My friend beat a1, handed me this rare gordian gear he got and I was able to craft it into this awesome piece of armor and he said thanks brooooo!!! Than I woke up and realized my crafts are sh*t and there's an npc that does trade in :/ it costs 20+ million to gear a single crafter to be able to spend millions to make an item that was obsolete the second it got put into game, what gives?
I had this dream..
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11-03-2015, 08:34 AMnickyblazeI had this dream..
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11-03-2015, 08:56 AMRufalus
Yeah the crafted i180 DoW/M gear is not very valuable for the effort it takes, but they commented in the last Live Letter that crafted gear will be more powerful than it has been by the time of patch 3.2, however they will also allow melds to raid and tomestone gear, so we will have to see how these things compare.
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11-03-2015, 09:21 AMnickyblaze
They added melds to raid gear? So I can spend all this time and money into making myself the best to meld items that are by far superior than what I can make. Melds use level requirements and won't be requiring this 170+ gear ive attained. I've blew up well over 1000 materia as a crafter, why should I look forward to more melding, to gear that I haven't even crafted. Why should an fc invest in their crafter? Why do they need one? They're pretty useless as of right now, gg.
"More powerful" right now it's way weaker, like a joke, why did you even show up kinda weak... does more powerful mean stronger but still below? IMO anything less than equal is unfair -
11-03-2015, 09:37 AMnickyblaze
And even gathering, work around timed nodes for hours to get 9 red scripts to get 45 timed buffs at 5 minutes, 45x5=225 minutes of gathering in an endless circle, than to use those I need to craft the same item over and over to get crafter red scripts. But to make those I need lots of mats, more gathering! To get gear that is BIS for crafters that makes nothing near BIS for anything else... at least I can make a carpet for my house....
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11-03-2015, 09:41 AMnickyblaze
I'm actually pretty close to BIS on my paladin, white mage and bard, all my crafters done to help my other classes is make a tremor bow to look cool, isnt there something wrong there?
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11-03-2015, 10:39 AMSollux
I always appreciate a good discussion, but most if not all of your questions are rhetorical, save for the comment on how long it takes to Craft a Combat piece versus it's actual usefulness by the time you can complete it. Let's run a parallel to the i110 Crafted gear and FCoB, shall we?
Crafted items are stronger than Poetic or Dreadwyrm? So I can spend all this time and energy farming FCoB for gear that can't beat what someone can Craft in 2 minutes. That takes no actual Combat skill and doesn't require any work to gear up. I've wasted well over 1000 food+pots as a raider, why should I even try to Progress when I won't get anything better than what I can Craft? Why should I join my FC static? Why do we need one? It's pretty pointless as of right now, gg.Quote:
Originally Posted by nickyblaze
"Raid gear always BIS" right now half my BIS is Crafted gear and I can practically clear FCoB in a week, like a joke, why did they even make Raid gear this weak.... does BIS mean BIS until you can afford the Crafted gear? IMO anything being better than Raid gear is unfair.
I share your enthusiasm for Crafting, I really do, and I want the gear to be stronger than it is now (Or at least easier to obtain out the door) but what I DON'T want is another situation where beating the Crafting Endgame means you automatically beat half of the Combat Endgame at the same time. -
11-03-2015, 11:16 AMnickyblaze
Why can't making BIS be a process with all 3 disciplines? I don't want to make the best in "2 minutes" that's no challenge. my point is that they give away gear, even heavensward quests they give gear out for free! I wanted to get into crafting right away, would have thought the new gear would be worth something, nope, do a 3 minute quest and here's your current level armor
Raiders raid for the best gear, crafters craft gear to go collect leather, we might as well play 2 different games.
Why cant i help make that gear? Why am I left out? all I'm good for is making your food and soon to be able to meld your armor, woooo lucky me!
Has anyone ever requested a meld from you? Try doing 5 jewels in a row to the 5th materia, see how much "fun" that is. -
11-03-2015, 02:17 PMSolluxBecause then there would be complaints that people feel forced to play something they don't want to if they want to be the best at the class they DO want to play. The free gear comes from 1-time quests and aren't infinite. This was only really an issue straight out the door of HW, but at the same time there were very few Crafters who could even make that gear at the time. Sure, the ones that could Craft the gear would have made a killing, but at the same time Combat classes would have felt stunted in their progress because the mobs were tougher than they used to be and they couldn't afford better versions of their gear.Quote:
Originally Posted by nickyblaze
I won't deny that their needs to be some inter-dependency between the disciplines, but at the same time I want to be able to further my own class's Progression without feeling forced to level another class to do so. I felt that way when I was Crafting 2-Stars out the gate. I HATE Gathering with a passion, but I didn't HAVE to Gather the materials myself, I could have used sales from my Crafting to buy them. 3.1 is introducing a new way to Gather Red Scrip materials through Combat which I personally welcome as a nice change of pace from Gathering and a good potential money-maker for pure Combat classes.
Yoshi has stated that Crafted gear will never again be BIS for Combat and I agree, but it doesn't mean they won't make it 2nd BIS, and I think that's what they'll be going for come 3.2. And to answer your melding question yes, I have sat there for 10-20m doing multiple overmelds. Did I enjoy it? No, but I do it for free because I've BEEN in that situation before, and I know that no matter how frustrated I might be at the length of time it takes to meld that item, the person who has millions of gil exploding in their face is MUCH more frustrated than I am. -
11-03-2015, 05:56 PMCookieMonstaLol dude, did you seriously just ask the one person who has all BiS on all crafters how painful it is to meld? Have a look at Ailandi's gear sometime.Quote:
Originally Posted by nickyblaze
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11-03-2015, 08:40 PMnickyblaze
You're not forced to level any class you don't want to, nobody's telling you to, if you want to be a raider go ahead, if you don't want to craft than get a crafter in your fc, that crafter should need your help and you should need that crafters help, right now the crafter is useless. This is a team game, why should teams be limited to your raid static? My team is the company workshop, 4 crafters, 3/4 can be level 1 not wearing any armor and have a level 1 weapon, real challenge, thanks
They changed the systems and made the time I put into it a complete waste. Take a look at crafters BIS fighter gear on the mb, they don't exist! After being out for however long, nobody's made them, I grinded for those books to have over 50 recipes to be complete trash.
Well now I'm being forced to raid because crafting dead. Raid gear is BIS, than eso gear than technically crafters gear, but since it's not practical, law gear is next and crafter gear is garbage, gg. -
11-03-2015, 08:42 PMnickyblazeLol dude, "request meld" ie has nothing to do with his or her own gear. I can be level 60 with a level 1 weapon to meld, has nothing to do with own gear.Quote:
Originally Posted by CookieMonsta
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11-04-2015, 05:34 AMSolluxYou're not being forced to Raid, but you FEEL like you are, and that's EXACTLY how other players would feel if they needed each discipline leveled to a certain extent to reach optimal Endgame. Your case is the exact opposite in that you're frustrated that you can't use the other classes you've leveled to help reach BIS on your Combat class and while I can see where you're coming from in that regard, the majority of the playerbase would rather be able to reach their Endgame without the need to level other classes.Quote:
Originally Posted by nickyblaze
Crafting isn't dead, you just don't see any benefit from it right now. Raid gear will ALWAYS be BIS for Combat classes, and the Crafted Combat gear isn't completely useless, it can be great catch-up gear. If you take the time to look at stat weights for some of the classes then you'll find that a few properly melded i180 Combat pieces actually beat their respective i190 Gordian gear. I know for a fact this is true for the BRD Crafted i180 Headpiece, Chestpiece, and Gloves, and the MNK Crafted i180 gloves actually edge out their Eso gloves in terms of raw DPS gain.
Crafters will NEVER be useless. Just because we can't supply near-Endgame Combat gear doesn't mean we can't still contribute to our FC or a static, even if it's only through food, pots, or gear to help jump-start an alt into AS1. Again, the only thing I'll agree with you on is the scarcity of the Crafted Combat gear itself and the length of time it takes to craft versus how long it will actually be useful. The rest is just your opinion and should be taken with a grain of salt. -
11-04-2015, 06:52 AMnickyblaze
I've been in plenty of fcs and seen plenty of fcs needING crafters for crafting airships, that's the extent of our uses. These pieces you're referring to, I don't see any for sale, nothing in past sale history and none of the 100+ players I talk with have ever requested it or even talked about it. I'd love to make them, I'd craft them all night for free and enjoy it but sadly nobody has ever mentioned it.
Besides benefiting myself with my weekly allowance, there isn't really anything for me to do. Raiders don't need me, gatherers don't need me. For crafting odds and ends, crafting red scripts I need either deep pockets or a gatherer, to make specialty items I need either deep pockets or raiders to provide me with the items (ravana for ewing for example). It's a broken system, where's the team effort in an MMO? :( -
11-04-2015, 07:12 AMnickyblaze
imagine gatherers not having the stealth skill, they'd have to party up with dow/m to gather, encourage team play. Everybody benefits for what's gathered cause the gatherer can't gather alone. Gatherer directs the party and the roll of dow/m stays the same. the loot ends up back at the fc and can be used to make everyone's gear. And perhaps raiders can raid in this gear and can get upgrades after beating raids to improve the armor.
Crafters make the armor, maybe beating ravana you can use the ravana forewing to buff it 10 ilvl to 190, maybe a1s can enchant it to 200 and give it a different glow, make it unique,
I gather as well, it's limited to a loop of nodes, nothing changes, nothing eventful, timed nodes are timed, always in the same slot, no surprise nodes, no fear of getting attacked cause of stealth. Has a gatherer ever been in a party with dow/m? Again where is the team spirit? :/
Maybe it's just me that enjoys a well rounded team effort outside the battlefield -
11-04-2015, 07:12 AMSollux
That's specific to your own server, not the game at large. There are a few i180 Combat pieces on the market on Tonberry, I've even sold one or two myself. If your server has a decent population I guarantee that if you advertised the ability to Craft 2-Star pieces you would get a few people asking about Combat gear. I Crafted an i180 BRD Chestpiece for someone 2 weeks after Red Scrips released, and that was when prices for materials were way higher than they are now. You won't get anyone asking about them if you don't promote the fact that you can Craft them.
If you don't have a Gatherer to get you mats, then level one. If you don't have a Raider to get items like Ravana's Forewing then start running Ravana EX yourself. There's plenty for you to do, it just isn't what you WANT to do, and I understand that completely, but if you aren't suggesting any solutions to your problems or even trying to solve them yourself then there's nothing I can really say to help you. That being said, it IS an MMO and you SHOULD be able to find people to work with and grow alongside each other. If you're actively out there trying to find people to play with or Craft for and you just aren't having any luck then it may just be your server and I'd suggest transferring.
Edit: There's nothing wrong with working together as a community to achieve something, but there are also people who prefer solo play. I personally enjoy Crafting because I can Progress my Endgame by myself. I have the ability to Progress faster with the help of a friend, but it isn't a requirement.