Soft Failure: A new idea for Raids (and possibly dungeons)

Dynamic Dungeons & Raids.
I had this idea. As it stands now, Raids are a one shot deal. Each time you do the raid it's the same exact thing, win or lose.

How about, a “soft fail” system.

For Example:
The players must get the attention of a Primal leading it through an imperial base. The idea is to make it destroy the base. Steer it well and you then face the Primal at the end having taken out the Imperial base with it. Steer it poorly and the Imperial legion defeats it, and you have to face a number of imperial battles instead. This puts the less skilled group through a greater number of lesser fights, while the skilled group goes through a lesser number of more difficult fights. Depending on where you lead the Primal, the fight changes giving it a dynamic feel. The less skilled group still spends more time in game than the skilled one, and the skilled group still get's the harder fights they crave.

I think it'd be faster and easier to fight waves of mindless soldiers than to fight a primal, especially if you're going to farm tomes.

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Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

I think it'd be faster and easier to fight waves of mindless soldiers than to fight a primal, especially if you're going to farm tomes.

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Its not about farming and grinding, its about substance in gameplay giving players more things to do.

I like the idea, it can also give players who fail to get to that harder moment motivation to reach that high point for a better reward later.

I know, but it's going to boil down to time/rewards VS efficiency by the players anyway.

The idea is to make playing more fun, while keeping the time sink status quo. So if you do each fight perfect you have a typical Raid. If you don't quite make the DPS burn and you get smashed with that final hit or whatever that normally kills the whole party with no potential for survival, you aren't forced to start over and do everything the same. Instead you are pushed to different path where you do another fight that takes time. Kind of like a recovery fight where you can then go back and fight what would have been the second major fight. Fail again and you go to yet another branch, succeed and you go to the finish fight. Basically adding cushion fights for the less skilled, and adding content so it's not so boring doing the same fight over and over.

I like this :D

There were some ideas came to me last time when I saw diablos (is that diablos?) from void ark. Since in the old dungeon we met many doors, in a raid there might be more? Then every time we start the raid it will randomly open 3 doors, each for one full party to go in, all have different encounters inside. Maybe when A kills right mobs it can give B a buff otherwise a debuff, or maybe B needs to play cards with npc and win x times to help C find it's way in darkness, if any party stuck and can't move on, all people have to suiside to restart...

I told a friend this and he said, you are going to kill the whole dungeon development team as well as players lol

But seriously, a few random or flexible content in a dungeon will make the game much more fun. ：)

Final Fantasy record keeper has something like this, dungeons you beat but didn't do well enough in you don't get "mastery" rewards.

Imagine if, instead of hard enrage you're all dead timers, if loot for raids was divided up into "hey at least you beat it" minor rewards and the good stuff, which required beating it in time.

And in Record Keeper, if you don't get the higher rewards you're welcome to repeat the dungeon.

I would like something like this as well, and I'm saying this as a player without a hardcore group. It makes it feel as though you have something to strive for especially if there are different tiers of loot depending on how well you perform.

It's a very simple example, but the first time my static ran Qarn we really struggled to kill the face which runs away (please don't laugh) and it felt exciting wondering what extra reward there would be if we managed to chase it down. A chance of 'failure' even if you otherwise clear the dungeon makes things feel more involving.

I think this would be a great idea, I like seeing different possibilities and it would be fun to run a story-centered party to just see all the endings.

I don't see this working sorry to say. I'm basically hearing, a good group can be finished in 5-8 minutes (1 fight) and a bad group it will take an hour. (3-4 fights)

I can see ppl just leaving after the first fail not wanting to continue with the sorry group. Rage would be real. Especially if it was a trial put into roulette which I assume it would be considering the context of the idea. It's just like Steps of Faith pre nerf.

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Originally Posted by Garotte14

I don't see this working sorry to say. I'm basically hearing, a good group can be finished in 5-8 minutes (1 fight) and a bad group it will take an hour. (3-4 fights)

I can see ppl just leaving after the first fail not wanting to continue with the sorry group. Rage would be real. Especially if it was a trial put into roulette which I assume it would be considering the context of the idea. It's just like Steps of Faith pre nerf.

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I agree. While it might sound nice in theory, I can see people not doing well on purpose for any number of reasons (wanting to see other content, being lazy, or whatever). I'd rather stick with the way it is now than deal with a lot more drama.

I like the idea of raids/trials just not being a bossroom at least. Altho having to completely different outcomes might be a bit excessive. Instead they could make is that in the OPs example, the group knows that the primal is on its way to the base, and will have to destroy as much of it as possible before it arrives, making them face less of the soldiers together with the primal?

Or other similar things. Like if you're attacking a primals "lair", and will have to fight your way through monsters to get there before he wakes up, if you get there quicker he might be weaker for a while. Altho, it would be very hard to make the differences matter in such a way that people wouldn't just leave if one of the "objectives" wasn't successfull, resulting in a harder bossfight.