to make money somehow, it would go into useful items).

I don't see my sub as "wasting" money every month.. if you do then maybe it's time to play something else? Sure it's money that could go towards...anything else... but I've chosen to pay for a game and support a company that I like.

So no. I don't like F2P games, and especially if they come from a P2P game. If it was built with F2P, then -maybe-.

F2P is equated with P2W. Just imagine PVP where you lost because your enemy bought power with RL money and you did not.

Free to play? We are beyond that today, there are no free to play out there, maybe you meant free to lose?

F2P games usually have a significant drop in quality once they go F2P. I've been through quite a few F2P transitions, and every single game was worse off for it. The one I remember most was Tera where content updates became non-existent and the only thing getting added in updates was cash shop items, and removing some features so they could be added to the cash shop.

I am not against F2P as a model, because it can be done well (League of Legends), but most MMOs were not designed to be F2P from the start, so they don't always mesh well with the new model on top of the developers trying to be more aggressive with monetization.

EA and King mobile games should tell you clearly enough why Free-to-play and its more odious cousin, Freemium, are business models that cannot collide with a brick wall quickly or violently enough.

If you feel as though it's a 'waste' to be spending money on a subscription fee then why are you sticking around? I can't stand the F2P model for MMO's because it's usually done very poorly. Either items are too exclusive (in that they're only available for a short time and thus making collectors stress over them), they're too expensive (stacking up to more than a monthly subscription fee costs) or just too mandatory.

Because I'd be spending infinitely more money on costumes if it did go F2P. Instead of glamour pieces becoming craftable, they'd go straight to the cash shop for $15-20 a pop. $15 a month is a lot less than $30+.

Well ever played a mobile game, the game pay be free but you start playing and you can speed up things by buying. Theres more items you can have by paying. Theres just constant in-app purchases to play the game and its annoying thats what its like when a game goes F2P. Happened in SWTOR and it just went total crap.

I can justify the monthly sub easily however, I pay monthly and I can get countless hours of gameplay, plus every 3ish months a patch that adds a whole bunch of new content for me to do. Many people can justify paying probably the same monthly sub price to go see a movie and thats about 2 hours on enjoyment there. So sub price for this can be easily justified. F2P can not, it just makes the game horrible.

we already have a cash shop with outrageous prices I aint even care anymore.

One word... monetization. The company needs to make money somehow to keep the game going. From server costs to content development, all of that still takes money. If they're not getting their money from subs them they need to get it some other way and, unfortunately, cosmetics on a cash shop will only get you stop far. People will eventually stop buying all the hats, minions and mounts you put on the shop as vanity items and eventually you will need to turn to peddling content on it instead.

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Originally Posted by ElHeggunte

Actually, your average player tends to spend more on F2P games than they do on subscription-based games like WoW and FFXIV. Game quality also tends to suffer which is why the turnover rate for F2P games coming and going is so great. Going F2P also tends to start heading down the dark slippery slope of becoming P2W. Nobody likes P2W.

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Most F2P games are geared towards making the gear/exp/gold grind incredibly unbearable UNLESS you pay.
Look at GW2 and how it handles its version of the Glamor and Aesthetician.

Those are the sorts of things that F2P games tend to do. Reducing your drop rates, EXP Gains, money gains and generally locking away features of the game behind a paywall.

The average spends more on F2P games not because what they're buying is what they want, they're spending that money because they have to. SWTORs initial F2P even locked HOTBARS behind a paywall.

Not many F2P games manage to keep players invested long term, So they spend a lot of effort on hooking a new player and getting them to buy something at least once before they inevitably quit.

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Originally Posted by ElHeggunte

Actually, your average player tends to spend more on F2P games than they do on subscription-based games like WoW and FFXIV.

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This.
This is the main reason.
Anyone who still deludes themselves a game would become cheaper to them if it went F2P is incredibly naive.
But hey, at least you spend all that money "because you want to", right? Not because the game is "forcing" you to!
Oh, psychology..:rolleyes:

F2P doesn't mean we all get to play games for nothing, it's simply a different business model. A model which more and more games are moving towards and gamers like us should reject at every twist and turn. Developers are moving towards it because it actually makes them more money, not less and the gamers become divided between those who are prepared to pay to win and those that aren't. I know someone who spent over $400 on League of Legends, even games that are actually free after initial purchase like Call of Duty but introduce a pay for drops system (Advanced Supply Drops) turn towards pay to win with people paying hundreds of $ to get the items they want.

Imagine if when the new Tomestones are released SE decide to allow you to buy them with actual money, they wont be cheap and what will happen is all those players who are prepared to throw $40 (or more) at the game the day the patch comes out will get all the gear on day 1. All that will do is make it harder/impossible to those who don't want to pay to get into groups to clear new content.

I'm a mature gamer and I can easily afford to throw a few hundred $'s at this game if I wanted to, that doesn't mean I will, in fact I work hard for my money so if it did become F2P I'd quit that very same day.

I understand you can buy items in FF14 with real money but they are all vanity items, there is a reason for that and that's the way it should stay.

Also the idea that if it went F2P and people paid more for different items then SE would give more money to develop FFXIV is completely wrong. FFXIV will be given the same budget no matter how much it is earning, it just means SE has more money for other games. The money we spend on items in the cash shop now does not go towards FFXIV and any other methods of getting money will never go to this game.

Imagine for a second if the game goes F2P: You're going to cap your Esoterics for the week. You queue up for your expert and another dungeon afterwards. You go to queue up for another dungeon but wait, you already hit your maximum amount of dungeon runs which won't refill for two days. Pay $3.99 in the cash shop to refill your dungeon stamina! Or if the raid content was hidden behind a paywall, and you had to pay $10 to access the content and a $1 for every five wipes.

Free to play is just a cover-up for what it really is: Pay to play.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

If you feel as though it's a 'waste' to be spending money on a subscription fee then why are you sticking around? I can't stand the F2P model for MMO's because it's usually done very poorly. Either items are too exclusive (in that they're only available for a short time and thus making collectors stress over them), they're too expensive (stacking up to more than a monthly subscription fee costs) or just too mandatory.

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Please read the description.

I stick around because I like the game.

F2p always means more gold sellers, even worse cash shops than now (10.50 for minfilla stuff? wuttt), little retarded kids that ruin the overall feel of the game, more elitists that actually don't know what they're doing, more nerfs. A lot more nerfs so the f2p playerbase stays.

I'm not playing p2p games just because they're better. I like them because the community is usually better, more mature. I usually also play p2p games, because there's no cash shop. That one wnet out of the window, especially since yoshi-p likes doing what he said he wouldn't do. Yes, I'm looking at you flying mounts.

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Originally Posted by Nephera

we already have a cash shop with outrageous prices I aint even care anymore.

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Things you can buy on the cash shop: Glamours, minions, pots of rare dye, extra storage space, a stupid expensive fancy horse, server transfers, name changes, race changes

Things you cannot buy on the cash shop in XIV that you can buy in most F2P games: Exp boosts, gear with stats or upgrade items for gear, gil or other in-game currencies

The day the cash shop starts selling 210 gear directly to players is the day I quit. If you're running around in the Minfilia outfit, it just shows you had $15 to spare. If you're running around in ilvl 200+ gear, it shows you've actually been playing the game.

I would probably quit this game. If it went F2P content patches would probably be every 6 months and much smaller since funds would be decreased. And when they did come out we could be charged for the patch if they really wanted to charge for it. Also side note i think the subscription is not that bad since I could easily spend $20 or more at a movie theater per month. This game gives me entertainment everyday and is worth it.

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Originally Posted by Youkulm

F2P usually means the game will become Pay 2 Win.

Without subs they'll need to generate profits via countless micro transactions for almost anything you can think of.

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Originally Posted by ElHeggunte

Actually, your average player tends to spend more on F2P games than they do on subscription-based games like WoW and FFXIV. Game quality also tends to suffer which is why the turnover rate for F2P games coming and going is so great. Going F2P also tends to start heading down the dark slippery slope of becoming P2W. Nobody likes P2W.

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Originally Posted by AskaRay

Because if it means the quality of game will be higher and I have to pay a monthly fee for that, then fine.
I'm one of those people who hate micro transactions with a passion.. I never do them. So in a F2P game I'd be pretty much never, ever paying for anything, which also means at that point I couldn't get anything cool or useful (since the game would have to make money somehow, it would go into useful items).

I don't see my sub as "wasting" money every month.. if you do then maybe it's time to play something else? Sure it's money that could go towards...anything else... but I've chosen to pay for a game and support a company that I like.

So no. I don't like F2P games, and especially if they come from a P2P game. If it was built with F2P, then -maybe-.

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This, exactly!


Also, the thing I hate (and I hate it with great passion) most on any F2P game is:
They always have a cash shop that introduces rare items/favorite items in a stupid RNG-box and easily get away with it. People end up spending lots of money in order to get the mount/costume/whatever out of that said RNG-box.

I think customers tend to feel that subscription games are actually a good value. I've accumulated hundreds of days, thousands of hours of playtime, and never felt that I was wasting money. In fact, I've purchased less console games since joining FFXIV because their entertainment value can't hold a candle to FFXIV without being a deep RPG or a game with significant replayability, something I can sink hundreds of hours into after paying $60.

The game has to cover its development costs somewhere, and if it's not through subscriptions, it will be through transactions that affect every minutia of the game. That's much more invasive to my experience than the cost of going to the cinema, a couple packs of smokes, or a couple six packs as a subscription fee every month.

F2P will come with an influx of immature players, rampant rmt, and SE trying to hide a lot more stuff behind their cash shop.

Everyone just gets more shadier overall.

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Originally Posted by ElHeggunte

Actually, your average player tends to spend more on F2P games than they do on subscription-based games like WoW and FFXIV. Game quality also tends to suffer which is why the turnover rate for F2P games coming and going is so great. Going F2P also tends to start heading down the dark slippery slope of becoming P2W. Nobody likes P2W.

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Nope, your average player actually doesnt spend a penny on it. F2P games rely on people who spend hundreds on the game (whales).

When Rift went free to play it had a reasonable model. The idea was that you still had a subscription but it give buffs and the rest of the money would come from mounts and costumes. Eventually the buffed the subscription so if you dodnt subscribe you couldnt cap your currency easily etc.. True PTW.

They quickly found out that you have to output lots of these to get the money so they turned to the greatest evil you now get in games - lottery boxes. You always got a prize so it's not gambling - loophole - but what you wanted was had very low in odds. Instead of outright purchasing that mount or costume it was now locked behind RNG with a chance to get it. These boxes brought in tons of money. New mount lottery boxes because world event. They were sneaky. You could do dailies to get a version of the mounts but it took about six months so by the time you got it there were other shines.

Trion are the western publisher of ArcheAge and they adopted the lottery box method there too. Any event the good costumes are behind a lottery box.

F2P is only viable when you employ dirty ways to get money from people like lottery boxes. Sadly FF14 is increasingly putting desirable things on the cash shop.

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Originally Posted by Saccharin

Nope, your average player actually doesnt spend a penny on it. F2P games rely on people who spend hundreds on the game (whales).

When Rift went free to play it had a reasonable model. The idea was that you still had a subscription but it give buffs and the rest of the money would come from mounts and costumes. Eventually the buffed the subscription so if you dodnt subscribe you couldnt cap your currency easily etc.. True PTW.

They quickly found out that you have to output lots of these to get the money so they turned to the greatest evil you now get in games - lottery boxes. You always got a prize so it's not gambling - loophole - but what you wanted was had very low in odds. Instead of outright purchasing that mount or costume it was now locked behind RNG with a chance to get it. These boxes brought in tons of money. New mount lottery boxes because world event. They were sneaky. You could do dailies to get a version of the mounts but it took about six months so by the time you got it there were other shines.

Trion are the western publisher of ArcheAge and they adopted the lottery box method there too. Any event the good costumes are behind a lottery box.

F2P is only viable when you employ dirty ways to get money from people like lottery boxes. Sadly FF14 is increasingly putting desirable things on the cash shop.

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This is the sole reason why I hate Trion with great passion and will never ever play a game with their name again!!

So far SE has kept its only lottery box strictly in-game with the stupid card packs from Gold Saucer. They're abstracted twice away from real dollars - you cannot even buy them with real gil, you have to buy them with MGP or win them in the tournament.

If SE offers a lottery box on the cash shop I'm going to seriously raise an eyebrow.

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Originally Posted by PawsTheKitti123

Why? You like spending loads of cash and wasting money every month/two months/three? I hate it. Its a waste

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I don't think very many people are going to agree with you on this.

I know I for one don't feel like my subscription is a waste. If it was, I wouldn't be paying it.

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Originally Posted by Catwho

So far SE has kept its only lottery box strictly in-game with the stupid card packs from Gold Saucer. They're abstracted twice away from real dollars - you cannot even buy them with real gil, you have to buy them with MGP or win them in the tournament.

If SE offers a lottery box on the cash shop I'm going to seriously raise an eyebrow.

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Going what were were told the only reason they couldn't monetise the Golden Saucer was because there would have been too many legal issues with the number of territories the game is in. Sadly it seems like this game is slowly going towards a cash shop heavy model.

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Originally Posted by Saccharin

F2P is only viable when you employ dirty ways to get money from people like lottery boxes. Sadly FF14 is increasingly putting desirable things on the cash shop.

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Wildstar, Dota 2 and Path of Exile all do F2P in an incredibly fair manner (more fair than some P2P games). It's more than viable, it just isn't "viable" if the company behind it is SE or any other greedy corporation that doesn't care for their consumers.

Lol @ the title. I'm a 4yr Perfect World vet and that game is "F2P", however you gotta spend $1k+ to get base R9 gear. There is legitimate reason for not liking F2P games. F2P games rip you off hard through the method of expensive micro transactions. Eventually it pushes people away from the games. STO is a better example than PWI.

Fancy looking things on the shop are fine. What is not fine are advantages. Like other f2p games have subs, that give you stuff like more inv space, more marketplace slots to sell, no restrictions on this and that and makes you almost cry inside.
I've always played F2P mmos before i found FF. First time paying for a monthly fee game, and i'm damn satisfied with this. So no thanks.

Free 2 play games have bad communities.

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Originally Posted by Colorful

Wildstar, Dota 2 and Path of Exile all do F2P in an incredibly fair manner (more fair than some P2P games). It's more than viable, it just isn't "viable" if the company behind it is SE or any other greedy corporation that doesn't care for their consumers.

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Wildstar is a wait and see. When the game launched they had 18 months of content and because they had a break and decided to fix things they probably have over half of that content left so when they run out of prepaired content then we;ll see how F2P really goes.

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Originally Posted by Evangela

Free 2 play games have bad communities.

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I've found FF14 dungeon finder quite toxic from the 2.x launch. I think games in general just have bad communities because they were never moderated properly. F2P games have virtually no moderation.

I have to give credit to SE, any time I've put in a ticket about other player's behaviour it's been answered in minutes.

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Originally Posted by PawsTheKitti123

Like, they say theyd quit if it was.
Its a waste but I do it because I like the game.

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You, kind of, contradicted yourself. If you're enjoying the game, then the subscription isn't a waste.

When TERA went f2p, they made so dyes only lasted one hour (so you had to buy permanent dye from the shop) and removed armor glamour (which forced you to buy costumes from cash shop)

So no thank you.

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Originally Posted by PawsTheKitti123

Please read the description.

I stick around because I like the game.

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If you like the game, then why does it feel like a waste? I think that is what people are confused about.

I really enjoy this game. Therefore, I don't think the my sub is a waste. I would not want it to go F2P for the plethora of reasons everyone else gave.

F2P means less content, content comes out much slower, Pay 2 win, many many micro transactions. The quality of this game would be quite terrible I would say SE is doing good so far (i'm probably going to get burned for saying that) but still i'm enjoying myself and I pay my $15 a month and I have no complaints. Everyday I run stuff with my FC and we have a blast in the Diadem and getting Thordan down this content patch that came out has breathed some life back into this game for me.

I think it's also fair to note FFXI has been out like what...13ish years? And it still hasn't gone f2p.
I think that kinda shows S.E's stance on taking an mmo that brings them a lot a money to a f2p model.