Shiva not strong?? (spoilers)

Does anyone see any inconsistency in Shiva in the story mode? when the WOL and gang are heading to Azys Lla, Shiva can take down an imperial warship which as we know is able to take down primals with ease like Midgardsormr

But when she went one on one with Ravana, Ravana destroyed her like she was nothing. Even when she cast her ultimate ability on Ravana it did nothing

So Shiva > warship but Shiva < Ravana

Not quite. The warship didn't take Midgarsormr down with ease, it was an intense battle that resulted in him sacrificing his own life to stop it.

Shiva didn't exactly obliterate the warship either. She jammed it's engines with aetherial ice forcing it to land for repairs. Before it did that it managed to land (what we presume) a mortal blow on her.

As for Ravana, I think the logic behind that battle is that he was more powerful in that moment because he was surrounded by crystals attuned to the same elements as him (fire and earth) plus his followers were sending their strength from just outside. Shiva was definitely a fish out of water there.

I think it was because Ysayle didn't use enough aether to power up Shiva when fighting Ravana. She even says "Mayhaps, more crystals?" when she was defeated.

When fighting the Garleans she was using a Crystal of Light which we're assuming is VERY powerful/ concentrated aether.

We know that the amount and summoning type affects how strong a primal can be. Alot of crystals = harm mode primal; live crystal + sacrifice of a priest(?) = extreme

Aside from the light crystal she used, I think her willingly sacrificing herself boosted up her powers to

To be fair, Shiva and Ravana were about evenly matched until the former rushed Diamond Dust. Then Ravana broke free and finished her off because the lack of properly-aspected nearby crystals meant she couldn't fight at full power (or at least on the same level as Ravana).

Her fight against the Gration could be considered a case of a small, nimble fighter against a large, cumbersome one. Being far smaller than the Gration, she should have been able to keep her distance and fight strategically. Got caught off-guard and killed, though. Still doesn't explain how she was able to Ysayle was able to use her super mode with just that little crystal, unless "Crystals of Light" are super-dense...

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Originally Posted by Cilia

Still doesn't explain how she was able to Ysayle was able to use her super mode with just that little crystal, unless "Crystals of Light" are super-dense...

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It's highly likely that Crystals of Light are not ordinary crystals. For one, they're given directly from Hydaelyn herself.

Otherwise, any random shmoe could go break off a piece of normal element-aspected crystal that's lying around and claim 'Warrior of Light' powers. =P

In past Final Fantasy games Shiva has never been a super strong summon. I think Ifrit, Garuda and Titan would've been in a similar situation as her if they were there.

It's the power of mind? The stronger faith she has the more powerful she is, just like many japanese manga depict. :3

From both Minfilia's description of the battle of Silvertear Skies and the actual cinematic we see of it, I'd say Midgarsormr actually pretty solidly defeated the Agrius by destroying one of its main engines. He was only killed in turn because he was wrapped around the ship at the time, and couldn't uncoil before it crashed. When Gaius said they defeated Midgarsormr, he was pretty clearly trying to put a less-entirely-negative spin on what was a crushing defeat. It wasn't actually the Garlean weapons that killed Midgarsormr, it was the explosion of the ship as it struck the ground--after all, he roars just before the explosion goes off. Also, Midgarsormr isn't a primal.

Personally, my own reaction to Shiva's battle with the Gration was somewhat more disappointment that she didn't outright destroy it instead of temporarily disabling it, since I feel she could have. But then, as the battle with Ravana illustrated, Ysayle wasn't actually all that great of a fighter, and her own dialog prior to using her crystal suggested that she didn't have any intention/expectation of winning. By that point, she was just... deeply broken, and had come to die while making her death count for something. It's also possible that, considering her general inclinations, dying in the act of hindering the Gration would actually be preferable to having won and so having the deaths of so many people--Imperial soldiers or otherwise--on her conscience.

Shiva isn't being summoned through the same method as other Primals. Ysayle channels Shiva's power and uses her own body as a vessel, yet ultimately she remains in control. When she battles Ravana, Ysayle finds that she simply isn't as strong as she thought. I think that's a flaw with Ysyale, not Shiva.

I got the impression that during the events in Azys Lla, Ysayle surrendered herself completely to Shiva, allowing her to unleash greater power. It was still disappointing to see that the best she could do was slowly slam a giant icicle into the ship, though.

And you also have to remember that, on top of her using normal crystals against Ravana (and not even aspected towards ice) and Hydaelyn's gift against the Gration, she also had a change in conviction.

When she fought Ravana, Ysayle was emotionally torn from the attack on Ishgard. All she wanted was peace between man and dragon, and the dragons she considered brethren brutally slaughtered every man, woman, and child regardless of their part in the war. After the raid on Ishgard, her faith in an obtainable peace started to waver, and she was unsure what she was truly fighting for. In the fight against the Gration, she had renewed conviction thanks to the WoL.

It's worth noting that - realistically - the Gration wouldn't just be home to Garlean soldiers; it'd be home to non-combatants as well. Destroying the entire ship would have taken many innocent lives as well as the lives of men and women who are essentially just following orders and happen to be on a different side. Though the story seems to be shying away from declaring a new war between Garlemald and Eorzea despite an attempt on the Emperor's life. Hopefully the Garlean Empire will be like the Archadian Empire in FFXII.

I'd hate to see it reduced to being a generic evil empire. It deserves so much more than that fate.

Yeah, I'd love to see a non-general Garlean ambassador/diplomat .... though that might never happen since the Emperor >>> all. And he might be killed either by WoD or WoL or whoever by the end of Heavensward

Shiva couldn't have won against Ravana.

Here is a little something from the Ramayana about a certain demon king ruling Sri Lanka:

"Ravana also asked for absolute invulnerability from and supremacy over gods, heavenly spirits, other rakshas, serpents, and wild beasts. Contemptuous of mortal men, he did not ask for protection from these. Brahma granted him these boons in addition to his 10 severed heads and great strength by way of knowledge of divine weapons and magic."

In game this was handwaved with Shiva not having enough aether when fighitng Ravana, plus his inexperience with fighitng other primals, but there was no way anyone but a mortal could have defeated Ravana.

At least she gets points for trying. Your move, Minfilia. Oh wait, you are dead.

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Originally Posted by Balipu

"Ravana also asked for absolute invulnerability from and supremacy over gods, heavenly spirits, other rakshas, serpents, and wild beasts. Contemptuous of mortal men, he did not ask for protection from these. Brahma granted him these boons in addition to his 10 severed heads and great strength by way of knowledge of divine weapons and magic."

In game this was handwaved with Shiva not having enough aether when fighitng Ravana, plus his inexperience with fighitng other primals, but there was no way anyone but a mortal could have defeated Ravana.

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That's assuming the devs even take that into consideration. Final Fantasy, as a series, has a tendency to simply use names and likenesses of mythological gods and beasts, but they form their own lore related to them. I don't think Shiva's failure has anything to do with Ravana being strong vs gods and weak vs man, it was Ysayle being over-confident and reckless.

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Originally Posted by Darkstride

That's assuming the devs even take that into consideration. Final Fantasy, as a series, has a tendency to simply use names and likenesses of mythological gods and beasts, but they form their own lore related to them. I don't think Shiva's failure has anything to do with Ravana being strong vs gods and weak vs man, it was Ysayle being over-confident and reckless.

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Still, they might just had decided to make it accurate to the myth this time as a little reference, Ravana IS XIV's first original summon. And forming their own lore and refernce the original myth are not mutually exclusive.

Or, Plot dictated that the WoL had to face Ravana and thus Shiva had to lose for the sake of the script.

The difference between shiva and ravana's power is considerable. Ravana can draw from two types of crystals, and the faith of his nearby followers. Ysayle had no such luck, and thus took a blinding blade on the chin.

As far as a garlean ship against shiva and ysayle's death to its gunfire, well that's not that far fetched either. She is the summoner of shiva, not shiva herself. Hells, even shiva isn't shiva according to the story! Perhaps someone else would have the ability and crystals to call forth "the artist formerly known as shiva", but ysayle is gone forever.

And this goes without saying, but we probably wouldn't take shots from the gration too well either.