So Specialist Recipees are in the game.

Greedy players win again.

Another loss for players that enjoy being self-sufficient.

Self sufficiency is its own can of worms in an MMO.

Were you expecting them not to add specialist recipes?
This is fine. It's an MMO, use words to ask for help from your fellow gamers.


And yes
this is coming from someone who doesn't particularly like socializing. I'm not crazy enough to ask for an MMO to become a single-player game though.

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Originally Posted by Gilthas

Greedy players win again.

Another loss for players that enjoy being self-sufficient.

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Greedy players win? Aren't the greedy ones the ones who want to do everything without relying on others? Personally I think those who want that option and be "self-sufficient" are greedy because they want to be able to monopolize on everything rather than accept that at some point they may need help from others.

They already said it was coming ages ago. They want to eliminate omicrafting if at all possible. I get that. Its an MMO. Socialize, help each other, depend on each other. I get that's not ideal for everyone.. but this doesn't upset me either.

Like AskaRay said... ask for help from fellow gamers. We have FCs, Friendlists and Linkshells for a reason right?

I'm glad we're finally getting them.

It makes little sense to allow players to master any and every combat class but be unable to do the same with crafting classes.

How much would you like this game if you had to pick a combat class to specialize in, never having full access to the rest? Being able to do everything with a single character is a major selling point of FFXIV. Not any longer, I guess.

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Originally Posted by Gyson

How much would you like this game if you had to pick a combat class to specialize in, never having full access to the rest? Being able to do everything with a single character is a major selling point of FFXIV.

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I'd call it "every other MMO available".

I still see nothing wrong with it. Sorry omni crafters can't have a strangehold on the market? Oh no, they'll have to buy things from other people and use all that gil that they have....

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Originally Posted by Gyson

It makes little sense to allow players to master any and every combat class but be unable to do the same with crafting classes.

How much would you like this game if you had to pick a combat class to specialize in, never having full access to the rest? Being able to do everything with a single character is a major selling point of FFXIV. Not any longer, I guess.

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That sorta happens already anyway if you're a raider. You can at best gear up two jobs. Any more than that, and you're likely to end up too weak to handle the checks.

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Originally Posted by Gyson

It makes little sense to allow players to master any and every combat class but be unable to do the same with crafting classes.

How much would you like this game if you had to pick a combat class to specialize in, never having full access to the rest? Being able to do everything with a single character is a major selling point of FFXIV. Not any longer, I guess.

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I can agree that it is inconsistent with their game design. You can master every combat class, every gathering class, but suddenly you can't do that with crafting? Doesn't make much sense. Crafting is niche enough in this game already, I really don't think they need to make niches for the niches. Niche-ception?

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Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

That sorta happens already anyway if you're a raider. You can at best gear up two jobs. Any more than that, and you're likely to end up too weak to handle the checks.

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So true.

You may be able to play every class. But you cannot MAIN every class. I see nothing wrong with the same being true for crafting.

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Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

That sorta happens already anyway if you're a raider. You can at best gear up two jobs. Any more than that, and you're likely to end up too weak to handle the checks.

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Sort of true. But you can also gear up every job eventually so they're all equal across the board in time. With crafting you're locked in to a specialty once you select it.*

*Yes you can change specs, but you can't do multiple far as I recall.

Omnicrafting was ultimately bad for 2.0s economy, there is no economy when everyone is self-sufficient, this is a step in the right direction IMO.

Hardly see how greedy players won... People who still really want to be entirely self-sufficient can still have multiple mules, those of who want Gil to actually have a purpose again are getting exactly that... Am I somehow greedy for wanting the mountains of Gil I've accumulated to actually have purpose because I can't easily produce everything myself? I'm all for Specialist Recipes because it'll mean I'll have to spend Gil... Wanting to spend doesn't seem greedy to me...

My only concerns are;

Crafting still doesn't produce anything of value... Hoping the new gear made from Exploration materials are in a useful range... I guess the gear is good for tier V materia at least, and the changes planned for 3.2 are promising...
Specialists still suck... The skills themselves are just flawed, and only add extra complexity for next to no payoff... Every time I've attempted to use a Specialist rotation, I've found myself wasting time for either the same, or worse results... These skills seriously just suck...

I guess this also isn't how I'd have added Specialist Recipes... I'd have been more in favour of just continuing with the current system of high Craft/Control requirements, with Specialists having an innate Craft/Control(/CP?) bonus. That way Specialists more or less instantly get access to the new recipes, while omnicrafters have to work towards the absolute BiS to make them...

Oh, and with the changes to Red Scrip materials... Well, Red Scrips buy far more, you can buy them with Law, and apparently the Exploration currency as well... Yeah... The whole "Using Scrips to change Specialist isn't feasible" argument kinda falls flat now...

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Originally Posted by Gyson

It makes little sense to allow players to master any and every combat class but be unable to do the same with crafting classes.

How much would you like this game if you had to pick a combat class to specialize in, never having full access to the rest? Being able to do everything with a single character is a major selling point of FFXIV. Not any longer, I guess.

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Uh, we already do specialize in single battle jobs. It's called "pick your main and give him the weekly gears".

also, you can craft every specialist recipe with every crafting class you have, if you want. Just buy the items that let you switch the specialist status to another crafting class (they cost red scripts).

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Originally Posted by AskaRay

I'd call it "every other MMO available".

I still see nothing wrong with it. Sorry omni crafters can't have a strangehold on the market? Oh no, they'll have to buy things from other people and use all that gil that they have....

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I didn't say a major selling point of every other MMO available. I said a major selling point of FFXIV. As in, it had a unique approach.

What you see as a stranglehold on the market, I see as people wanting to be rewarded for putting in as little effort as possible.

I barely mess with the market these days. I just like the idea of being able to do everything if I put in enough effort - just like we can do with combat classes. Apparently I was supposed to check in with others first to have fun. My bad.

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Originally Posted by Felis

Uh, we already do specialize in single battle jobs. It's called "pick your main and give him the weekly gears".

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And crafters are not already doing that with scrips? There's a difference between gearing up everything and accessing all content, regardless of whether we're talking about crafting classes or combat classes.

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Originally Posted by Gyson

And crafters are not already doing that with scrips? There's a difference between gearing up everything and accessing all content.

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No, because the red scripts are for all crafters, unlike battle gear. It don't exist "red script of weaver" or "red script of armorer".

What for battle "pick your main and give him the weekly gears" is, is for crafters "pick your main and give him the specialist scroll". And like you can change your main class and give another class the weekly gears, you can change the specialist status to another crafter.


You can still do everything on the same character, but not everything at the same time.

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Originally Posted by Gilthas

Greedy players win again.

Another loss for players that enjoy being self-sufficient.

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What the point of playing a mmo if you just do everything by yourself?

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Originally Posted by Felis

No, because the red scripts are for all crafters, unlike battle gear. It don't exist "red script of weaver" or "red script of armorer".

What for battle "pick your main and give him the weely gears" is, is for crafters "pick your main and give him the specialist scroll". And like you can change your main class and give another class the weekly gears, you can change the specialist status to another crafter.

You can still do everything on the same character, but not everything at the same time.

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Yes, because we don't have individual crafting recipe tomes, gear, or weapons to buy with scrips or anything. Oh, wait.. we do.

(sigh) You guys keep offering that "switch specializations" advice like it's as easy as changing hats. Can we at least insert some realism into the spin here?

Getting the books from blue scrips should really be done really fast for all crafting classes. Are there harder-to-get red scrip books I haven't noticed?

We have been specialising since the locked tomestones came (and red scrips). :)

Well it's not supposed to be easy to switch specializations.. what would be the point then?
You're on the biggest server in the game; you seriously won't have a hard time finding someone to help you. Find a person who has completely different specializations that you do. Offer to help each other.

Do you really not want to play with other people? Maybe not play an MMO then...?

And
it's not about the "principle of the thing". You still ARE able to be every crafter, just not the best at everything. It's the same as battle classes, whoever made that comparison was spot on.

As an old mastercrafter and currently midcore, i find this very much needed.

Not only gives the specialization system a reason to exist, it kills omnicrafting which is just ok in my book if the specialization recipees are purely cosmetic/vanity stuff. As the moment, what we saw in the patchnotes was a chandelier, glamour item. As long as its reserved to that, specialization exclusive recipees are in fact, a plus for the crafting system.

Gotta make those multi-million gil or more items that rarely show up on the marketboard even more rare and valuable!

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Originally Posted by AskaRay

Well it's not supposed to be easy to switch specializations.. what would be the point then?
You're on the biggest server in the game; you seriously won't have a hard time finding someone to help you. Find a person who has completely different specializations that you do. Offer to help each other.

Do you really not want to play with other people? Maybe not play an MMO then...?

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This excuse is really tiring and makes little sense. When I want to socialize with others I hop into a dungeon/raid, or participate in activities with my guild. When I wanted to do things alone, accomplish things on my own, I could turn to crafting.

You know, it is ok for their to be some solo activities in an MMO. Well, now there's one less, because people wanted to be able to put in less effort, but receive more rewards. I think most people who complain about "omni-crafting" are just too lazy to get it done themselves.

why is it a bad idea? self sufficient is a BAD BAD thing, you need to spend what you get, to get more gil, thats how economy works.

i really hate people who do anything by themself, yes this come from a player who have 8 active retainer to sells anything, and have 8 crafter and 3 gatherer at level 60.

doing crafting and gathering all by yourself is wasting your time too, i only doing that by my self if the price of material is skyrocketing because stupid MB reseller. other than that i always buy all of my material from MB and always try not gather all the mats my self, so gatherer or battle class only player can get their gil.

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Originally Posted by iambanana

i really hate people who do anything by themself

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I enjoy doing everything by myself. My house is Mist ward 4, number 25. Bring your own pitchfork and torch, patio furniture is provided. If I get a group of more than 5 angry rioters, tea and light snacks will be provided.

I dunno why, but the din of protesters always relaxes my nerves while crafting.

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Originally Posted by Gunspec

I enjoy doing everything by myself. My house is Mist ward 4, number 25. Bring your own pitchfork and torch, patio furniture is provided. If I get a group of more than 5 angry rioters, tea and light snacks will be provided.

I dunno why, but the din of protesters always relaxes my nerves while crafting.

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/brings pitchfork and teacup

Green or black tea? I'm sorta cold so heated would be nice too. I can bring the stove.

You get three specializations for free.

Three of them.

Why are you people playing an MMO if you refuse to deal with other people even indirectly through the market board?

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Originally Posted by Moonleg

Getting the books from blue scrips should really be done really fast for all crafting classes. Are there harder-to-get red scrip books I haven't noticed?

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For specialization you need a Soul of the Crafter.
You get 3 from the specialist quest and can also get one for 480 red scripts if you want to change the specialized classes.
Also, the reward of red script get increased in 3.1

I became self sufficient due to 1.0 when so many ppl quit I had to be to get any crafting done. I got used to it and liked being able to do my own melding, crafting, gathering etc. I miss being self sufficient. I do ask others when I'm lacking the time to do things myself like making raid food, for example, but I'd like to go back to being self sufficient like I once was.

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Originally Posted by Gilthas

LAZY players win again.

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FTFY here we go again with the specialists stuff again. If the example they had in the notes is any indication I would say it won't be a lot of exclusive recipes and it will be glamour and other fluff stuff. Hopefully those recipes won't be mats for other classes.

Also no omni crafter can have a strangle hold on a market when it's a free market. Nothing is stopping you from selling against an omni. Nothing is stopping you from crafting and / or gathering. To me it seem the people that don't like omni crafters are lazy but want to make the same amount of Gil as an omni but with a decimal of the effort.

Another thing why even come out with these recipes when the specialists skills still needs work?

Can we please stop pretending specialization swapping is anything more than a means to not get permanently locked into a decision forever? Nobody is going to be swapping specializations around as needed hour by hour or day by day, so let's give the whole "but you can swap!" argument a rest.

As far as I can tell there's two types of players who are in favor of this change:

1) People who won't, for whatever reason, invest the time needed to max out all crafting classes, and thus don't want that route to be the best option available.
2) People who want to reduce the amount of crafters who can compete against them on the market, particularly on specialized items.

as long as they put half a brain into it making sense. id like the specialist items to actually be high end or look complicated something that makes sense to become a specialist in that craft. example make a cool looking ilvl 190 item a specialist thing not a rug or some common looking item people are asking for on the forums

I hope they just make something to step up as a culinarian...

I personally found the mention of people not being limited in combat classes hilarious.

We are limited by esoteric / highest tomes, weekly lockouts, etc. or did the crafters conveniently forget this? Lol.

Anyways, my girlfriend and I will likely work together to get around specialization.

If you complain about specialist recipes I'm not gonna lie, I will laugh at you.

You can be a specialist for all 8 crafts now, it just takes a few weeks of red scrips. Being able to make every item in the game shouldn't be easy (though ironically, having 8 specialists is still easier than getting every master 2 book was before heavensward).

I don't get how this makes people greedy...

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Originally Posted by Eidolon

I personally found the mention of people not being limited in combat classes hilarious.

We are limited by esoteric / highest tomes, weekly lockouts, etc. or did the crafters conveniently forget this? Lol.

Anyways, my girlfriend and I will likely work together to get around specialization.

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The thing you have to realize about crafting that makes it different from combat is this: Your combat gear/class choices don't lock you out of content. Regardless of how many tomestoness you get or what class you spend them on, you can still run and fully enjoy every single dungeon, trial, and raid this game has to offer. Comparing specialization-only recipes to battle tomestones is simply wrong. A better comparison would be if there were "specialist" trials that required a Paladin (Specialist) to run, and Warriors or regular Paladins weren't allowed, or a specialist dungeon that had to have a Monk (Specialist) or Bard (specialist), but no Machinists or Dragoons allowed in here! Oh, and to switch your class specialization so you could run these dungeons you need to buy a Soul of Combat for 500 Esoterics. And of course, SE doesn't let you know in advance which dungeons will require which specializations, so if you pick the wrong ones for what dungeons look interesting to you, oh well! Better forget about being anywhere near caught up to everyone else, because you just lost over a weeks worth of progression to switch. And no, there is no Alex NM or Savage or Exploration or Void Ark gear, only Esoterics gear, so forget about making it up some other way. But the specialization dungeons/trials only drops vanity gear you can buy and sell on the mb for 10 million gil, you say? Oh well that makes it all better!

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Originally Posted by FoxyAreku

You can be a specialist for all 8 crafts now, it just takes a few weeks of red scrips. Being able to make every item in the game shouldn't be easy (though ironically, having 8 specialists is still easier than getting every master 2 book was before heavensward).

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This is wrong in every way. You can only have 3 specializations, period. It does not take a few weeks of red scrips to buy 8 souls, even if you could buy eight souls. Unlike Master Book 2 progression, buying a Soul means not buying anything else that week with your scrips, so you set yourself back severely for basically nothing. I could work on Master Book II's while also working on getting a Supra tool, or Ecahtl Sealant or making other 4-star gears I had MBII's for or whatever else was going on at the time. You buy that Soul for 480 red scrips, and that's it, you're done doing anything meaningful in the endgame of the crafting world that week.

That's funny that you think you can fully enjoy every raid as any class regardless of how you spend your lockouts. because, you know, you can't.

Those who spent time hearing their tanks to i190 via Alexander couldn't suddenly change to Bard or Mechanist. They instead have to save for the same amount of time to get it raid ready. Try to bring an i180 MCH or BRD into savage. You'll likely get booted out and laughed at or you won't even be able to join.

This is a complaint that battlecraft players have always had. We can't diversify our raiding experience because lockouts force us to choose. This is alleviated during odd numbered patches.

Welcome to the club.

You're missing the point. You still get to raid. You still get to do the dungeon, and see it in its fullness. Just because you stand behind the boss instead of in front of it doesn't suddenly make the raid an entirely new experience you never saw before. Is it slightly different? Sure. So is crafting with a new rotation you weren't able to do before (which is actually what Specialization *should* have only ever been - something to give you a different perspective on crafting something, a few new tricks, some decent traits, stuff like that). But you're comparing a slight nuance to a fundamental aspect of the system. If I don't choose Goldsmith specialization, I don't get to make that Faerie Chandelier, nor can I make it for others when they come to me expecting me to be able to do anything because I was always able to do anything before. And if you say "Just buy it or get someone else to make it", you have no idea why a crafter crafts.

And of course, you know exactly what you're getting into when you gear up your tank. You're going to be tanking, or at least off-tanking. You know what your choice entails, and you have known since hopefully your first few dungeons ever. With specialization, who knows what recipes they might throw at us and what classes will be the go-to specialization kings, like how Goldsmith ended up being the Desynth King. If you really wanted to DPS A4S, you'd have geared up your DPS and went in there and DPS'd. If they suddenly made a dungeon where the DPS had to tank and tanks had to heal or something, you might have a complaint, but that would be a complaint about the dungeon, not the system.

And I guess I should point out that the system does not lock you out of running Alex Savage as your i180 whatever. Your fellow players do. If you were running with really cool people who were willing to let you at least try the content as i180, you could. It's there. It's possible. The Day One raiders were doing it with only a few pieces of i190 gear. Specialization-only is a built-in restriction that you cannot get around without getting around the system altogether. Which is funny, since that's exactly how you worded your reaction to Specialization - you planned on "getting around it" with your girlfriend. Because it's a nuisance, not a fun factor. For the record, I don't think weekly lockouts on raid gear are anything more than a nuisance either, and I would be all for Savage gear being awarded freely to those who could clear it.