starting to charge at SW: TOR release is a horrid idea

FFXIV attracted a lot of people into "story" since the FF series and FFXI were story heavy.

SW: TOR is pretty well the newest MMO out there and heavily story driven. It also has a huge amount of preorders.

Starting to charge right when a competitor is releasing a much better rated product is a really bad idea business wise

On the other hand the "new" version of the game looks -epic.- It would seem a much better idea to start charging -then- rather than now and lose subscriptions.

Agree.... require it to pay at November/December is a huge mistake. Was hoping they start charging at ffxiv 2.0 or the job system but i guess it will take too long.

We have had over a years worth of free gaming (ok not the best quality but still free), they were going to charge at some point they have chosen the date they have as it suited THEM best.

You now have 3 options, rage quit, accept it and start paying, wait till 2.0 is released.

waiting until 2.0 would probably be the best bet

I'm hoping they offer a reward for the people who keep playing during the changes, I'm not 100% happy about the billing but I do see why they need to start billing to keep this game moving for free all this time must have hurt profits.

I will likely pay for XIVPads but I really wish I did not have to, its still a Beta for me, it feels as if the last year was an alpha compared to v2 and we are now moving into Beta up until v2.

I dont pay for betas.

the only benefit is more people quit and then the server is less laggy, woot =D

Personally I don't mind paying but I do run a business and its -very- common business sense not to "launch" a product when there is a better alternative coming out. Like you wouldn't launch you're new semi-decent phone on the day of the iphone launch.

It's also a horrible decsision because at the $20 store price FFXIV makes an awesome christmas present.

So they will be alienating a bunch of people who won't pay due to it being a beta
Diminishing the possibility of the game making it under people's christmas trees
And losing a lot of players to SW TOR which according to almost all reviews is -far- superior to FFXIV at this stage (or at least there is a widespread belief that it is)

It is pretty well the -worst- possible time they could pick to start charging in Western markets. Maybe the choice is something based on Japan though?

SE seems to never learn from past mistakes, last year they released the game before wow, to get a head start, we all know where that went, now they want to start charging when games like SW: TOR and probably GW2 and Diablo 3 are comming out...... Yeah SE that seems like the right thing to do.

Yeah...I wouldn't worry about Star WoW right now.

Let's just say for the fans sake, I hope they have the same desire to change and improve as Square did with this game.

Nah nothing will be able to compete with FF.
Graphics are already better then any game on the market and even games comming out in the next year.
FFXIV will mob the floor with those :D

I'm not disagreeing with you but I'll add that even as an avid Star Wars fan, I will not be playing TOR because I can't handle Star Wars having even a slightly cartoony art direction ruins it for me.

Don't get me wrong, I love games like Wind Waker etc, but I can't take Star Wars seriously if it is even a trace of "cartoony" and that is what I saw in the beta footage.

Also I'm sure I'll be attacked by someone but even though I enjoyed the story of The Clone Wars CG cartoon, I COULD NOT BARE the art style.

I'll be sticking to XIV for now.

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Originally Posted by GreatLeviathan

Nah nothing will be able to compete with FF.
Graphics are already better then any game on the market and even games comming out in the next year.
FFXIV will mob the floor with those :D

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As it has does for the past year right ?

Star wars can suck a nut!

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Originally Posted by XxOstiaxX

As it has does for the past year right ?

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Hell yeah. FFXIV is the only mmo that i really like.
I have played twelve sky, silkroad, wow, archlord, lotro and a few others.
This one is the best ever.

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Originally Posted by GreatLeviathan

Nah nothing will be able to compete with FF.
Graphics are already better then any game on the market and even games comming out in the next year.
FFXIV will mob the floor with those :D

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just like it has has more players now than it did at release right? it can't even keep it's small player base it has now with it being free to play and now gonna charge. at least they realized the game was not completed and didn't charge under tanaka.

2 decent patches and some framework where they say it's only 50% complete and now charging is ok?

TOR looks to be a disgrace to the KOTOR name, XIV has lots to be worried about but TOR isn't one of them.

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Originally Posted by GreatLeviathan

Hell yeah. FFXIV is the only mmo that i really like.
I have played twelve sky, silkroad, wow, archlord, lotro and a few others.
This one is the best ever.

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The only worthy MMO's that you mentioned where WOW and LOTOR, both wish blow this game out of the water currently in every category besides lookin cute, yeah FFXI looks cute, but that's the only thing going for it right now :/

Also wow and lotor have 10000000000000000000% the subscriptions this game has, and one is pay to play and the other one is a F2P MMO :)

@Greatleviathan

"Hell yeah. FFXIV is the only mmo that i really like.
I have played twelve sky, silkroad, wow, archlord, lotro and a few others.
This one is the best ever. "

Those are the worst of the worst mmo's imo.All F2p,and lotro is f2p now also ( not without reason ).Sorry to say but you have a bad taste if you think any of those games are worth playing.And yes obviously FFXIV is much better then those games,but that still doesnt make FFXIV worth paying for as it is now.The only thing FFXIV has above other mmos on the market right now,is graphics,and thats it.

dont feel like reading this whole thread, but seriously? do you think all of the changes they showed us they are making is free? this game has been COMPLETELY free for over a year do you have any grasp of how much these servers cost to keep up? If you want to see the changes to make this game worth paying, you're going to have to start paying early for SE to make them. Think of it as an investment.

TOR will have its audience, but Bioware and EA are mad if they think they're going to bring in more than maybe 2 million persistent subscriptions after the first 4-month honeymoon. There are plenty of Star Wars fans out there yes, but there are also plenty of people who aren't Star Wars fans and don't care for Bioware games(yes, these people exist).

That isn't to say that I don't agree that it's a bit off to start charging now before a "good foundation" of what the game will be like post-2.0(I.E introduction of jobs) is released and I'll definitely give TOR it's fair shot as a Star Wars fan myself, but I definitely disagree that FFXIV has to worry about TOR.

They aren't getting my money, I am waiting for 2.0 personally. I am not paying for a unfinished beta quality game which still lacks a lot of basic mmo features.

Honestly, Ver.2.0 looks promising, but the fact that it's full completion isn't planned for more than a year down the road is killer. I for one will more than likely wait it out, and if I'm still interested in this game, check it out when 2.0 is in full swing. Till then, SW:TOR, TES:Skyrim, and other games will hopefully keep me busy.

On the note of charging starting in November, I do believe it's a bit too early to start this, they could at least wait for some of the 2.0 features to be thrown in before they deem the game any different than it is now. The only thing that rather bugs me is the fact that I'm one of those people who bought the collectors edition hoping the game was going to be like this up coming 2.0 from release, but played for less than a month and have let the game sit there collecting dust since.

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Originally Posted by Isaaru

dont feel like reading this whole thread, but seriously? do you think all of the changes they showed us they are making is free? this game has been COMPLETELY free for over a year do you have any grasp of how much these servers cost to keep up? If you want to see the changes to make this game worth paying, you're going to have to start paying early for SE to make them. Think of it as an investment.

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seeking an investment is only useful if people are willing to invest.

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Originally Posted by Isaaru

dont feel like reading this whole thread, but seriously? do you think all of the changes they showed us they are making is free? this game has been COMPLETELY free for over a year do you have any grasp of how much these servers cost to keep up? If you want to see the changes to make this game worth paying, you're going to have to start paying early for SE to make them. Think of it as an investment.

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we already did invest when we bought the game and bought the crysta to use on it. quite frankly, if they start charging now i will just let my crysta sit in the account and will not use it until the game gets great reviews on mmorpg. we invested in what should have been a finished product and got partially completed garbage. now they remove this and that and add nothing to replace it and we are left with an even less completed piece of trash.

if you come up and ask me to float you money to do something and you don't do it the first time there's no way i will invest more of my money on you until you get it right.

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Originally Posted by Isaaru

dont feel like reading this whole thread, but seriously? do you think all of the changes they showed us they are making is free? this game has been COMPLETELY free for over a year do you have any grasp of how much these servers cost to keep up? If you want to see the changes to make this game worth paying, you're going to have to start paying early for SE to make them. Think of it as an investment.

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Did you forget to read the part where they said FREE OF CHARGE.

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Originally Posted by Isaaru

dont feel like reading this whole thread, but seriously? do you think all of the changes they showed us they are making is free? this game has been COMPLETELY free for over a year do you have any grasp of how much these servers cost to keep up? If you want to see the changes to make this game worth paying, you're going to have to start paying early for SE to make them. Think of it as an investment.

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may as well add to the other sentiments, but no I do not have any concept of how much it costs to maintain an MMO for free for about a year when the business model was based on it being a subscription service
The question is, would any of that information affect my opinion as to the state of the game and how I feel about their decision to start charging so far in advance of a complete re-imagining? It would not. I believe it to be too much too fast, and a repeat of the sentiment that got this game into the trouble it started with.

If I consider the FFXIV's monthly payment an investment, I'm basically being asked to fund FFXIV's development.

Now the thing is, as I see it, I'm not supposed to be paying for the game's development. I'm a customer, not an investor, I already paid top dollar for a Collector's Edition and my monthly fee should be used to fund a good service. Unfortunately, given that this is not the case and that the changes they promise are so far in the horizon, I see no reason for me to fund the 1.20 through 1.99 FFXIV beta. I will come back when 2.0 hits and if it's as good as they promise it'll be, I'll gladly pay for it.

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Originally Posted by Azurymber

FFXIV attracted a lot of people into "story" since the FF series and FFXI were story heavy.

SW: TOR is pretty well the newest MMO out there and heavily story driven. It also has a huge amount of preorders.

Starting to charge right when a competitor is releasing a much better rated product is a really bad idea business wise

On the other hand the "new" version of the game looks -epic.- It would seem a much better idea to start charging -then- rather than now and lose subscriptions.

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Not to mention the fact they are only 50% done ... add in the fact that there are an INSANE amount of AAA games coming out from now till spring next year , including probably one of the biggest mmo releases ever, in the same month of FF going Pay to play ... you have GOT to wonder... who the **** in their right mind would decide to charge for 14 starting near end of this year?! This has got to be one of the worst gaming business decisions I've seen in a LONG time!!! At LEAST have the half of brain it takes to know you should wait at least a month or two after... say feb or so?

Charging once 1.21 is live would be PERFECT IMO (If they can't in fact wait till 2.0 is out!) ^^

The way I see it, it doesn't matter if they want to charge now and lets say 90% of the player base stops playing/paying they will still move forward with their plans and plenty of those player will come back for the 2.0 free trail as well as new players if they get to free trail it aswell and see what FFXIV can truly be after about another year of work. Let's face it they are not making any money off this game now so what can it really hurt lol.

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Originally Posted by Isaaru

dont feel like reading this whole thread, but seriously? do you think all of the changes they showed us they are making is free? this game has been COMPLETELY free for over a year do you have any grasp of how much these servers cost to keep up? If you want to see the changes to make this game worth paying, you're going to have to start paying early for SE to make them. Think of it as an investment.

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Server maintain is one of the smallest costs while upkeeping MMO. I don't know where that Myths about server costs originated but it's pure Myth.
True costs are development, and after that mainting product.
By any means. FFXIV should be under development because it's far from being complete. If you want to pay for incomplete product. Your wish.
I won't.
Especially if so many great games showing on horizon..

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Starting to charge right when a competitor is releasing a much better rated product is a really bad idea business wise

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Assuming that somebody gives a damn of XIV pre-2.0, with or without subs is a really bad idea logic wise.

25k people paying them is better than 50k people not paying them. And they only need few thousand people to give feedback as well. The rest is filler.

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Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah

Assuming that somebody gives a damn of XIV pre-2.0, with or without subs is a really bad idea logic wise.

25k people paying them is better than 50k people not paying them. And they only need few thousand people to give feedback as well. The rest is filler.

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You are under the assumption that every single person that play's this game right now, will pay, and they wont, they will lose 10-15 of their current 25-35k players, that is about HALF! Not to mention the shit storm they will get from reviewers etc etc, now that the game has started to get a more positive view :/

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Originally Posted by XxOstiaxX

You are under the assumption that every single person that play's this game right now, will pay, and they wont, they will lose 10-15 of their current 25-35k players, that is about HALF! Not to mention the shit storm they will get from reviewers etc etc, now that the game has started to get a more positive view :/

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they don't think that far ahead. how quickly do you think the people that have started becoming more positive is going to spin this back to the complete bad way? it took a year for them to finally post a review stating the game was getting better and it gets immediately hit with this one. the review sites will use the charging and player drop as just more ammunition.

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Originally Posted by XxOstiaxX

You are under the assumption that every single person that play's this game right now, will pay

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Are you under the assumption that SE gives a damn how many people play the game for free? It's a negligible number at best, as I mentioned in my post. 50k subs of today turning into 25k paying subs tomorrow will not affect anyone negatively, and SE the least. So few people play this game that it simply doesn't matter whether 50% of them quit overnight or keep playing.

Your next assumption is that reviewers will give a damn about this broken game until 2.0. (They won't).

The only ones complaining are those who think anything they do pre-2.0 actually matters in the big picture of things. Tiny playerbase turns into a very tiny playerbase, reviewers still bash the game enough for no one to be interested, with or without subs.

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Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah

Are you under the assumption that SE gives a damn how many people play the game for free? It's a negligible number at best, as I mentioned in my post. 50k subs of today turning into 25k paying subs tomorrow will not affect anyone negatively, and SE the least. So few people play this game that it simply doesn't matter whether 50% of them quit overnight or keep playing.

Your next assumption is that reviewers will give a damn about this broken game until 2.0. (They won't).

The only ones complaining are those who think anything they do pre-2.0 actually matters in the big picture of things. Tiny playerbase turns into a very tiny playerbase, reviewers still bash the game enough for no one to be interested, with or without subs.

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if half the people quit this games that servers will be more empty, it will be harder to find parties, and since solo has been killed people will get bored at leave, further reducing the amount of money they draw in and the amount of members the game has at re-launch.

yeah but SW: TOR sucks nice story (if you go sith, rebel oozes way to much goodness) but everything else is pretty bad.

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Originally Posted by Krausus

yeah but SW: TOR sucks nice story (if you go sith, rebel oozes way to much goodness) but everything else is pretty bad.

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gameplay is fun o_o only bad thing i see about it is lack of classes.

gameplay isn't any different then any other MMO already on the market, its disappointing to say the least I was looking forward to a good futuristic mmo.

have you actually played it? gameplay is quite different.

Star Wars ToR

Storyline: Great
Graphics: Horrible
Gameplay: Wow Clone
Heavy Solo based

Yea that game will do great for 2 months, people will beat it get pissed off it is the same old same old. And come back to this game, WoW, or Rift.

ToR has very little chance of being a long term success. Much lower then XIV atm. It will be another Rift nothing more.