Diadem Improvement Suggestions

So, within the first day of release, some glaringly obvious things have come up with the way Diadem DF is set up.

The goal of this thread is to not only provide feedback for SE, but things players can do to allevieate these problems, and maybe dispell some misconceptions about the content (since it is new and we don't know everything about it yet).

Some of the issues include:

1. Group goals not aligning, causing tension.

2. Exploitation of group by afking.

3. Exploitation of group through gathering.

4. Improper group composition due to gathering/combat mixes.

5. Ability to troll by not rolling on loot.

1. While there are both gathering and combat criteria to complete the basic goal there, issues arise when a you have gatherers there for their mats, and people there for combat. This would not be as large of an issue if you needed less credit for your kills. Or if everyone had multiple classes.

Having gatherers mixed in makes it take longer to kill marks, meaning it takes longer to spawn the NBs, as well as making it harder to get credit for them. On the flip side, people who want to gather need protection for some of their nodes.

This leads to very obvious tension of a compromise cannot be reached.

2. Fairly obvious. You can join and do nothing at all, not even gather, roll on all loot and not be removed. ( I really hope that no one bothers arguing this point)

3. This is based off an example I ran through today. You can join a group, and do nothing but gather. And roll on all loots regardless. You can sit on an island with no monsters, and essentially afk will getting all the loot from everyone else, while people are unable to get anything you gather, aside from the odd chests. This leads to other problems, such as number 4.

4. When someone switches to Gathering, you not only lose that person from the combat group, but you lose their role. This isn't so bad, if others can switch to a class you need. But if no one in your group has a Tank, or Healers, this really screws over the rest of the group, making it impossible to complete the combat side of things.

5. Most likely to come from an AFKer only rolling on 210 loot. If there are more than nine chests (open or closed) at anytime, when a tenth appears the first will disappear. I didn't even really want to mention this one as I don't want to see it become common. Some of the solutions below would solve this. Also if it is automatically distributed upon being removed. (not sure if that currently happens, if you know, please chime in.)

Some improvements/solutions:

1. Well the obvious is to join with a premade, but this is aimed more for those who don't have a premade available. Also most premades will exclude gatherers, making it harder for that side.

2. Make it so that all mats gathered can be rolled on by the group.

I find this only fair, since a gatherer can obtain anything the combat group is working on. If you are in a team, share the rewards. This also alleviates a bit people intentionally joining to leech a group. Right now, the gatherer benefits far more from the system than the combat.

3. Make it possible to remove players.

This will be controversial, and I agree would favor groups who want straight combat. But with the ability to just afk for loot, some solution is required. It solves that issue. I don't know if this is a good solution, but maybe someone can suggest a modified kick, such as the player stays in the Diadem, just not in the group, and then an in progress player can join.

4. Allow solo gathering queues.

This would allow anyone who wants to just gather to not be forced to piggy back and then diminish a group.

5. Make it so you can only loot on what you take part in.

Not sure if it would be possible to include with the current system. But come on, doesn't it seem just a little weird that you can exclude yourself from the group and still receive ilvl 210 gear?

6. Communication and consenses within the group.

This is obviously on of the main things to try. But most of the issues seen arise when this would have failed regardless. See afkers for example.


I will be updating this as the thread goes along, but I have to run for the moment. Any suggestions would be helpful, becasue right now I see the set up causing more poison than Hunts. Please leave feedback on other issues you encounter.

Gameplay related improvements:

1. Making the group work together to achieve a common goal:
As I suggested in another thread, maybe we could get the classes to work together. One option is to have the combat classes fight through a bunch of monsters to reach a node, upon being gathered, that node wakes a Star rank monster.

Being able to change jobs is a double edged sword too. Since you can change jobs, if you have it leveled, everyone can roll 'Need'. Which kind of screws over players who came in and ONLY want to lot for gear that they came as, versus someone who has everything at 60 and rolls Need on everything. They should make it so if you change jobs, the items you previously rolled 'Need' on, are reset and you can then only roll Greed on them.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jonnycbad

Being able to change jobs is a double edged sword too. Since you can change jobs, if you have it leveled, everyone can roll 'Need'. Which kind of screws over players who came in and ONLY want to lot for gear that they came as, versus someone who has everything at 60 and rolls Need on everything. They should make it so if you change jobs, the items you previously rolled 'Need' on, are reset and you can then only roll Greed on them.

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Yes, this is a difficult one, even with your method, you could be one class rolling need on 150/180 gear, but when 210 drops anyone would switch for the need, and take the loss on the others. Maybe a way of having to roll for the class you killed it with, but that could take too many resources to implement.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Whiteroom

Yes, this is a difficult one, even with your method, you could be one class rolling need on 150/180 gear, but when 210 drops anyone would switch for the need, and take the loss on the others. Maybe a way of having to roll for the class you killed it with, but that could take too many resources to implement.

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You already can't switch classes and roll need.

Once the chest is opened, whatever class you were is what you can need on. You can't change after the fact and suddenly need

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ashelia_Ferron

You already can't switch classes and roll need.

Once the chest is opened, whatever class you were is what you can need on. You can't change after the fact and suddenly need

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Is that so, I hadn't tested, but someone on the forums was claiming you could.

Hi, i just had an awful experience right now. Joined a pre-formed party and entered Diadem Normal, and found out that during all 80 minutes of mission, we were the only party on the whole map. That made impossible for us to kill the Star-ranked boss. Suggestion: make the "duty finder" system for that work in a way that we get at least 3 parties in to start, like at the raids.

Or actually if we could pre-form with minimum of 3 parties and set objectives (gathering or equipment farming) it would be even better.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NimlothUndomiel

Hi, i just had an awful experience right now. Joined a pre-formed party and entered Diadem Normal, and found out that during all 80 minutes of mission, we were the only party on the whole map. That made impossible for us to kill the Star-ranked boss. Suggestion: make the "duty finder" system for that work in a way that we get at least 3 parties in to start, like at the raids.

Or actually if we could pre-form with minimum of 3 parties and set objectives (gathering or equipment farming) it would be even better.

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You can currently enter with alliances I believe, through using an FC with three airships. I don't believe you can from the landing. I think they did this intentionally to push FC activities.

That sounds like a pretty bad experience though, I wonder if your instance got bugged out somehow. Anyone else experience this?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Whiteroom

You can currently enter with alliances I believe, through using an FC with three airships. I don't believe you can from the landing. I think they did this intentionally to push FC activities.

That sounds like a pretty bad experience though, I wonder if your instance got bugged out somehow. Anyone else experience this?

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Yeah, but what if my FC isn't doing that for some reason? I mean, people who, by any reasons, need or prefer to do this with pre-formed parties outside their FCs should be able to get in a map with more people on. I've got surprised since its a fresh content, there should be a lot of people doing it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Whiteroom

Is that so, I hadn't tested, but someone on the forums was claiming you could.

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I can confirm this. A DRG from my FC came with us on a run, we had cleared out a spot and there was a node for him to gather at so he swapped to his DoL. While he gathered the node we killed a few of the other monsters in the area, a DRG piece dropped, he swapped back to DRG and it wouldn't allow him to Need roll only Greed.

I feel like Diadem would work better if they treated it less like an instanced dungeon and more like an open world environment. If you want to go there solo and gather you can, but you won't get rewards from Notorious Monsters unless you fight them yourself or join a party. If a person joins a party and gets asked to switch to a battle class, but they refuse to do so or otherwise doesn't help, they can be kicked from the party. Being able to go in solo could lead to a situation in which a party has members with different timers on how long they can stay, but they talked about possibly removing that timer anyway.

Been having problems with people leaving, losing a couple members really does screws over the rest of party, usually too difficult to get the better chests when such happens. Cant really think of any real solution, maybe allowing people to summon their chocobos may help a bit. I assume not many would want to come in with lost time or an already diminishing party but at best there could be join in progress with some kind of added incentive, like brass/silver spoils. Only other thing I could think of is allowing to queues based at certain times, 30mins, 60mins, and usual 90mins, so sort of like in progress checkpoints for those that dont have the time for a full run or something of that sort.

Everyone on the map converging on one spot and just zerg farming is not fun, and it's not fair on groups where someone DCs or leaves, who are then almost unable to get anything. Honestly, I'd like to see a mechanic where islands exhaust themselves after a certain number of spawns and become quiet, and for that exhaustion to happen faster the more people are fighting in an area, so groups are forced to split up and find a new hotspot for farming.

I'd also like to see the stat budget on gear capped so it can't be better than BiS. As good as, I can live with. Better, not so much.

Alright, you want to know how to improve diadem?

Focus on GATHERING.

Yes, gathering, the thing that will keep people coming back long after i230 gear comes out.

Put both kinds of spoils in the gathering nodes. Put random rare mats, like venture or gardening shits in the nodes at a low drop rate. Increase the steel spoil drop rate. Make gathering the primary reason people go to diadem.

Not only will this help gatherers, this will also help HUNTERS, because S ranks will be less of a complete goddamn mess. I don't think anyone actually has fun at these glorified hunts.