Hello!
So im pretty suprised that i havent read more things about the pvp in a whole on this forum..
I cant believe that this game has been running for so long and pvp havent been adressed at all.
I understand what the game is about and i've been around this game since the vanilla and the launch of XIV:ARR..I guess im not that veteran that has been with this since 1.0. Either way, im a serious PVP player, and i sincerely love FF, and im happy that its going well for them, and the immense amount of content. But why is pvp never adressed.
How has PVP not been fixed yet.
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10-26-2015, 04:22 AMra1nfieldHow has PVP not been fixed yet.
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10-26-2015, 04:23 AMra1nfield
So what i want to see in pvp, that needs to change.
All melee's barely matter...Monks are useless, case we almost never get to utilize our flanking attacks and/or back attacks, so we just loose dmg all day. Its far too easy to get away from melee, this makes range far superior. PVP needs to be balanced on all parts, all classes and jobs needs to be able to handle themselves, with this im not talking about WAR's doing as much dmg as melee etc. But blur the lines for all the classes, make people enjoy their classes instead of forcing them to play a particular class. Its just so sad to see that pvp is dead, and its dead because its neglected. Its a vicious circle.
Pt2
-Rain -
10-26-2015, 04:23 AMra1nfield
Why do SQEX even include a pvp mode, and just completely ignore the balance factor of the game.
List of things in my opinion that needs to be fixed.
-Queue times (this will be fixed automatically if the pvp gets balanced and becomes fun, i think)
-Melee and their abilities to work in pvp.
-All pvp skills need to be on shorter cooldown even after they get reduced cooldown with extra AP
-PLD's need to be able to compete with warriors and dark knights, i guess this could fall under the Melee class balance.
Im most certain that i've forgotten some things. But please tell me your feedback forum champs, and i hope that one beautiful day, we will shape the pvp and get our wishes fulfilled.
Pt3
-Rain -
10-26-2015, 04:31 AMSanghelios
They not gonna fix it. Thats the way Square did choose to go with the pvp part of their game. :)
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10-26-2015, 04:33 AMTiaHariberux3
Paladin can compete with other tank jobs maybe not dmg wise but they have more tools to use etc. Lets wait for 3.2 and see if they change things I think we talked enough about these issues if they don't fix it they just ignore us.
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10-26-2015, 04:47 AMTarta
When you mean range, you mean SMN and BRD right?
Because any monk, even a severely gimped undergeared monk can kill the top BLM. BLM needs to cast to hurt you. Any melee attack interrupts their cast, including auto-attack. They also need to face you and keep facing you, and can't turn while casting. They will always lose against you. Always (Pretty sure you can survive 18 Scathes and kill em before they kill you with those 18 Scathes).
PLD have their ups and downs. WAR better due to overpower requiring no targeting and they can just spam it. DRK has similar AoE. This means Node Superiority, kill superiority statistics - faster adrenaline.
Yes, melee would be even more devastating with no need to position themselves.
Let's not talk about LB 1-shotting anything, meaning you have Faster kills meaning more gauges thus more kills, etc etc until 2v1 happens.
AST are technically invulnerable. It's ridiculous. At least SCH you can CC their Faerie and then kill the Scholar when they run out of Aether stacks. AST? Not so much.
There's a lot of glaring issues. But it's definitely not melees/PLD that are the main culprit here. The whole system is skewed. -
10-26-2015, 05:04 AMVandrilGC restrictions are the biggest cause of this, hands down. And that's one thing Square has mentioned they're considering dropping. Let's hope they go through with that in 3.2.Quote:
Originally Posted by ra1nfield
That's not very specific. I play only melee classes in PvP, and they work fine. I assume you mean to say that melee are in a bad spot compared to ranged. Ranged classes are hampered just as much as melee, even if their mobility is better: BRD/MCH lose damage (by up to, what, 75%?) depending on their distance from their target and all casts can be interrupted by any physical damage taken. Specific classes might need rebalancing (MNK, AST, and SMN, perhaps?), but not simply due to the fact that they're a melee or ranged class.Quote:
Originally Posted by ra1nfield
No, not all PvP skills need to be on shorter cooldowns. Most might, but the cooldown for Purify is all but perfect as it is. And there are a few others out there that work fine with their current cooldowns. Still, many of the PvP abilities could use a reduction for sure.Quote:
Originally Posted by ra1nfield
They can. PLD are an extremely powerful support class in PvP. They don't do extremely high damage (though they can still dish out some surprising burst), but they have a selection of incredible utility abilities:Quote:
Originally Posted by ra1nfield
- Cover (+ Hallowed Ground) - Can save integral party members such as healers from death due to physical damage.
- Shield Swipe (+ Sheltron/Bulwark) - Can completely shut down a melee for a time with Pacification.
- Flash - Applies an AoE blind. As most PvPers won't overcap accuracy to counter Blind, its a great debuff to lower enemy damage en masse.
- Tempered Will - Can safely risk cliffs without fear of knockbacks for duration. Don't underestimate how much this can matter.
- Shield Bash - Spammable stun. Enough said.
- Divine Veil - AoE, in-combat Stoneskin when healed by party members? Yes, please!
- Clemency - Extremely potent heal that can heal a target and the PLD at the same time.
Just to note: actually, Overpower does require a target that is also in range.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarta
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10-26-2015, 09:15 AMAiden_Volkov
havent SE any facebook, twitter profile, tel, or something oficial? we could burst them with petitions so they may hear us
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10-26-2015, 03:19 PMSlappahUh...what? Lol....Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarta
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10-26-2015, 03:34 PMGillBates
I dont think melee dps is gimped, I think it has a higher proficiency ceiling than expected. I PvP as MNK, and pull very good numbers (10-15k usually), get plenty of kills with minimal deaths. It just comes down to a different playstyle. Dont be afraid to wail on tanks "if theyre in your crowd", dont jump in the middle of an enemy crowd, use fetter ward and purify often, and teach yourself how to burst like a pro.
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10-26-2015, 07:20 PMra1nfield
Imagine how happy i got when i checked my thread this morning to see all of you giving me the most important thing of all...constructive feedback!
Vandril, you shall recieve an extra gold star for being such a great reply.
I'd like the record to state that "I was probably not extremely clear when i posted this in the first place, i was actually hoping for people to correct me and fill the thread with even more thorough information about FFXIV pvp."
I refuse to think the SE will ignore PVP forever, just because they did it before. They had a second chance to redeem themselves with ARR. So i hope that they will change things up.
I sincerely hope that this will be added, GC as in Global Cooldown?Quote:
GC restrictions are the biggest cause of this, hands down. And that's one thing Square has mentioned they're considering dropping. Let's hope they go through with that in 3.2.
PT1 -
10-26-2015, 07:21 PMra1nfield
Also when i mentioned melee i was very unclear to what i exactly meant, but i was mostly thinking of abilities and how they behave in pvp, as with flanking and from behind, this are very seldom utilized. But i understand also that BLM isnt as strong as SMN etc. And in general all i want is that all classes shouldnt be futile in pvp. So, i guess all classes should be balanced in between eachother. Also, sprinting is something that i have a hard time understanding. Its obviously alot easier for casters that dont spend TP to use it. And i feel like all melee classes have too few abilities to use to keep others in melee range. I dont think it should be too easy to get away from combat just by pressing sprint, and as long as the pursuing player dont have weapon throw or something like that ready, its almost impossible to catch up.
PT2 -
10-26-2015, 07:22 PMra1nfield
What i meant about the PVP skill cooldowns, in general if all CD's are reduced then none will be inbalanced, as long as they get reduced cooldown to approriate levels compared to the effect of the ability. Crunching cooldowns on all abilities should'nt unbalance them, unless you put everything on the same cooldown, cause that obviously would never work. But skills like purify should still be on atleast 2 min cooldown. But things as Full Swing or maybe Somersault Kick, could be on 30 sec CD. Cause these will not define the classes dmg or be the one ability to make them kill the competition, but it will let these two classes for example improve their dmg/utility. If all the jobs pvp abilities would be reviewed in this way, i dont think it would unbalance their mechanic in pvp, instead enrich the pvp experience for all who enjoy using their pvp abilities.
PT3 -
10-26-2015, 07:23 PMra1nfield
Ofcourse, i have not crunched all the numbers and put it in 100% theory, so i do not claim that this will work or should be done. Im simply suggesting things in hopes of others to help me find out whats really need to be done.
Thank all of you for responding so quickly to this thread. It gave me alot more to think about.
PT4
-Rain -
10-27-2015, 04:09 AMTartaCan you turn 180 while casting? I sure can't. Interrupts cast.Quote:
Originally Posted by Slappah
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10-27-2015, 05:09 AMVandrilGlad I could satisfy. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by ra1nfield
Also, you can go around that annoying character limit on posts by editing your post. The edit page doesn't impose that limit. <.<
*chuckles* No, no. GC as in Grand Company. Currently, you can only get into teams with other people in your same Grand Company. In other words, they segregated the PvP population into three strict groupings of often vastly different sizes. When you do something like that, queue times are artificially skewed. The GC with the least PvP population will have the quickest queues, whereas the GC with the greatest PvP population will have the longest queues, because all three teams need a full team before a match can start (meaning the largest GC is often waiting for the smallest GC's group to fill).Quote:
Originally Posted by ra1nfield
On some data centers, the queue times differ between GCs by upwards of an hour or more.
If this restriction were removed, and there were no factions, a match could be started literally whenever there's enough people in a queue. I guesstimate that queue times would lower to around 1-10 minutes across the board for all GCs on all data centers.
I assume you're talking MNK, since it's the biggest class for positionals and has all of its damage tied around it. I've not finished leveling MNK, yet, so I can't speak with first-hand experience, but I do know that the PvP skills for MNK are a huge boon for their play in PvP (many of them help with their positionals or GL stack). MNK can do insane damage with those cooldowns up, and they're even shorter cooldowns than most other classes' PvP skills. In addition, their Greased Lightning buff's duration is much longer in PvP, which is pretty awesome.Quote:
Originally Posted by ra1nfield
All I can really say is that I've seen some extremely skilled MNKs do some absolutely amazing damage in PvP. Their positionals make it hard to play MNK - they're probably the hardest melee class to play properly in PvP, with their high skill ceiling and all that - but with enough practice and experience, a skilled MNK is a devastating enemy to meet on the field of battle.
Melee DPS can actually sprint as often as casters. If you have Invigorate, Shortened-CD Enlivened, and a supply of Icarus Wings, you can rotate those cooldowns and be able to Sprint on CD without running out of TP. So, in addition to the potential of using Sprint just as often as casters, melee DPS also have gap closer skills and Weapon Throw. And that's still not all! Two of the three melee DPS have movement speed buffs (MNK can change to Fists of Wind for a chase, and NIN has a slightly-slower passive buff).Quote:
Originally Posted by ra1nfield
Ultimately, while it may seem like casters have a mobility advantage over melee DPS, it's actually the melee DPS who have a very hefty advantage in mobility. It's just a matter of keeping stock of your available tools and using them properly (most melee don't even consider using the feathers). The only thing ranged actually have over melee is...exactly that - their attack range. It's sort of like having a head start on mobility when a chase ensues.
Tanks, though, actually are disadvantaged in mobility, as they don't have access to Invigorate, only DRK has a distance gap closer, and none of them have Weapon Throw.
I do agree that some skills have too long cooldowns for their effects, as I implied before.Quote:
Originally Posted by ra1nfield
Though I'd argue that Full Swing/Somersault Kick on a 30s CD would be absolutely overpowered. XD
I mean, a 1-2 minute CD seems pretty standard for DPS cooldowns. -
10-27-2015, 05:59 AMCeveArthubind facetarget to a key, press it once, use legacy movement instead of standard, you can now rotate while castingQuote:
Originally Posted by Tarta
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10-27-2015, 06:22 AMSlappahYeah...I can...Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarta
I can do like 5+ full 360s within a cast..... -
10-28-2015, 07:35 AMBeckettWhy? As a Paladin, I'm able to stun lock my enemies and protect my teammates with Cover, Testudo, Divine Veil and Clemency. If I want to do more damage instead of having those support abilities, I'll play a different class.Quote:
Originally Posted by ra1nfield