What Happened to the Diadem Discussion Thread?

The thread was either deleted or moved. What's going on? O_O.

I noticed a bunch of posts disappearing. I guess the mods eventually decided the entire thread had to go.

It was probably deleted due to it starting as a "doom n gloom" thread, which will always be removed eventually

I was on page 6 to 7 an pam! Error msg.
was full of hate anyways.

In any case, this seems to be pretty important when you have a large audience complaining or trying to understand why it's like this.

I hope it wasn't deleted when there are very relevant information there coming from the community (from both parties).

And here I was wanting to see my addition to my signature and looking for my last post and wondering where did it go...;X

what are people complaining about this time? horizontal instead of vertical gearprogression? lmao

Too much realness probably.

When you have a thread that's full of hatefulness what do you expect its one thing to criticize something but when people start with the attacking its going to get deleted.

The one that was titled "The Death of FFXIV" or something? I'm not surprised it's gone with the level of vitriol that was in it.

Any thread that involves wailing about THE DOOM OF FFXIV!!! is living on borrowed time to start with. To be fair, the thread was basically just "Grrrr how dare those filthy casuals have 210 gear like me!"

raiders have their 210 weapons, which casuals wont get until 3.15

so they are still superior gearwise and theres zero reason to cry about anything yet

Isn't the gear pic fake anyway?

death is not a light word, especially when the thread itself filled with hate and nonsense

The doom thread aside, the gear progression could use a little bit of improvement. If diadem drops i210, Savage should have been i215 to make it relevant for a little bit longer.

I am also baffled with the weekly tomestone cap. One would expect that as the gear gets older, the cap would be regularly increasing till it is removed.

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Originally Posted by ServerCollaps

what are people complaining about this time? horizontal instead of vertical gearprogression? lmao

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That people can get good gear outside of raid
Like everytime at the start of an odd numbered patch

Hopefully the bug where only 3/4's of the party could get in (and only have one minute remaining on the instance timer) gets fixed (in the next scheduled maint), this is unreal.

Even better if the 2h cooldown is removed, it's entirely unnecessary.

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Originally Posted by adn

Any thread that involves wailing about THE DOOM OF FFXIV!!! is living on borrowed time to start with. To be fair, the thread was basically just "Grrrr how dare those filthy casuals have 210 gear like me!"

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Originally Posted by ServerCollaps

raiders have their 210 weapons, which casuals wont get until 3.15

so they are still superior gearwise and theres zero reason to cry about anything yet

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Originally Posted by Felis

That people can get good gear outside of raid
Like everytime at the start of an odd numbered patch

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I think it has more to do with how it is possible for the Diadem Gear to actually be better than the raid gear.

This was a picture posted in the deleted thread: http://i.imgur.com/FBNFi3D.png

The Diadem gear in this situation is better than the 210 Esoteric and the 210 Alexander Savage pieces. The sum of its secondary stats total to 196 while the Esoteric and Alexander Savage pieces total to 160 and 159 respectively.

Continuing from my previous post:

It is definitely a legitimate concern as if the gear obtained in Diadem can be better, it invalidates the amount of work raiders put into obtaining their gear.The issue isn't that everyone can get 210 pieces; the issue is that everyone can get gear that is better than end game raid gear. End game raid gear should always have the best gear because it is the most difficult content. I don't even raid and I agree with the complaints, though that may be because I have friends who raid and thus know the amount of work they put into it.

Again continuing from my previous post because character limit:

The secondary stats on Diadem gear should not be able to go that high; the maximum the secondary stats should be allow to have should be something like 120/the number of secondary stats. So the item in the picture I inked, should have at most, 30 in each of those secondary stats. If it only had 3 secondary stats it can go up to 40, and if it had 2 it can go up to 60.

As it stands, there is little reason to do anything other than Diadem because the potential of the Diadem gear is just too high.

A catch up patch simply doesn't mean releasing gear that is better than end game raid gear.

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Originally Posted by Yahallo

Again continuing from my previous post because character limit:

The secondary stats on Diadem gear should not be able to go that high; the maximum the secondary stats should be allow to have should be something like 120/the number of secondary stats. So the item in the picture I inked, should have at most, 30 in each of those secondary stats. If it only had 3 secondary stats it can go up to 40, and if it had 2 it can go up to 60.

As it stands, there is little reason to do anything other than Diadem because the potential of the Diadem gear is just too high.

A catch up patch simply doesn't mean releasing gear that is better than end game raid gear.

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use edit to bypass character limit.

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Originally Posted by Yahallo

Again continuing from my previous post because character limit:

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You can just edit your post to bypass the 1000 character limit.

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Originally Posted by Yahallo

Continuing from my previous post:

It is definitely a legitimate concern as if the gear obtained in Diadem can be better, it invalidates the amount of work raiders put into obtaining their gear.The issue isn't that everyone can get 210 pieces; the issue is that everyone can get gear that is better than end game raid gear. End game raid gear should always have the best gear because it is the most difficult content. I don't even raid and I agree with the complaints, though that may be because I have friends who raid and thus know the amount of work they put into it.

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there are no weapons, so it isnt better then endgame raid gear at all

everyone has the same chances on obtaining everything plus raiders have 210 weapons on top of that. that always makes them superior to non-raiders

btw raider usually tend to cry that they dont have nothing to do after clearing a raid, now SE gave them better gear which is worth to subscribe for and they still complain on mass
sry but the game isnt made for a 1% minority

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Originally Posted by Felis

That people can get good gear outside of raid
Like everytime at the start of an odd numbered patch

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Not quite.

What you got in previous cases was raid exclusive gear upgrade items becoming available from other avenues (i.e. Hunts and 24 man content). So non raiders only got upgraded tome gear. In 3.1, you now get the above plus a new set of gear which depending on luck can be better than both Gordian and Esoterics, available through relatively less effort.

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Originally Posted by Yahallo

I think it has more to do with how it is possible for the Diadem Gear to actually be better than the raid gear.

This was a picture posted in the deleted thread: http://i.imgur.com/FBNFi3D.png

The Diadem gear in this situation is better than the 210 Esoteric and the 210 Alexander Savage pieces. The sum of its secondary stats total to 196 while the Esoteric and Alexander Savage pieces total to 160 and 159 respectively.

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Pardon me if I'm incorrect but didn't someone calculate that the chance of getting a piece of gear that's perfectly itemized is absurdly low? Like, 1.5% or something?

If that's the case then I think it's fine. It's going to take a LOT of time for someone to potentially even see a piece of gear that's BiS and it's probably going to take all the way to 3.2 for somebody doing Diadem to put together a full set of BiS or BiS equivalent gear from it.

Also, high ilvl gear isn't going to make A4S easy to clear. You have to be good at this game and know how to play your class. Having full diadem 210 gear isn't going to mean you can waltz in and one-shot A4S for a free gobwalker mount.

I think the real issue here is that Alex Savage is just not fun to do compared to Diadem, which is way more fun while rewarding the player more frequently, potentially with a big jackpot if you manage to get that 1% BiS item drop. They need to make Alex Savage MORE rewarding, not make Diadem less rewarding.

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Originally Posted by ServerCollaps

there are no weapons, so it isnt better then endgame raid gear at all

everyone has the same chances on obtaining everything plus raiders have 210 weapons on top of that. that always makes them superior to non-raiders

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Not all raiders have beat AS4. They either gave up on AS3, or beat AS3 recently (before the patch) and are going onto AS4. I don't have my 210 weapon yet. The relics will come sooner than later, so what's the point of AS4 anyways. So why bother with Living Liquid, just get your gear from Diadem easily. I don't mind having more options as I support horizontal progression but this isn't how it should be done, the harder content should still provide the best gear. People keep getting good stats, even from Normal mode from what I've seen. To balance this, getting good 210 pieces (but not as good as Savage ones) from Diadem should need having to do Hard Mode or something akin to a higher difficulty, but still not as hard as Savage, else it completely makes Savage rewards worthless. If they are going to be as powerful as Savage then the content difficulty should reflect it. If it's just a catch up content then why even bother playing/doing endgame and even more so raids at all? You could just be waiting all the time for catch up patches anyways.. so it is a legitimate concern.

Equal gear in a horizontal, "catch-up" patch? Understandable.

Better gear, based on RNG, replacing everything that raiders have worked for (besides weapon, but that will be gone soon too, with the new relic)? Completely infuriating.

As a raider, I'm content to see non-raiders have their catch-up patch... But after countless hours spent beating raids for my own BiS gear--to have it completely replaced by RNG-nonsense is infuriating.

Any old LOTRO players around? Remember the BiS gold Horse Lords jewellery from landscape mobs? That was the beginning of the end there, and--when the end came--my raid team came together to FFXIV. We've seen when devs don't listen to their player base--I sincerely hope SE takes note of the many complaints (including many deleted forum posts!) and takes heed. Many upset people right now...

There is now an exploratory missions sub forum under gameplay, the thread in question was likely moved there.

the topic did NOT get deleted, and is in fact still existing at :
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...Leeches/page14

However, I assume that SE just doesn't want people talking bad about their new baby. It seems wierd to move it to where basically no one will really see it. XD

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Originally Posted by Eidolon

the topic did NOT get deleted, and is in fact still existing at :
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...Leeches/page14

However, I assume that SE just doesn't want people talking bad about their new baby. It seems wierd to move it to where basically no one will really see it. XD

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Not the thread they're talking about the one they're talking about was called Diadem- The Death of FFXIV. It got deleted becasue people were being vile.

And as for the reason thats on page 14 is becasue it was moved to the correct subforum
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/f...atory-Missions

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Originally Posted by Eidolon

the topic did NOT get deleted, and is in fact still existing at :
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...Leeches/page14

However, I assume that SE just doesn't want people talking bad about their new baby. It seems wierd to move it to where basically no one will really see it. XD

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This isn't the thread OP was referring to.

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Originally Posted by ServerCollaps

there are no weapons, so it isnt better then endgame raid gear at all.

now SE gave them better gear which is worth to subscribe for

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Perfect example of choosing arguments conveniently. Too bad you did it in one post. It's lacking good sense to say the least.

I don't think it's a case of better gear than raid gear. It's more about the content which provides it. I feel this concern isn't misplaced at all. Unfortunately many people got carried away with their emotions. Not a good choice when you want something to change.

I'm pretty sure this topic is on SE's radar by now though. It just feel weird to get the best gear (outside of a weapon) doing hunts.

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Originally Posted by Pluvia

it was moved to the correct subforum

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It's a soft form of cencorship, the Exploration sub-forum is like most sub-forums more for information than discussion.

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Originally Posted by Jynx

It's a soft form of cencorship, the Exploration sub-forum is like most sub-forums more for information than discussion.

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Its not really it still shows up on general and says where it was moved to it hasn't been deleted so how is it censored if people can't bother to look at the forums other then General Discussion its them being lazy

People scream censorship without really knowing what it means.

Which thread are you referring to? There were quite a few, and many were moved not too long ago to http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/f...atory-Missions

They're talking about a thread called something like "Diadem - The Death of FFXIV" or something to that effect. It degraded into a "Casual vs Hardcore" argument if I'm remembering it correctly. Honestly, I'm glad it's deleted. Was just full of a bunch of unneeded vitriol.

Oh that one. Figured that it would go into the direction it did. The expedience of its demise is a bit surprising though (though if this is the normal rate at which unsavory threads disappear, I probably just don't pay attention).