The Diadem (Kill credit is very difficult to trigger) resulting in no chest drops

Inside the Diadem (normal) our group and many other groups in the zone continually found that some of the groups were not getting kill credit and seeing treasure chest drops. Usually only one or two of the full groups would get credit.

This NEEDs adjusting. This was extremely unfair to groups with healers who spent most of the fights healing everyone including other groups (healing seems REALLY terrible at triggering the chest drop flag).

Likewise some groups with people doing gathering couldn't ever get credit for anything. Again this is rather unfair, they entered the zone they should get credit.

Please take a look at this and FIX it asap. Again, we had near full groups MISS credit with 80% DPS uptime on mobs... this is insane.

--- Update! ---

The last defect filed on this is here and has been ACCEPTED by development: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...g-Chest-Credit

It was accepted after our FC validated last night in Diadem hard with our 24 man group that if we stay away from all other groups we had zero problems with chest drops. Even when we had a group missing two people (gathering/afk) they continued to get all chest drops without any issues. Likewise we did not have issues with dots going nutty or not showing up. We'll continue to do all of our runs like this until SE puts in changes. We were quite efficient too and secured 81 kills, 5 NM kills and 5-6 gold chests which appears to be similar to what zerg DPS groups are seeing on our server. Killing was slower but since every group was getting 100% secure it was a non issue.

Again there were no issues when one or two people were gone from the groups when only three groups are clearing an area. And we didn't have to focus on DPS. We were able to easily off tank adds, control groups away from a star mob, keep aggro off healers, heal other groups etc. The experience was what I would have expected as fun and optimal. We did this on the bottom left island. Next time we'll try a Dino island away from the other groups. So you can definitely avoid the problem without having more "leet DPS" or having all 8 people active. You just can't have too many groups in the same spot causing the damage thresholds to break for the lower damage groups due to the lack of a scaling threshold when too many groups attack the same mob.

My group experienced this last night also. We participated in 3 NMs (2 S, 1 V) and received no credit for any of them. This is very frustrating as we arrived as quickly as we could and the NM was still above 70% health each time. The first one I offtanked a lot of adds that had been pulled onto the groups that were there to ensure our victory (so that the healers didn't get killed). But our dps was on the NM the entire time, no one received credit in our group, yet a group from our alliance did get credit. We had everyone in combat classes and everyone was present for the fight. If the zone is designed to hold 9 groups, 9 groups should be able to get credit. Otherwise, let premade alliances have their own instance so we aren't fighting people for credit.

I spent a lot of time making sure that we had 3 airships ready for Diadem. To organize an alliance, get everyone into the same zone and then find that we were not getting credit was a very frustrating experience. I hope that when we unlock Hard (also frustrating that even with all exploration zones unlocked I still have to resend my airship to those zones and wait), that we do not run into these same issues or I will be SEVERELY disappointed by the content that I was most looking forward to.

-Stiggie Vurz, Time Paradox, Gilgamesh

World: Exodus
My group had this happen as well. Called a rank 5, was there from the beginning and no chest.

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Originally Posted by Stiggie

I spent a lot of time making sure that we had 3 airships ready for Diadem. To organize an alliance, get everyone into the same zone and then find that we were not getting credit was a very frustrating experience. I hope that when we unlock Hard (also frustrating that even with all exploration zones unlocked I still have to resend my airship to those zones and wait), that we do not run into these same issues or I will be SEVERELY disappointed by the content that I was most looking forward to.

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Yeah it was pretty terrible as we had organized a group of 24 and WE were having trouble getting credit on our kills (which is freaking nuts). Its like if you don't have perfect damage coming from 5 DPS at 90% uptime you risk missing credit... Which is just idiotic.

This needs a fix ASAP.

Happened to us too! :( Were fighting V and S ranks from start to finish yet got no credit ; ; we were wailing on it too

Well that's interesting. They moved this from the bug report forums to here for more information.

i think they said only damage counts for the reward, not building aggro. so healing does not count at all? http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post3425558

we had the same problem, after 2 of your DDs left we had really problems to get the chests.

I'm not really sure what they expect. What I think we're seeing is where three groups probably did 30% of the damage (for a total of 90%) and where a fourth weaker group only did 10% and then doesn't get credit. Except that the border for where this problem is occurring seems somewhat unreasonable given the number of groups contributing damage.

The primary problem I've seen is that once someone looses a group member (and are down to 7) and they are traveling to a newly popped mob. But we've seen the problem with groups of 8 when traveling to a new mob as-well. The problem seems less painful when you're all on the ground clearing an island out (even missing one group member). So our FC is compensating by staying together and clearing the caves/island ourselves and essentially just focusing on what we pop.

Still I think the threshold is too low given the number of groups which can participate in a kill, the random nature of the pops, and the fact that a full well coordinated group will essentially hedge out smaller less organized (or incomplete groups) even though they are still contributing a notable chunk of the damage (just not enough).

It isn't a great system at present. It doesn't really promote co-operation between parties.

- When an S rank pops, you are basically forced to have your group focus it down and ignore everything else! Anything you do to try and help other teams, such as getting aggro off lower rank monsters that are running rampant or healing players from other parties, will only reduce your own damage output and make your group less likely to get any loot.

- Supposedly, whichever team pulls gets full credit. This means that when an S spawns, you are encouraged to pull it first then call for backup, rather than waiting for everyone to gather. Otherwise, if you find an S rank and wait for people to gather before pulling, you know someone will ninja pull it as soon as they get close enough, and then you need to fight to get credit for your own find!

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Originally Posted by AxelDH

Anything you do to try and help other teams, such as getting aggro off lower rank monsters that are running rampant or healing players from other parties, will only reduce your own damage output and make your group less likely to get any loot.!

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I forgot about this part when I filed the bug report! ZOMFG. I should file it again with this as the main point. This part is TERRIBLE because its completely true. Which ever group gets agro from the stupid adds can often looses credit in larger encounters because of this stupid mess!

I came here this am to either make a topic for it or find one. We had the same problem last night. It was awful. Something really needs to be done about it.

I was about to create a topic about this very issue. We had the same problem last night, three of our dps left in the middle of it and we were just completely useless it felt. The damage we dealt to the mobs just didn't cover any contribution at all. We were gimped and just stood around like melons. Group A got contribution (Being a FULL group and all.) Group B (My group) We were just useless. Due to lacking that bit of dps for any reward whats so ever. Very disappointed about this feature, had high hopes for it when it was first announced.

Luckily we all agreed in the group to finish our objectives, which we did then we left. Didn't really feel like an exploration mission... More of a "watch other people kill mobs while you stand there and gather materials."

Getting claim on the mob does guarantee full credit, yes. It seems to work on the same system that XP from world mobs does--the person with the claim is guaranteed the full XP value, and others that attack the mob get XP if they pass the credit threshold.

That's really the only way to keep getting chests if people drop from your group. It's rather frustrating, because even with a full group, having one person run off to gather can ultimately be enough lost damage on the higher ranked mobs to never get credit for them.

I've filed an updated defect with more information highlighting the core problem of fights with adds. I think the issue crops up primarily when a group is short one DPS and when adds attack during a large confrontation.

there is also the issue of groups with less than 8. if you dont have a full party, you will not be getting a gold chest from star NMs. I have had this issue twice today. someone leaves in 10-15 minutes, and everyone else gets punished because of that.
shouldn't the damage required scale to the number of party members you have? especially since you cant add more members to your group (pre-made) and will have to leave and sit on the 2 hour cooldown

I was noticing this same thing happening with my partner's group last night. There were 7 members at the NM, with the 8th off gathering since the beginning of the session, and yet even with the group only dying once and needing to hoof it back to the fight, they contributed a lot of damage and handled some adds and got NOTHING for it.

I agree, from my own experience as well, that there is zero incentive to heal other groups or help them deal with adds that inevitably pile up and make the fights a nightmare. It also means that, as a healer, getting healing aggro on the adds means I have to blow cooldowns needlessly and run around like I'm trying to MPK other parties with aoes because NO ONE WILL STOP AND HELP for fear of losing out on their precious loot.

There is no cooperation here. Anything that isn't doing damage to the NM is "someone else's problem".

The main thing that really needs to happen is if you claim a mob and there are purple mobs around, hit the purples. If a V/Star rank spawns and you claim it (ie, it goes red) then the tank at the very least should be looking at adds to remove from the fray, and the healers and DPS ideally should kill said adds. There is no reason to stick with the V/Star rank mob once you have it claimed to your party. Maybe all get one hit in just in case you're nervous that the one person who claimed it might die losing your claim on it, but... that's more likely to happen if there is a disorganised mess.

As far as I'm concerned, as a tank, the first thing I do upon noticing we have the claim on a mob is look for other purple mobs that I can tank away from it. And if there are two red mobs, one being a star hunt and one being a random add, I will get that random add and move it away from the fight, while staying in range of my healers, and let everyone else deal with the Star Rank. If I left the mob alone chances are it'd just end up killing one of the healers anyway.

my fc has had this problem a few times when we ran as a group in diadem too it sucks

I've posted YET another defect on the problem. This one is much more detailed including their template:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...27#post3436427

They need to address this issue... otherwise I advice you take your 24 man alliances and fight in a place where NO ONE ELSE IS.

Diadem

It is what I was most excited for in 3.1
Turns out it is horrible

SE fix this please!
Diadem doesn't encourage any DoL, because you will screw over any group you go with since it is a giant DPS race.
Since it is a giant DPS race, it doesn't really help newer players as much as it really should.
It doesn't encourage FC's to organize into 3 groups, because usually at least one gets screwed over.

You know what's even worse? Star or V pops... your team is there. You all go all out crazy, half the people don't even register on the rank's enmity list, in the end... you don't even get a bronze chest. Yeah... real cute at times.

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Originally Posted by Katlyna

Yeah it was pretty terrible as we had organized a group of 24 and WE were having trouble getting credit on our kills (which is freaking nuts). Its like if you don't have perfect damage coming from 5 DPS at 90% uptime you risk missing credit... Which is just idiotic.

This needs a fix ASAP.

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Five DPS? I've experienced it were both healers were in CS a lot of the time & we got nowt whatsoever! Even when we claimed the mob! Something is definitely wrong.

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Originally Posted by Culfinrandir

Five DPS? I've experienced it were both healers were in CS a lot of the time & we got nowt whatsoever! Even when we claimed the mob! Something is definitely wrong.

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Each time i or my PT claimed a mob we always had a drop, so i this you lying or is it me having incorrect information as claim = guaranteed drop.

And the only time i've been having issue with drops is when either one or more persons decide to gather, and/or we have terrible DPS.

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Originally Posted by Blitzace

Each time i or my PT claimed a mob we always had a drop, so i this you lying or is it me having incorrect information as claim = guaranteed drop.

And the only time i've been having issue with drops is when either one or more persons decide to gather, and/or we have terrible DPS.

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Well I was told by the tank (team lead) that our claims were not resulting in chests every time. This was corroborated by other team leaders via shout. I have zero reason to lie as there's absolutely no benefit for me in doing so. It's not as if SE are going to refund the time spent or anything.

I believe claims can be "stolen" if everyone in the party who had threat originally die or go out of range.

What I do know is I'm sick to death of having to apologize to one of our subgroups every time because the system is broken (or extremely stupid).

Had this "problem".
Whole team there but we couldn't get credit on unclaimed mobs... because the dps was abysmally low. People did not know rotations.

I don't consider this something SE need to fix. If anything it should be the incentive people need to actually learn their jobs. I'm glad we actually now have some content that people cannot just coast through doing 200 dps. Healers should be able to prioritize healing and throw in a little dps if/when the opportunity arises, and still meet the check.

They should address the issue of people entering via DF with different goals though (gatherers vs mob killers). If they are going to have it DF, then it shouldn't group people together which have completely separate things they want to do, one of which prevents the other.

tl:dr if you cant meet dps because of bad players, not SE's problem; if you can't meet dps because half your people are gathering, that they should address.

just my 2 gil

Some people just there and sporadic spam some skill so it looks like they are fighting. If you have 2 or more in your group good luck getting credit.

I'd suggest to make easier to get group credit but on the same time punish DPS who are slacking off by give them higher chances for shitty rolls.

SE seriously should consider lower that credit requirement to get chest.
So if two or three players left behind of groups to gather or fishing should be ok to get chest.

Otherwise,player who wants to gather at diadem would never be participated cuz you will be called troll as like a currently occured.

And No idea why SE didn't disignate fate rule in that diadem's fight.

If you weren't kill mobs on premises you couldn't able to get chest.

Resolving issue is simple as piece of cake.

And No idea why SE didn't disignate fate rule in that diadem's fight.

If you weren't kill mobs on premises you couldn't able to get chest.

Resolving issue is simple as piece of cake.

The fact that people are jumping in basically saying this isn't a problem because of their EPIC EPEEN just shows how much of a problem it really is. The current design will fail every time if you get all the groups in a Diadem and cooperate together. Its not a DPS problem but rather a damage threshold issue where each group needs X damage, Mob has Y hit points and, Only Z groups can actually achieve said threshold before other groups dont' get credit. I've seen times where only the group who tagged the mob would get credit because too many groups took an even chunk from a smaller mobs hit points (in hard).

This is a functional problem, which can be reduced by only having 3-4 parties working together max. Or by having more raw DPS (primarily with direct hits and NOT DOTs) than other groups. Again these are all artificial problems where people are contributing and should be getting chests but bad design blocks it.

This happened to me, I was healing my ass off trying to get credit for my team while everyone was flying down to the monsters and we got one bronze coffer from a lowbie mob... >.>. WTF seriously, this isn't like a NM or HNM at all :(.

Good news they have accepted the last bug report! It did not get shot down this time.

Likewise our FC validated last night in Diadem hard with our 24 man group that if we stay away from all other groups we had zero problems with chest drops. Even when we had a group missing two people (gathering/afk) they continued to get all chest drops without any issues. Likewise we did not have issues with dots going nutty or not showing up. We'll continue to do all of our runs like this until SE puts in changes. We were quite efficient too and secured 81 kills, 5 NM kills and 5-6 gold chests which appears to be similar to what zerg DPS groups are seeing on our server. Killing was slower but since every group was getting 100% secure it was a non issue.

Again there were no issues when one or two people were gone from the groups. And we didn't have to focus focus on DPS. We were able to easily off tank adds, control groups away from a star mob, keep agro off healers, heal other groups etc. The experience was what I would have expected as fun and optimal. We did this on the bottom left island. Next time we'll try a Dino island away from the other groups. So you can definitely avoid the problem without having more "leet DPS" or having all 8 people active. You just can't have too many groups in the same spot causing the damage thresholds to break for the lower damage groups due to the lack of a scaling threshold when too many groups attack the same mob.

Another factor with mass groups is people can get knocked off the threat table by provokes done by the other groups. We saw this happening in our last run. There were too many groups on Triceratops so even with everyone attacking you would have people in your group not on the threat table at all. If the person not on was a tank they could provoke and get on but doing so knocks other people off. It really needs to be fixed so everyone can have their contributions counting and their dots counting. Since 9 groups is what can be in a zone then 9 groups need to be able to function even if they all go to the same area.

The issue with credit, is something that can be debated to actually be an issue. If you are not getting credit for mobs, you could perhaps take your party to another location and fight them elsewhere. The map is a giant, you don't need to have everyone go to the same location. It reminds me a lot of the Slaughter mode for PvP when they introduced it.. such a giant map to make use of, but everyone ended up just staying in the center for the entire game.

If they increased the amount of coffers you could find by slaying different kinds of mobs, adding more objectives to slaying and gathering, adding chests and other things that can be interacted with in different parts of the map... heck you could even put FATEs or something, where credit is based just like a FATE and this would encourage players go move around the map.