So right now, people can waltz in, fight some random mob and get some very good gear, equal or higher to the AS gear. Of course, a bunch of people are pissed about it.
I know 3.1 just came out but I'd like to assume that in 3.2, Diadem will receive some treatment to adjust with the Ilvl change.
I have an idea concerning that.
We currently have i150, i180 and i210 from Diadem. If we go along the trends, we will get another tier. However what if the highest drop is still 210 and has a little something to push it further?
I suggest the following: Introduce a new type of equipment, similar to the relic weapon yet simpler. A gear we can upgrade through actions in the Diadem.
Say you beat Brachiosaurus. It drops a mighty gold chest! You open it, you obtain the usual pink gear, yadda yadda. But lo and behold! A yellow gear is also among the loot! Upon closer inspection, it is very similar to its pink counterpart except they slapped the name Mysterious before the actual name (like Mysterious Mistbreak Hat of casting). You win the roll on it. yay! but whats so different about it?
Next time you go exploring the Diadem, a new NPC will appear at the little post place thing. You talk to that individual and he tells you that he can upgrade any mysterious item, assuming you complete his objectives (chosen at random, dependent on Ilvl of the gear) So lets say you desire to upgrade your shiny new yellow i210 hat. You lose it while it is upgraded. You see that he requires you to beat 5 specific Rank 5 Monsters, kill 4 specific rank 4 and discover a buried treasure chest. You complete these objectives, return to the NPC and give you back your item, now ilvl 220 (or 215, that could work too)
Now what SE could do, is cap the upgrades to match the raid gear but make the requirements harder and harder to complete in the time limit (the requirements i put up there are nothing). So say ilvl caps at 230 in 3.2, you could upgrade your gear all the way to 230!
and say you don't fulfill the requirements in time, you only get your item back, and lose the current upgrade progress.
It is my belief that this would promote finding a group to play with, give a decent grind to players who like it and keep Diadem relevant!
If it is implemented, I expect the requirements to be strict and hard.
Also, add Gathering and crafting gear so they could upgrade it as well!
TLDR: Upgrade system with random conditions. Allows more variety in gear.
Thoughts?
Diadem idea for 3.2.
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11-13-2015, 12:44 AMsoulofrebirthDiadem idea for 3.2.
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11-13-2015, 12:46 AMRisvertasashi
Not a bad idea, IMO. But one way or another, I think the ilvl should step with whatever the current gear cap is... otherwise everyone will just use upgraded token gear.
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11-13-2015, 12:52 AMsoulofrebirth
That's the thing, token gear takes a few weeks due to tome cap. In this case, you could have it by the first week if you have a pretty damn good team and some actual good people in DF/alliance.
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11-13-2015, 01:20 AMRisvertasashi
That's the nature of RNG gating. Developers set an expectation of how long it will take on average, but of course there will be a lucky few that have far better outcomes. And, of course, some that have far, far worse ones.
...Which is part of why today's MMOs are so built around token systems, and your idea works similarly. Biggest downside I can think of off hand would be that it takes more development time. -
11-13-2015, 02:05 AMFelis
But next diadem update will be in 3.3, not 3.2
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11-13-2015, 02:19 AMsoulofrebirthReally? I did not know that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Felis
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11-13-2015, 02:27 AMzosia
Some of the diadem pieces have much higher effective item level than 215 or 220.
With the right rolls, some of this gear will have the potential to be effectively 225 or maybe even 230. Don't need to upgrade gear to ilvl230 when it potentially is already in the game. -
11-13-2015, 02:54 AMRisvertasashiYeah those pictures are turning out to be photoshopped...Quote:
Originally Posted by zosia
Anyways, having a good chunk of offstats is not +20ilvls powerful. -
11-13-2015, 03:03 AMzosiaUmm.... pentamelded accessories would like to have a word with you. Also, Kiramu bard gear too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Risvertasashi
Melding can boost effective ilvls quite a bit. Melded gear was 10 effective ilvls higher without even blinking an eye. I wonder how much 50+ extra stat points (something I have seem myself) will boost ilvl. -
11-13-2015, 03:30 AMRisvertasashiAnd they're going away.Quote:
Originally Posted by zosia
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11-13-2015, 03:35 AMXairos
This is interesting as, in reality, the question is how to make Diadem relevant after the ilvl increase in the outside world.
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11-17-2015, 05:47 PMGeologo
I tought to the "level your gear" idea too, but with a different pattern x)
1. You beat a star monster and find your fancy coeurl-dotted colibry pink hat with +30 crit +8 Det + 6 Acc, very sad because it is ilv 210 and you really want to run around the world with it. What to do?
2. Go and keep killing mobs until you drop another headgear for the same classes. (this time it has +10 Crit +42 Det)
3. Now you can use the second gear to power up a stat of the first one.
Not a direct swap but an average among those.
an example. you want mor Det, so at the end of the process your colibry pink hat will have +30 Crit +25 Det + 6 Acc
( 8 + 42 ) / 2
So you can slowly bring it near to all stat capped.
For the ones who will complain with this last sentece, I'll just remember that you can already obtain it. -
11-17-2015, 05:52 PMDeezee
If Diadem remains a competitive way to gear your character even while the next raid is brand new that will have a real big impact on the amount of people who are motivated to even bother trying to run difficult content.
Diadem was supposed to be part of the regular "catch-up" cycle that happens at the mid-point of any raid season (the "odd numbered patches," 2.1, 2.3, 2.5, and now 3.1, 3.3, and so on) but with how they've implemented it it's strangely become the best way to gear that's ever existed. If Diadem is updated every single patch cycle to remain a viable way to reach BiS then that will have significant consequences on the willingness to run all sorts of other content.
We're not even a week into the new patch and people are already complaining about how dead stuff like Expert Roulette and Void Ark was by the end of the week. Give it a month and see how dead everything else is. Gating things behind RNG is not a sufficient deterrent from preventing people from running it until they get what they want - Atma FATEs should've proven that to you already - and if every other gearing alternative is gated behind weekly lockouts or weekly lockouts on top of skill/finding 7 other dedicated people to wipe/learn/clear/farm with, then it doesn't take rocket science or calculus to see what will become of that. -
11-17-2015, 06:13 PMCulfinrandir
The problem that has existed ever since 2.1-ish is that new dungeon gear is almost always a step behind the gear introduced in the same patch. For example, gear in the two dungeons that came with 3.1 is pretty much glamour. It shouldn't be like that if they want to slow progression whilst continuing to keep interest.
Even Void Ark gear is arguably out of date to those who concentrate on ilevel rather than maximising secondary stats. As a result only Diadem i210 & upgraded ESO gear came with this patch. It seems a shame that much of the work done by developers, more so by designers, is stepped over. -
11-17-2015, 06:44 PMGeologo
But for a 3.2 The Diadem I would like to see grearet adjustment and new "content" implementation x)
Few Example:
1) Some Large FATEs, chained FATEs and/or hidden FATEs around the Map that upon completion earn you directly Spoils / Gold Coffer maybe few Tomestone.
Let gatherer be useful for the completion of most of those fate too, making FATEs like "Is it Fall Yet?" where both killing Trents and harvesting Botanist node will make the fate end.
2) Leave the uncleared objectives up even after you completed the first 3, any additional objective will earn something (Coffer/spoils/Tomestone/strange potions that make u stonk against S/dunno xD)
3) Set some NPC around the map that require your help, like some kind of quests inside The Diadem that you will lose when it end, like Aether Currents.
Some of they can ask your help to be escorted, some can ask you to save their vanu vanu baby kidnappped by a stupid Sanuwa, a painter can ask to find some Vistas for his painting or a paleontologist can require to follow with you the footstep of a strange dinosaur.
Those quest are party shared, and you can avoid them, but some of them, apart from the completion reward, can trigger S monster (like the "strange dinosaur"), FATEs, give you special consumabe items that make something in that The Diadem istance faster even like poisoning powder for some specific monster kind that tick HARD, medicine that give you the 3rd LB Bar or make it charge faster, the ability to find unspoiled gathering nodes with even just an heavily increase amount of items.
4) Sad to say, but even without the possibility to join in progress, allow to vote kick, losing a member is painful for the party but sometime you lost them since the beginning cause they fly away and start fishing alone in a safe spot still greeding all and ignoring you at all. This has to be stopped.
I'm not against the gathering in this content, I like it here and I wuold like to see more cohoperative like I proposed above, but acting selfish in a party wide content is very annoying because 1 player alone can stop an entire party.
More ideas after! :D
But basically I'm tring to make people roaming more instead of gather to the dino island fo 80 min to zerg the same enemies ._.
LET'S EXPLORE! :D -
11-17-2015, 07:35 PMNeophyteI guess there is no pentamelded gear which is better than raidgear, beside two exceptions: ACC for healers and dual-mainstat-gear for tanks (patched out in 3.2 I think).Quote:
Originally Posted by zosia
Kirimu gear is from 2.x. And 2.x had much higher stat-weights (highest in 3.x is 0,22 for BRD CRIT and average is about 0,15.. in 2.x every class had two offstats around 0,2-0,3... BRD even had 0,32 on DET and 0,34 on CRIT ). But that's over, off-stats are much weaker now.
Let's say the best off-stat is weighted with 0,2*mainstat. Then 50+ points equals about 10 points main stat (e.g. 50 CRIT equals 7,35 INT for SMN or 11 DEX for BRD).Quote:
Melding can boost effective ilvls quite a bit. Melded gear was 10 effective ilvls higher without even blinking an eye. I wonder how much 50+ extra stat points (something I have seem myself) will boost ilvl.
You get +7 mainstat from 190 to 200 and +8 mainstat from 200 to 210.
So you can assume that yo'll get +9+10=19 mainstat from 210 to 230, which is equal to about 95 points off-Stat (with 0,2 weight).
But don't Forget that even if the ilvl 230 item has less different offstats, they'll have off-stats higher than the actual ilvl210 off-stat caps.
An INT 120, CRIT 120 + DET or SS ~80 would beat any item with INT 101, CRIT ~90, DET ~90 and SS ~90. All stat weights calculated with enormous 0,2(!!!), so the ilvl210 wouldn't come as close as that in reality. -
11-17-2015, 10:53 PMSunako
I think ilvl will jump 30 ilvl because there is alex normal gear as well. 220 from normal, 230 from tomes and 240 from new savage. If you compare law and eso gear, it have 30 ilvl jump too.