I complained about this the day the patch came out but I wana refine my argument and see how others feel now that time has passed.
As a mage, I've simply have felt not comfortable in my own class since 1.19. It has to do with one major thing, my "balanced" stats makes my HP far surpass my MP. So much so that I feel like a warrior in mage clothing.
First, I want to explain the problem with MP/HP Ratio. Here's my example and I know FFXI is a bad word for some, but remember it's the closest example of what FFXIV is in the series and while I do agree that developers should have freedom of expression, they should also try to stay true to the series at the same time.
Base HP/MP for Elvan 75BLM/37WHM In FFXI
1041HP / 618MP
So for every 1 MP there is roughly 1⅔ HP
Base HP/MP For "Elvan" 46 Conj with New Jade Crook equipped in FFXIV
1953HP / 885MP
So for Every 1 MP There is 2⅕ HP
So that's a difference of over half a point increase in the ratio for MP/HP From XI.
In the early Final Fantasy games, most black mages had nearly 1 MP to 1 HP. Meaning in XIV We get over Twice the hp gain opposed to early Final Fantasy.
Enough numbers. What all this means in English is that points are being sacrificed so you can have more hp and physical bonuses. Those points in a party are worthless because in a perfect world, mages don't hit or get hit. What could we do with those extra points being allotted to VIT, STR and DEX? Why allot them to INT, MND and PIE of course! And that will give us better nuking/curing and MP pool. You want to encourage me to party SE? Make my stats optimum to party with.
My next problem is Materia has been pushed as an ultimatum for success. With normal mage gear in XI I could easily push my skills and MP for mages way up. Without Materia, my CNJ Stats hardly increase at all, my MP only goes up about 60 points.
Why don't we go about Materia a different way. Instead of sucking without it or ruling with it, we can succeed without it but own with it. All that needs is to re allotment of the balanced skills so that each class is at least a little specialized.
Yes I realized jobs and point allotment rehash are on the way, but am I gona have to sit on my hands with this awkward mage while I wait 4 months for Black and White mage? At least humor specialization till the jobs come out SE.
Sorry for the long post I didn't think I'd rant that long XD..... oh almost forgot, </rant>
More MP {[Can I have it?]}
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10-14-2011, 08:39 AMMahayanaMore MP {[Can I have it?]}
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10-14-2011, 08:44 AMJinko
I don't see what FF11 has to do with t his game, the boss encounters and monsters are working on totally different numbers and algorithms so you can't really compare the two.
I do agree though that it is odd to see a mage class with more HP than MP, both my Taru (FF11) and my Gnome (WoW) had more MP than they did HP, but at the end of the day if the devs feel that mages need more HP to balance fight and make encounters like Ifrit fair them so be it.
Like you mention in patch 1.20 we will have some control over distributing points again so this is most likely a temporary situation. -
10-14-2011, 08:51 AMMahayanaThe reason I brought up FFXI is the same reason I brought up FFI, because XIV isn't staying true to what a mage is. Even if it's temporary it takes time that I could be enjoying this game away from me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jinko
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10-14-2011, 08:53 AMkwestro
Keep HP the way it is. I hate being in battles based on how many times I have to spam heal, to survive a barrage of 600-800HP hits. Action, Heal, Heal, Action, Heal, Heal, Heal, Action, Action, Heal, Heal, Heal, Heal. That's boring and frustrating gameplay.
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10-14-2011, 08:54 AMJinkoWell this game is still basically in beta, its the very reason we aren't paying for it at the moment so sadly your just guna have to make do until 1.20.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mahayana
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10-14-2011, 08:58 AMMeowyWowie
One word: Materia
Go fright Ifrit and I'm sure you'll be grateful for having so much HP. -
10-14-2011, 09:06 AMJayvirDeforte
Yes, sit on your hands until stat allotment comes out.
On my 45 THM I currently have 134 STR, 128 VIT, 150 DEX and 217 PIE. If I could choose my stats, all of the points of STR and DEX would come out and almost exclusively go into PIE for the extra MP. They apparently try to keep it close to balanced for some reason... -
10-14-2011, 09:11 AMMahayanaYou obviously didn't read my paragraph about materia being to decisive, but you did just prove my point about it being pretty much an ultimatum for success.Quote:
Originally Posted by MeowyWowie
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10-14-2011, 09:16 AMMeowyWowie
I read the whole post.
M1 gear isn't hard to obtain at all. I don't see the problem. -
10-14-2011, 09:25 AMMahayana
The problem is that i should be able to function well as a mage without it. The gap between materia and no materia is too large.
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10-14-2011, 09:29 AMJennestiaIt's actually in a good spot, because Materia is painfully easy to get, however it's a long process if you don't buy it. It's a slippery slope though to say that you should be able to function normally without materia, because then DoW/L/H will state they should be able to function without materia as well and surprise -- SE wasted time and resources implementing a system that's supposed to power you up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mahayana
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10-14-2011, 09:32 AMFrein
The OP seems very subjective here.
1) You can't really draw parallels to FFXI as far as HM/MP ratios go because, as Jinko pointed out, the algorithms in FFXIV are way different. It seems like the OP has a personal preference for having more MP than HP because it makes his character appear more "magey" to him. Personally, I think the fact that a mage's physical stats are significantly lower than a fighter's is quite sufficient.
2) He wants to be able to optimize his point allocation. I would too if we were allowed to, however, since the stats are fixed and there is no opportunity cost to having them the way they are, I don't see an issue. If they released 1.19b with manual stat allocation tomorrow, it would also greatly buff everyone sensible enough to not gimp themselves, which would cause balancing issues.
3) His materia point is probably more valid. It seems like mages especially suffer from extremely materia focused itemization. Generally the +stats from materia are far greater than the bonus stats on equipment, so anyone looking to increase pretty much anything other than raw damage/armor will greatly, perhaps too much so, benefit from using materia. -
10-14-2011, 09:36 AMMahayanaYou insulted me and complimented me at the same time.... You get a like for that:PQuote:
Originally Posted by Frein
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10-14-2011, 10:44 AMMeowyWowie
We were all well aware that the game is being designed with M1 gear in mind before 1.19 came out. Materia wasn't implemented because they wanted us to strengthen our characters, it was implemented so we can have variety while still being on par with other characters. That's exactly what we asked for.
Forbidden materia, however, is meant to make OP characters at the cost of time/gil.
I think you are confusing the two.
Once we get stat reallocation back, we'll have way more flexibility than before, and that's a good thing. -
10-14-2011, 10:56 AMSeleneVenizelos
The part that really is unbalanced in my opinion is the fact every statistic and effect from these statistics has increased, except healing power and mana. We now need potency materia to have the cures we had with 174 MND pre-patch, same for MP materia and our now much dwindled MP pools. I appreciate that not every mage dedicated the lion's share of their points into MND, however for those who did, the difference is very steep.
The part that really wound me up is my naked Botanist has only 64 less MP than my Conjurer does with the same pre-1.19 setup, which included Claret's Coif and Breeches. I can't be the only one who finds that slightly ridiculous considering it's not even possible to cast any magic on Botanist. :(
I have adjusted, as I always will. It's just further to Mahayana's thoughts and it felt relevant to share it. :)