[dev1200] Why the drastic reduction of prices?

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/26963

I understand why these prices are being reduced in price but aren't you screwing over low level crafters in the process? Now there will be no point in making low level gear because everyone will be able to buy it for usually a much better price. What will crafters under rank 30 really do? With such a limited selection on armor these days you really are hurting those that have found a niche in making low level armor.

While I agree the rank 10-15 armor should be made affordable the rank 20-30 armor shouldn't be. Don't take that away from low level crafters.

1) crafters make like six million jillion of those lower-level items. No one's making money of them
2) the price reducitons are not that drastic
3) the price reductions are in line with the cutbacks in gil rewards from levequests. Most newbie players look for NPC vendors to buy their early gear, hence why they should be more affordable.

Crafters are not being screwed by this. Not every item is available on the NPCs, and just as with the combat classes, the real oppertunity for success is in the higher levels, not the lower ones.

From my experience crafting my own starting armor, the material costs of crafting the items is typically 10-50% of the new NPC prices, which should still leave lots of room for crafters to make a profit.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

1) crafters make like six million jillion of those lower-level items. No one's making money of them
2) the price reducitons are not that drastic
3) the price reductions are in line with the cutbacks in gil rewards from levequests. Most newbie players look for NPC vendors to buy their early gear, hence why they should be more affordable.

Crafters are not being screwed by this. Not every item is available on the NPCs, and just as with the combat classes, the real oppertunity for success is in the higher levels, not the lower ones.

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And this is where I will disagree with you. Some of the items are drastic, when you have a 100k item selling from NPC and they drop it to 20k that is drastic. Like I said in my OP I'm fine with low level gear being sold by NPC for cheap, but come on mid level gear?

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Originally Posted by Khaz

From my experience crafting my own starting armor, the material costs of crafting the items is typically 10-50% of the new NPC prices, which should still leave lots of room for crafters to make a profit.

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Yeah if you farm all of your own materials it is, but time equals money in any MMO. Also now why would I fill my bazaar with items I'm only going to make a small percentage in profit? Instead of providing a service to mid level players I will now need to find another niche until my crafts are higher.

And no I'm not one of those people that overcharge for items.

The highest level gear that had a price reduction appears to be for about level 20. I don't think that is considered mid-level yet. And a lot of those level 20 gears use many of the same materials as level 10 gear still, as far as I can tell from browsing recipes, so having NPCs charge 5x as much was ridiculous to start with.

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Like I said in my OP I'm fine with low level gear being sold by NPC for cheap, but come on mid level gear?

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Mid level gear shouldn't cost 100k. Maybe some reductions were a bit steep, but really, I see no problem with this. Frankly, I don't buy gear off the market at all. I buy the materials to make stuff for myself, because I like crafting and don't like gathering.

Crafting in MMOs is never profitable until you max it out. The fact that you can't make a profit in the mid levels is nothing unusual. It was actually worse in FFXI- since people would only pay much for HQ, for most crafts you generally had to max them out or come close before you could start trying to make money. If you could make money on the way up, it was by selling obscure stuff that's cheap to make but not many people want, or consumables.

Again, you're acting like every single piece of gear in those level ranges is sold by the NPCs. All you have to do is make the stuff that isn't.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Mid level gear shouldn't cost 100k. Maybe some reductions were a bit steep, but really, I see no problem with this. Frankly, I don't buy gear off the market at all. I buy the materials to make stuff for myself, because I like crafting and don't like gathering.

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No where did I say mid level gear should cost 100k. In many MMO's gear from NPC's are always higher then what can be purchased from an AH or Market System. Crafting at any level can be profitable, or should be profitable at any level. If you can't figure out how to make money with crafting at any level then maybe you should take a look at what you are doing wrong.

Again I'm not acting like anything so stop making assumptions. I'm merely posting something that I thought was off, don't be so caustic in your replies. Neither one of us are right or wrong, it's two different opinions no need to be rude.

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Crafting at any level can be profitable, or should be profitable at any level.

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If you bend over backwards to do so, yes. Otherwise, most people synthesize at a loss to reach the highest level faster. THEN they craft profitable items.

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Neither one of us are right or wrong, it's two different opinions no need to be rude.

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I'm not being rude, there is no reason for you to be so defensive.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

If you bend over backwards to do so, yes. Otherwise, most people synthesize at a loss to reach the highest level faster. THEN they craft profitable items.

I'm not being rude, there is no reason for you to be so defensive.

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Yeah and yet you don't have to bend over backwards to make a profit with low level crafts. I'm not going to watch this topic devolve into a pissing contest so I'll leave my perception at the door.

All I'm saying is now there is no point making gear under 30 at all. Period. There was a market because gear is now consumable, but now that market doesn't look like it will be anywhere near as good.

Not everyone is running over to Limsa Lomisa to pick up a level 10 axe. You can still camp Ul'dah and sell stuff just fine.
Relax.

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Originally Posted by Takane

Not everyone is running over to Limsa Lomisa to pick up a level 10 axe. You can still camp Ul'dah and sell stuff just fine.
Relax.

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You wouldn't need to run to Limsa to buy a level 10 axe, you can just buy it from the NPC in the Ul'dah market wards...

No one makes low leveled gear anyways.

Lower leveled people need to get new weapons somehow since the majority of synths being sold are high leveld items.

Who really wants to spend (or CAN for that matter) 50k for a level 18 item? I mean, do people think before they post prices? New people can not afford half the low leveld stuff to begin with.

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Originally Posted by Takane

Not everyone is running over to Limsa Lomisa to pick up a level 10 axe. You can still camp Ul'dah and sell stuff just fine.
Relax.

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Did you miss the fact they are adding NPC's to the battlewards ?

I agree that NPC prices should be quite a bit pricier than buying them from a crafter, in most cases its not hard to find someone to make you an item, so I don't see the issue with low level players not being able to get armor and weapons they need.

I suppose for new players it can be a bit daunting but thats where you get out there and make some money for yourself and make friends.

gear (that turns into materia) is disposable now - we use it long enough to turn it into materia and then get new gear and do it again...

prices need to reflect the fact that gear is disposable now...I am glad they finally do.

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Originally Posted by DeadRiser

No one makes low leveled gear anyways.

Lower leveled people need to get new weapons somehow since the majority of synths being sold are high leveld items.

Who really wants to spend (or CAN for that matter) 50k for a level 18 item? I mean, do people think before they post prices? New people can not afford half the low leveld stuff to begin with.

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I have made a ton of low level gear, for a very long time. It has always sold almost as quick as I make it. Why peoples perception that no one makes low level gear, and no one buys low level gear is beyond me. I'm talking based on experience, there was a demand for it, especially since the changes to optimal gear level.

I've already figured out a new niche, but I still stand by my OP, why such a drastic price reduction on all those items?

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Originally Posted by Technolust

I have made a ton of low level gear, for a very long time. It has always sold almost as quick as I make it. Why peoples perception that no one makes low level gear, and no one buys low level gear is beyond me. I'm talking based on experience, there was a demand for it, especially since the changes to optimal gear level.

I've already figured out a new niche, but I still stand by my OP, why such a drastic price reduction on all those items?

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So people cant get away with overpricing lower level gear because they might be the only one making it. The patch made a few adjustments that prevents prices on certain items from being too high. The better Fingerprints rate and increased area to obtain Karakul fleece are 2 of the other starting improvements.

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Originally Posted by Technolust

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/26963

I understand why these prices are being reduced in price but aren't you screwing over low level crafters in the process? Now there will be no point in making low level gear because everyone will be able to buy it for usually a much better price. What will crafters under rank 30 really do? With such a limited selection on armor these days you really are hurting those that have found a niche in making low level armor.

While I agree the rank 10-15 armor should be made affordable the rank 20-30 armor shouldn't be. Don't take that away from low level crafters.

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Oh no! What will the lower-level crafters do?! I guess they'll...make the same gear and sell it for slightly cheaper than the NPC price, like usual? I'm not sure where the issue is here.

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Originally Posted by Quanta

Oh no! What will the lower-level crafters do?! I guess they'll...make the same gear and sell it for slightly cheaper than the NPC price, like usual? I'm not sure where the issue is here.

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Hehe, the obvious solution to the 'problem' at hand :P

This kind of needed to happen, but it also kind of hurts.

As a new player, I have made about 2/3 of my gil (a little over 150k) making and selling low level items. Some ridiculously overpriced, but then more recently more reasonably priced.

Just looking at the prices though, some of this stuff kind of hurts, not sure how much it's going to hurt though.

Take Bronze Knuckles, for example. 2x bronze ingots, 1x sheep leather, 3 fire and 2 wind shards. To buy the mats from vendors, that would be 4,200 gil, and then the shards ton top of that.

So that's about 1/2 what the cost is from the NPC now. That leaves some space for crafters to move, but, crafting is ultimately quite time consuming. How much will I have to drop my prices now to sell? If they're 8,500g at the vendor, will people be willing to go into the wards to buy them at 8,000? Or will other crafters be undercutting them to the cost of mats?

Who knows. I was about to put up Bronze Knuckles at 7,900 today anyway to undercut someone else. Not sure how much lower I would go to reasonably make a profit.

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Originally Posted by Quanta

Oh no! What will the lower-level crafters do?! I guess they'll...make the same gear and sell it for slightly cheaper than the NPC price, like usual? I'm not sure where the issue is here.

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The "drastic" price changes the OP speaks of probably means that those changes will cut into their profit margins. But at the same time, I don't think it's right for people to be selling low-lowmid level gear for 100k-200k each. These price changes are a decent way for Square to force crafters to sell gear at a reasonable price, since the "free market" isn't adjusting properly to the needs of a low level player.

With the reduction of gil rewards from leves and the inability to pump up the rewards to be profitable by turning in previous leves, players that level aren't going to be easily able to get the money to buy the gear if they remain at inflated prices. They would have to participate in the economy by gathering or crafting. Some people might say "too bad, deal with it", but I don't think players should be forced to go into gathering or crafting unless they want to. Some people just want to hit stuff, some people want to just craft, and some just want to gather.

deal with it

seems low level gear was priced to high in the market wards, its not like if you make low level gear you will be losing money. its more like make low level gear put at a price new players can afford, and give them one less reason to stop playing. i remember i was charged 50k for bronze knuckles in LL. seriously how much did it take to make em?? (i don't know the anser but i bet less than 10k)

There is still a market with dyed low gear. The NPCs sells only undyed gear.

to be honest, he has a point, the costs of low level crafting arent really that low.

consider that at the level you get good sp off a synth, you may fail 1 in 5, (550 exp plus) and the crystal costs, in addition some recipes that use very reusable items, like iron (which you need 8 iron ore to make 3 ingots)

Then also consider you generally have to price at lower than npc prices, and it becomes a lot harder to make enough money to keep synthing.


But we do see why it needed to be done, the truth is not that many people at this point would even bother to craft low level synths, and a non powerleveled person probably doesnt have enough money to buy all the gear for a low level, which is now, a big difference in survivability. People really cant afford even 20k at low levels right now.

Sooo someone has to bite the bullet i suppose. I dont think it will be that much of an issue, until they do ps3 release, then im not so sure it will be a good idea, with all those crafters competing with so a low ceiling in value.

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Originally Posted by Felis

There is still a market with dyed low gear. The NPCs sells only undyed gear.

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This is true, but considering the price of dyes at the moment nobody in their right mine is going to buy a lvl 10 item for 20-50k or more.

You could argue that you should go and gather those dyes but they aren't paticularly plentiful (hence the price in the first place) so the hassle soon outweighs the purpose.

What is going to happen here, is what happened in FF11, certain items will become so easily bought via NPC (or in the case of FF11 there was no way of removing the items) that crafters are going to end up losing money on crafting, not everyone has the time or even wants to go gathering.

Eventually mats will be more expensive than the cost of making an item, similar again to the situation in FF11.

This has a knock on effect that players will need to be rich to level a craft or just not bother, creating a higher hierarchy of crafters who can manciple the economy.

Yes we have leves to level crafting but that has its own issues at the moment what with the lack of local leves and being a very slow way to level a craft.

There have been veriations of this post since the day the forums first went on line. The simple matter of the fact is that when major adjustments in gear and/or crafts are made everyone jumps on them to make a quick Gil. It usually takesa about 30-45 days for the markets to stabalize and people can get a real feel for the value of an item. Should wait til then to determine what is worth crafting and what is not. Even at low levels there are usually more then enough synths available for low level crafter/gathers to become self sufficient irregardless of what NPCs are offering