With the release of Lord of Verminion, I was thinking it would be a nice gesture to add the minions that are only available from the CD's, artbook's and plushies for purchase on the mog station.
This would give players who weren't playing Final Fantasy XIV at the time, a fair chance to get minions that are now "out of print" or "Out of stock" so to speak.
Note: Thanks to my Aussie friends for reminding me that they cant get their hands on the special minions purely because their E-Shop doesn't sell the physical merchandise. Having these special minions be available on the cash shop, would allow anyone the chance to get them. Not just those fortunate to be able to buy the merchandise.
Lord Of Verminion (Collecting Minions)
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10-29-2015, 08:05 AMVesparLord Of Verminion (Collecting Minions)
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10-29-2015, 08:06 AMMorningstar1337
INB4 "But my epeen" comments
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10-29-2015, 08:07 AMVesparHaha Believe me, I am well aware that players may feel less special by this, but thats why they should be Mog Station special minions. Heck their price could even be more than the current minions on the cash shop. Just giving players the ability to collect them would be nice.Quote:
Originally Posted by Morningstar1337
All of the minions from the merchandise I actually have, but since its me AND my husband we'd have to buy two of everything to both have the minions. Instead, we compromised and switched on and off who got what minion and when. Personally I think having merchandise related minions available on the cash shop for a higher cost than the regular cash shop minions, would both increase cash shop sales and allow more players the chance to collect these minions :3 -
10-29-2015, 08:07 AMSchalaZeal
Don't forget past events. I missed 2014's Summer, Rising, Halloween and Christmas, also 2015 Valentine and Easter. I might have missed that horse event if it came back. I left for 14 months, after playing almost a year. Just minions is fine.
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10-29-2015, 08:08 AMNadirah
I kinda wish they'd do that for the ones that come with the plushies too, because the minion codes are why they're freaking out of stock.
People buying the damn things and then reselling the plush without the minion codes. -
10-29-2015, 08:09 AMSakuraluna
I think they said in the Q&A thread that not having those minions wouldn't hurt your chances of winning. Something like their abilities being based more heavily on the type of minion being used than the specific minion.
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10-29-2015, 08:11 AMVesparSure it doesnt hurt your chances but it still doesnt change the fact that some folks want to use that minion in the Lord of Verminion but cant get one because like in the case of the plushies - Out of stock issues mean they cant get their hands on the minion even if they had the money to buy the plush. I'm all for physical merchandise, but everyone should have the opportunity to own the minions from the merchandise regardless whether or not the merchandise sells out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sakuraluna
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10-29-2015, 08:13 AMColorful
Considering these things are never sold on the Australian shop, yes please.
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10-29-2015, 08:19 AMzosia
They were advertised as a limited run, I doubt they will do much with them at this point. The fact we have never seen a hint that things like moogle earrings will make it back into the game somehow is probably a good indicator that retired minions will not be getting a 2nd run.
I think they should just reintroduce the codes back into merchandise they came from and remove the exp dates. It seems silly they only did it for the 1st run of the OSTs. -
10-29-2015, 08:28 AMVespar
Obviously there is a market there for these minions. I made this thread to implore SE to allow us to buy the minions separately and support the game in more ways than just the physical merchandise. Hopefully they'll take our feedback into consideration and consider it in the future ^^
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10-29-2015, 08:40 AMzosiayeah, there is a market for it, but it's not so black and white I think. You have many people who will pay $40 for a plushie + minion code. I don't know if you have seen the carbuncle plushie, but they are really small, they are like a $15 stuffed toy. Just to give you an idea, the carbuncle's head is slightly larger than a golf ball.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vespar
SE is getting people to over pay for some of this merchandise by making it seem like your getting an amazing deal with the included limited edition minion. If they start to move these minions to the cash shop, it's going to be harder to over charge people for some of this merch. I don't have any of the data on this stuff, but I bet you sales on the OST and minion plushies would drop some if they show the pattern of eventually adding those minions to the mog station.
EDIT: I do remember a place you can find some stats on the cash shop minions.
http://www.xiv-minions.com/statistics.php
A lot of the store minions have around the same % of ownership as the OST, artbook, and plush minions. The market seems very small for both cash shop and merch minions. Seems like a small market for both imho. -
10-29-2015, 08:45 AMArchaell
The question is if the sales on Mogstation could be able to make up for the lower sales of physical stuff. Pixels are way cheaper to produce, especially when they are already done, so it could even out theoretically.
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10-29-2015, 08:46 AMColorfulBut the plushies are in very, very limited demand. Selling 1000 plush will get you a fair share of profits, but selling 10,000+ minions for $10 each will get you far more seeing as it's 100% profit after the initial (probably very minuscule) investment has been paid off. They could then sell both at the same time, I personally know plenty of people who'd buy it just for the plush.Quote:
Originally Posted by zosia
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10-29-2015, 08:56 AMVesparI actually own the current Artbooks (The e-shop one and the one from HW collectors edition), I bought all the 1.0, 2.0 and 3.0 collectors editions, the 2 Plush carbies, the Kuplo Kopp plush, the delivery mog plush, all the OST's for XIV and I even bought some of the Japanese only equipment and furniture catalogs (which I really wish SE would sell on the other E-shops too). I also own many other final fantasy themed plushes (Cactaur, tonberry, theaterythym choco plush) and various items from FFXI's long and glorious run. I've been to Artnia and the Eorzea cafe (several times) and I'm so close to finishing off a set of primal themed drink coasters (just missing Bismark) but none of this was meant to impress you but rather let you know that despite having the money AND OPPORTUNITY to buy or do these things, many other players don't get that opportunity. I love this game. I want others to be able to enjoy it too. If they cant get the physical items or visit the cafes/shops, then atleast they should be able to enjoy the digital ones.Quote:
Originally Posted by zosia
Also, the carbie plushes may be small but I still love it! I always wanted a carbie plushie and now I have two :O
The minion was an awesome inclusion but not the only reason why I bought it. The same goes for most of the merchandise I bought.
While Im lucky to have these things I wish my friends who cant get the merchandise could atleast have the digital stuff :< -
10-29-2015, 09:07 AMzosiaI don't want to spite people either, I just think making an argument that this would begood for SE financially is not as cut and dry as more cash shop minions = net gains in money." Perhaps in the short term, but in the long term, I am sure they will sell a little less physical merch with minion codes. For every plush sold with a minion, they probably make 3-4x more from selling that combo than selling the minion in the cash shop for $5 each.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vespar
Like I said before, they should put the minions back into the reruns of the OSTs and remove the exp date. I think it was dumb they were retired. If people can pay a sub, I am sure they can save a little money every month to buy the OST or artbook off of the SE store, ebay, import from japan, etc etc.
Yes, but the net profit from the plushie-minion combo is larger than the $5 that is charged on the SE store per minion. If you look on the SE store page, a much larger moogle plush is $15 cheaper than the smaller delivery moogle plush. After taking the size/price difference into consideration, that delivery moogle minion is selling for $15-20.Quote:
Originally Posted by Colorful
The stats on the minion page show that store minions are at best, equal in percent ownership, but the merch minions have higher ownership %s with wind up bahamut being the most owned out of all cash shop and merch minions.
So, at the end of the day, they are selling similar numbers of both store and merch minions. They can sell minions with the merch and charge much more for both or they can dampen their merch sales to sell the minions on the cash shop. -
10-29-2015, 09:12 AMJynxNot a fan of this suggestion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vespar
Fan of this suggestion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vespar
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10-29-2015, 09:14 AMZofis
The thing is though that there's *always* an opportunity to get these items (barring expired serial codes, of course), people just aren't looking hard enough. The items aren't exclusive to the Square Enix store(s) and can be inexpensively imported from various retailers, often times for less money than SE would charge themselves.
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10-29-2015, 09:14 AMVesparI understand that logic and while its nice to have minions paired with merchandise to make it more appealing, the fact of the matter is that it takes more time and effort to create and produce merchandise than it does to create and put up a digital item on the shop. The plushes have been on waiting lists for weeks to months on the E-stores and many players cant even buy from there even if they were in stock. So players who want to buy it are often forced to buy from resellers who charge more or buy from ebay scalpers where its not guaranteed that the digital item code is unused. But a digital item never goes out of stock (unless the producer decides to remove it) So theoretically even at $5 per minion they stand to make more money from its sale over time. With plushes and physical merchandise, if there are only 1000 copies, thats a finite amount the producer will make no matter what. You also have to take into account that a digital item can reach a much larger market in a short period of time, so it can be sold at a smaller price but make far more revenue purely because it reaches the hands of more consumers.Quote:
Originally Posted by zosia
Also, dont put too much stock in that minion website. I dont think its entirely accurate because when the Apkallu minion first released, me and another player I know were among the first to obtain it, yet for weeks it never showed anyone on our server as owning it. -
10-29-2015, 09:23 AMzosiaI imported both plushies for $5 more than what the SE store would have charged me. Just have to shop ebay for the "buy it now for $100 with free shipping" listings or import from a Japanese toy site. Again, there is not an unlimited amount of buyers for the cash shop pets. The stats show on the minion site that they are owned by less users than the merch pets. So, it's not like there would be this giant tide of players rushing to buy these minions. There is not a single exclusive cash shop minion owned by more than 3.6% of the population.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vespar
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10-29-2015, 09:34 AMVesparI still dont trust that minion website you are referring to. Its numbers may not be accurate, but that is not the point of this thread anyways. I'm not trying to argue the sales side of things. The whole point of my original post was to give SE feedback on ways other players might be given the chance to fully enjoy upcoming content that would otherwise be denied them. I am merely imploring SE give folks other "fair" ways to buy these digital items that they can not get through SE's official channels due to them being out of stock or out of print. Since the digital codes for the minions included with merchandise did cost people money then it stands to reason that the digital codes should still cost others some kind of money too if they were to be sold digitally. Therefore it is fitting they be sold on the cash shop instead of being in game rewards.Quote:
Originally Posted by zosia
Edit: This is why I dont trust that website --> http://i.imgur.com/b4mmj1X.png
It is not accurate and pretty much states such.
Source website: http://www.xiv-minions.com/statistics.php -
10-29-2015, 10:07 AMzosiaNo stat is ever 100% accurate, but it's definitely representative, especially since we are talking relative comparisons (IE wind up bahamut to wind up tataru). I doubt those stats would wildly fluctuate if the entire game population was surveyed. Over 200k accounts is a pretty robust sample size. But, as you said, it does not matter.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vespar
SE has repeatedly said that the retired minions will not provide any OP benefit, people can still fully enjoy the content. I am all for bringing back the OST minions to the OST, it was dumb they were retired in the first place. However, there are people who paid for the merch just to have the minion, it would not be very fair to them to just toss them all in the cash shop. I am also convinced that SE sells more merch because of the exclusive minions. If people can afford a game subscription, I am sure they can afford to save up a few bucks every month to buy the merchandise.
I am in full support for SE to stop this stupid business of retiring item codes and making LE runs of merch that is not easily available world wide. -
10-29-2015, 11:40 AMKryloIt's a self selected sample size of people who care enough about minions to go to that site, and attempt to search with their character--thus adding that character and their minions to the database (mine is on there as of 5 seconds before posting this--and all the minions I own did, indeed, increase by 1 grabbing my own character profile and having the site sync it from the lodestone).Quote:
Originally Posted by zosia
What this means is that the site will show a larger percentage of people owning rare minions, etc. than the population at large because it's not a randomly selected sample. It's a deliberately selected sample made up almost entirely of people who want rare minions. -
10-29-2015, 11:53 AMzosiaRight, but my point was mostly about relative comparison. All these people interested in minions show that the cash shop minions are unpopular and are owned about the same amount as the merch minions. If we did an actual blind survey, these stats would probably go even lower since we would be taking into account people who don't care about minions, let alone merch/cash shop minions.Quote:
Originally Posted by Krylo
If anything, the site provides stats on people who care about minions. Taking the general population into consideration, most people I encounter don't care about minions and I would bet real life money the stats would reflect that by showing an even smaller % of ownership for cash shop minions.
I highly doubt there is this silent majority hiding from the FFXIV minions site that purchased all the store exclusive minions. If what you are saying is true, that the site traffic is mainly people interested in rare minions, that probably means the % shown on the site are over represented and the % of total owners of both cash shop and merch minions are much lower than what we are seeing. Either way, the site stats are somewhat representative or the actual stats are much lower and only serve to prove my point further. If cash shop minions were popular, we would see a higher ownership % on a minion enthusiast site. -
10-29-2015, 12:06 PMKrylo
My point was mainly that surveys that rely on people volunteering into them on their own are never really considered statistically accurate.
You make some good arguments for why, in this case and in this specific argument, the site's statistics may be accurate enough to be relevant, however. And I'm the type of person who only cares about specific minions some times so I don't really have a huge stake in whether limited time minions go up for sale on mogstation/become obtainable in game.
So, in short, I concede your point. -
10-29-2015, 12:13 PMzosiaI think they should put the preorder minions in the cash shop for sure, I think the cait sith doll is one of the absolute coolest minions (in my top 5 for sure) in the game that was only available for preordering. As the cycle of player attrition and new subs continue, that iconic FF minion will become more and more rare.Quote:
Originally Posted by Krylo
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10-29-2015, 02:57 PMVespar
I really detest the "I bought X merchandise w/ minion therefore only I should ever have it" attitude. I bought a lot of SE's merchandise that just so happens to include minions and yet here I am lobbying for those who couldn't get one because it was sold out or otherwise unavailable to them through official channels or the code became unusable so even if they could get one now, they cant use it..
Why is it so bad that others get a shot at a digital item that they didn't have access to? That is really all I am lobbying for here.
Is that really so bad?
To be honest if the codes attached to the merchandise didnt have expiration dates and they could assure us all that this merchandise would become available again at a later date on ALL the e-shops for ANYONE to buy, I wouldn't even have created this thread. The point of this thread was to lobby for other means to obtain the same minions in the same fashion (purchased) without the need for the physical merchandise. If SE makes more money off the sale of a those minions on the Cash shop. then good one them, I hope the funds continue to support the game! -
10-29-2015, 03:30 PMzosiaI am all about fairness. I agree that the codes should not expire and that they need to make this merchandise more available to non-JP players. It's not fair to ask that a minion that people might have paid a lot for be put in the mog station for a fraction of the price. I think it's silly JUST to buy the merch for the minion, but there are people who do that. That's why people resell this stuff on ebay without the code for a large discount. I really think arguing for the removal of expiration dates and rerunning the promo codes into the OSTs is a better idea.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vespar
Not sure where you got the "I bought X merchandise w/ minion therefore only I should ever have it" from. I don't think anyone has said that in this thread. -
10-29-2015, 03:42 PMVespar
I feel it is more than fair that the minions be available on the cash shop. Regardless what one person feels is a justified cost for an item or whatever their reason for buying the merchandise may be there is no reason that both customers cant be happy and get what they want. If someone wants the minion but not the merchandise why shouldn't that be an option? Or if someone sees value in the combo of merch+minion why cant they have it that way? Or even just Merchandise without the code. Customers love options. So why not give them that?
All Im asking for is for options like this so everyone gets a fair shot at the digital items. Not to mention the folks who are just buying the merchandise for the code buy up all the product and those that actually wanted the merchandise may not get any because it sold out. (Which has happened to me on more than one occasion at TGS!) -
10-29-2015, 03:54 PMMorningstar1337I implied it with my first comment on this thread, based on the opinions I have after seeing the various topics regarding event items (sort of different since they actually are on the cash shop, but it wasn't always the case, see: xiii collab event) but I don't think I seen anyone commented on this yet that hated this idea (maybe they thought it will die in obscurity), then again there was the comparison war with that minion site...that you had with VesparQuote:
Originally Posted by zosia
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10-29-2015, 03:58 PMzosiaWhat would be the point of the promo minion if it was not part of a promotion?Quote:
Originally Posted by Vespar
You want a skewed shot, one that favors your position. A fair shot would be to have the promo codes redeemable without an expiration date and to make sure that it will always be included with certain merchandise purchases.
This game is not designed to be 100% completed, it's an endless treadmill with content all over the map. Just like I have to live with an incomplete TT collection, so to will people learn to live with an incomplete minion collection.
They have never revisited any of their promo items thus far. SE knows digital promo items move physical units, if they just move all those promo items to the cash shop, they will sell less units of physical goods. I already linked you data that shows the cash shop minions are not commonly owned, they are downright unpopular. Adding any promo minions to the cash shop would not bring in this huge flood of money in. Less than 5% of the player base buy these things to begin with. It's more advantageous for SE to keep these items as their intended purpose, promo perks for buying merch. -
10-29-2015, 04:46 PMwicked-one
Well, i got 77 of those Minions, and never actually collected them.
I guess, even with missed ones, everbody has more than enough of ´em to participate. -
10-29-2015, 05:00 PMDree-ElleI'd love to believe ths; however, multiple such statements that've been backtracked on (PS3 1.0, personal housing cost, decay timers on said housing), leave me skeptical.Quote:
Originally Posted by zosia
My minion collection was doomed from the start. A GameStop employee sold my Cait Sith before I even got home. SE said it was GS' problem. GS said it was SE's. In the meantime, the code expired. I can't use my one-time item restoration on it, of course.
I was all for merch pack-ins, but soured when I found that 1. they were limited to undefined 1st print runs with extremely limited quantities, 2. the codes expired (some buy the merch, and are unable to redeem the code) and 3. the store was run by Digital River. I'm one of those doublecrossed by DR during the Ni no Kuni debacle. I WILL NOT DO BUSINESS WITH THEM. EVER.
I'm with the cash shop crowd on this. -
10-29-2015, 05:09 PMNadirahI had to have my bff in Sweden buy it for me because the NA store can't hold stock.Quote:
Originally Posted by Colorful
So many auctions of Carbuncle "no minion code"... -
10-29-2015, 05:17 PMDree-ElleWhat would be thr point of the event minion if it was not part of an event? Or a 1.0 item outside of 1.0, for that matter?Quote:
Originally Posted by zosia
Wait, there are TT card codes outside of the game, attached to merch? This is the first I've heard of this.Quote:
Just like I have to live with an incomplete TT collection, so too will people learn to live with an incomplete minion collection.
Could be because people have perfectly valid reasons for not doing so (disposable income, moral stance, unavailablity in their country- not all XIV players live in NA/EU/JP- not even wanting the physical item and not wanting to go through the hassle of resale, which is a grey area at best).Quote:
I linked data that shows cash shop minions are not commonly owned, they are downright unpopular. Less than 5% of the player base buy these things to begin with.
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10-29-2015, 06:57 PMChocoFeru
There's a counterpoint on selling them on the Mog Store too, because people will think "I'm not going to buy the CD/plush/whatever because it will end up on Mog Station anyways", and that would encourage people to not buy the merchandise.
Anyways I don't care if they end up putting every pet on the Store, it's ok.
I have all the minions, and the idea of missing one would drive me crazy D: (actually, I'm quite mad because China has an exclusive Panda minion!) so I understand the other's point of view. -
10-29-2015, 08:49 PMFelisIf I see it here right (http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/pr/spe...ss/#content_02), another Cait Sith minion will be in the Void ArkQuote:
Originally Posted by zosia
So, the preorder Cait Sith don't have to be in the cash shop if you just want a Cait Sith and not a specific Cait Sith. -
10-29-2015, 09:15 PMLineageRazor
I doubt this will happen any time soon. It's very much to SE's advantage to give the impression that promotional items are ones where, if you don't buy them when you have the chance, you'll never have the chance again (or, at least, not for many years). This encourages players interested in obtaining the promo items to BUY NOW, rather than sit back and wait, confident that it will be available at a reduced price (minus the physical merchandice they may or may not want) in the cash shop eventually.
Even if SE eventually gives in and makes these items available, with the game as young as it is they very much want to make you believe that if you wait to buy, you may never get it at all. Putting them in the cash shop now would undermine that illusion. -
10-29-2015, 09:36 PMChocoFeruI don't think this is a minion, but the actual Cait Sith, becauseQuote:
Originally Posted by Felis
Cait Sith comes from the Void, and he/she was somehow mentioned in 1.0.
I think Cait Sith will explain why all the invasion of the voidsent in 1.0, because there's yet not a 100% explanation about it.