Please define 'Clear' party more clearly.

When I see a simple 'Clear party' in description, half people join because they've already cleared it (but don't have it on farm status yet), and the other half only expects to clear it for the first time. Which in most cases results in a typical 'learning party' session, 5 wipes, disbanding and a sense of time wasted because of... poor communication? Maybe party leaders could avoid this with more clear description of their parties.

well "clear party" in my opinion is pretty obvious, you want to kill the boss (for the first time ) and that it

Clear party to me means going for first kill. If it's a farm you call it a farm party.

'Clear' suggests that the point is to kill the boss (at least) once, with the expectation that this single kill will take about as long as a general farm party sticks together.

Clear means that you know the entirety of the fight, and just need that last push to get the last phase or something down. If you come in without knowledge of (almost) every mechanic and some experience, you're being a little rude.

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Originally Posted by Kaelah

If it's a farm you call it a farm party.

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Don't you mean wipe party?

On Tonberry they split clear parties into two different types.

Aim to clear: the goal is to clear, but it's more forgiving of people with less experience. It's not the end of the world if the party doesn't clear.

Clear party: demands more experience from the party members. A clear is pretty much expected. It's not unusual to see peoplr who have already cleared in this type of party helping out.

I'd say the responses in this thread clearly reinforce what the OP is saying. lol

I don't see people just say "clear party" so much as "Need to clear this fight" and then go on to specify if loot is also free-for-all (it usually is) and if other newcomers are welcome or what experience level is requested. But in either case it's usually a call for help from someone that is not 100% new to the fight, but needs assistance pushing through to a full clear. A few wipes are expected.

Clear to me usually means someone needs the clear, everyone else needs to or should be familiar with the fight, it's only going to be done once, and loot is fair and up for grabs to all attending (which is why you'd go help get the clear).

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Originally Posted by anguel

well "clear party" in my opinion is pretty obvious, you want to kill the boss (for the first time ) and that it

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Same here. Kinda obvious.

I always thought the OP's descriptions were one and the same. You should join a clear party if either 1. You know the fight well enough, just haven't been lucky enough to win. Or 2. You've beaten the fight but you don't have enough practice to have it on farm status yet.

It's SUPPOSED to be for people who know fight, but can't win. However, this is the gateway for many first-timers. Funny, though, because many "Clear" parties turn into "Farm" parties, but do much better than an initial farm group.

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Originally Posted by anguel

well "clear party" in my opinion is pretty obvious, you want to kill the boss (for the first time ) and that it

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Nah! That's "Learning Party".

Maybe it would be easier to describe the party on what phase they intend to work on.

Phase 1 Party
Phase 2 Party
Last Phase Party

And so on.

But I have always assumed that clear parties meant that there is an expectation to beat the boss (at some point). It might be formed for a daily, but it's not quite a farm party, either.

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Originally Posted by Amelia_Pond_Behemoth

I always thought the OP's descriptions were one and the same. You should join a clear party if either 1. You know the fight well enough, just haven't been lucky enough to win. Or 2. You've beaten the fight but you don't have enough practice to have it on farm status yet.

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Ideally this is the way it should be, but very often we get people joining who know next to nothing about the fight and are hoping for an easy clear. Or maybe they assume it's a learning party aiming to stick it out until clear.
I put "final phase progression" for my clear parties.

Three types of parties come to mind:

Learning/Progression Party: Fairly new or brand new or unsure members. Members are expected to research the fight beforehand to get a grasp on the basic mechanics.

Clear Party: Party Members know all of the mechanics and have attempted and failed this content before, but realize what needs to happen to succeed. A good Clear Party is better than a bad farm party.

Farm Party: All party members know the mechanics and the fight well enough that they know each upcoming mechanic in sequence. They should have all beaten the content before and offer no Poetic/Law bonus. Wiping more than once is typically a sign of a bad farm party.

It doesn't matter what you specify in the party finder because people will be rude and overlook or ignore it anyway.

If you're joining a clear party as someone who has cleared before but aren't confident enough to farm, then you're there for practice. Most people with this mindset just expect that a clear party has experience into a few phases. If you're wiping in the first phase over and over, usually those people feel like they're not going to get the practice they want and leave.

You know, there's this handy comment section in the Party Finder where you can lay out some rather specific descriptions of what you want the Party to do.

Yet people still only put "Clear Party" or "Be experienced" like 2 word sentences will somehow convey the intent of your Party to its fullest extent.

I see "Clear Party" and translate that as "Some Experience Required.

I see " Learning Party" and read it as "Rookies Welcomed".

I see " Farm Party" and I understand that as "Experienced players only, new players not Welcomed".

I see " Thorden EX Clear/Farm Party, No Noobs!!!" And I'm like "Really? This has only been out almost two weeks" and proceed to add said PL to my black list for unacceptable levels of elitisim.

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Originally Posted by Kaiser-Ace

I see " Thorden EX Clear/Farm Party, No Noobs!!!" And I'm like "Really? This has only been out almost two weeks" and proceed to add said PL to my black list for unacceptable levels of elitisim.

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almost 2 weeks? ...not even one yet

Clear party means one or more people have not completed the fight but have experience with all of the phases and mechanics. These types of groups are expected to clear with a minimal amount of wipes.

I've been in about as many clear parties where we actually managed to clear as I have joined clear party groups with people expecting carries and constantly wiping to the first phase. Its like playing the lottery with these groups. Sometimes you strike gold and everything works out, other times you feel like you just wasted your time.

I think its fair for people to leave a clear party if the group just isn't clearing or even close to.

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Originally Posted by Kaiser-Ace

I see " Thorden EX Clear/Farm Party, No Noobs!!!" And I'm like "Really? This has only been out almost two weeks" and proceed to add said PL to my black list for unacceptable levels of elitisim.

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Dude, I saw several Shiva EX "no noob" parties on the same day 2.4 dropped. I just don't know anymore.

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Originally Posted by Fevelle

Same here. Kinda obvious.

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No, it's not so obvious. That's why I've created this topic. Everyone has their own opinions what 'clear' means.

http://i.imgur.com/bpiQiUO.png

And another 'clear party' without law bonus:
http://i.imgur.com/yTxuFsv.png