Pre-allag history.

So is there anything we know about the 1st Astral era to the 3rd Umbral era?anything at all. I'd thought Id ask because The Allagans seem to ebt he earliest point in history where we know a lot about, but the earlier eras seem to be more scare information-wise.

I ask both becuase of certain forumgoers disdain for see Allag as the scapegoat for everything and because Heavenswards seems to have "History being written by the winners" and supressed truths as themes. That ad the whole Origin thing being connected to Hydealyn, the Ascians and maybe even the Twelve.

To be really honest? Not much, in fact, very little is known of pre-Allag Eorzea/Hydaelyn. A very bare-bones creation story of Eorzea has existed since 1.0 (the most recent revision appeared pre-release of ARR on the Lodestone), basically stating that the Twelve existed 'in harmony with the early tribes' in Eorzea, until a war brought about an end to the 'Age of the Gods' and caused the First Umbral Era, the end of which ushered in the 'Age of Man' and the First Astral Era, resulting in the Twelve abandoning Eorzea for another realm (the Heavens?). From there the 'early tribes' spread out across Eorzea and took individual members of the Twelve as their guardians, waging wars of attrition against each other in a zealous interpretation of their faith.

Between that point and the rise of the Allag, nothing is known - we know the Allag Empire rose in the 4th Astral Era, so what happened before then is still a mystery. One of the Loremasters should be able to clarify and add to this further though.

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

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3rd astral era.

Yes, Allag is Third Astral. Though funnily enough, the Fourth Astral is another weird void spot in the timeline - player knowledge only really picks up in the Fifth Astral, with the rise of the combatants in the War of the Magi.

But yes, our knowledge of pre-Allagan history is limited more or less to myth. One gets the impression this may even be true in-universe, as the pre-Allagan era was a good six thousand plus years or more prior to the present day. Even today our understanding of history that old is very limited due to how little survives in the archaeological record, and Eorzea doesn't have all of the modern tools that have helped drive our understanding of ancient history in the past century or so. It may just be that there isn't much to know.

Midgardsormr and the other surviving First Brood might be able to shed a little light on how those eras went down, but we have more pressing things to ask them about than a history lesson right now.

Doh, you're both right, my bad - it is indeed the Third Astral Era, not Fourth. My mind is like mush at the moment due to medication making me drowsy. Anyway, thanks for that clarification. :)

Considering what's been said on the subject of the transition out of the Seventh Umbral Era, I suppose we should also consider the possibility that any of the first, second, and fourth astral/umbral eras could have been extremely short. Then again, the Seventh Umbral Era is kind of an oddity, in that 1500+ years of development weren't actually lost, and the land was at least partially restored by a very quick-thinking Louisoix. But he can't be the only hero to get the job done right, can he?

I may be wrong but the more I played FF14 since a realm reborn, the more I believe pre-allags were highly intelligent and much more advanced than any civilization until now. Since we know almost nothing about that era, who knows what was their downfall... The more I look at it, the more they remind me of Atlantis and Mu empires. They destroyed themselves apparently. But in the allag case, did they disappear because of the primals ? Doubtful, if u remember Ultima Weapon. That leaves possibly the ascians ? Why not ? It is said they had some blame on the Hishgard 1000 years lie...

Simply put, no.

The only thing we know about pre-Allagan history is that supposedly a reeeeeeeeeeeeally long time ago the Twelve lived on Hydaelyn with men, but the men started to war, causing the Twelve to leave to the Astral Sea and sparking the first Calamity and Umbral Era. Since then, Hydaelyn has gone though cycles of Astral and Umbral Eras.

History from the First Umbral Era through the Third Umbral Era is undocumented.

The Allagan Empire is the first bit of known, recorded history, as they were so technologically advanced their crap still functions to this day (~5000 years after their civilization was destroyed). They were from the Third Astral Era, and seem to have conquered almost (if not) all of Hydaelyn, seeing as their crap is everywhere. Civilization was destroyed by the Fourth Calamity.

History from the fall of Allag (Fourth Umbral Era) to the War of the Magi (Sixth Astral Era) is undocumented.

During the Sixth Astral Era, there were three city-states: Mhach (Black Mages), Nym (Scholars), and Amdapor (White Mages) who eventually got into a war - the War of the Magi. This war was cut short by the Sixth Calamity, the Calamity of Water, which flooded most of the world. (The Void Ark is supposedly a desperation tactic the Mhachi used to escape it... supposedly.)

History for the Sixth Umbral Era is undocumented.

Then begins the Sixth Astral Era, which saw the rise of modern civilizations in Eorzea, ending with Dalamud's fall, and then the Seventh Umbral Era and now the Seventh Astral Era we are currently in.

That's about all the history we have. Kinda makes you appreciate history textbooks a bit more, doesn't it?

I'm starting to think that the allagans destroyed almost everythig that was older than them, leaving only just vague myths.

Cilia we know that the fifth umbral era was an ice gae. In their desesperation, men re discovered magic and use it as means to survive the long winter. With time their masterise the magic and use it on many ways, with time we know that 3 civilisations were born where magic was being used too much. The war of magic during the FITH ASTRAL ERA ( not sixth astral ). I think the fith astral era started once the ice age finished.

Edit:Accedentally posted the same info as Frederick in my 1st statement. lol

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Originally Posted by Frederick22

Cilia we know that the fifth umbral era was an ice gae. In their desesperation, men re discovered magic and use it as means to survive the long winter. With time their masterise the magic and use it on many ways, with time we know that 3 civilisations were born where magic was being used too much. The war of magic during the FITH ASTRAL ERA ( not sixth astral ). I think the fith astral era started once the ice age finished.

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That's also when Miqo'te came to Eorzea from Myracidia,

The Moogles seem to have a genetic memory of the 2nd Calamity how ever because they mention their original home being destroyed by "Fire Falling from the sky" which could be inferred to be the calamity of fire. So Moogles them selves may date back to the 1st Astral Era.

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Originally Posted by Kaiser-Ace

The Moogles seem to have a genetic memory of the 2nd Calamity how ever because they mention their original home being destroyed by "Fire Falling from the sky" which could be inferred to be the calamity of fire. So Moogles them selves may date back to the 1st Astral Era.

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I'm not so sure that's the case, actually... Moghome being tied closely to Zenith and thus perhaps the pre-Ishgard/Dravanian civilization makes me think that the calamity the Moogles remember was in fact Nidhogg effectively destroying the floating continent in his rage... The Churning Mists certainly shows signs of being scorched, and I doubt that is from the Second Umbral Era given the time difference between then and all the structures being built there, the dragons of Anyx Trine also mention the landscape still showing scars of Nidhoggs rage, so Nidhogg clearly went a bit nuts to cause that much damage, and I can absolutely see that being the "Fire from the skies" the Moogles remember.

So I'm thinking Moogles don't date back particularly far at all... They remember Nidhogg going absolutely ballistic and destroying the floating continent (seeing as parts of Moghome appears to have found its way to the Sea of Clouds on the other side of Coerthas...) and turning the Dravanian Forelands into a smoldering wasteland. They could still date back to the First Astral Era of course, but their historical memory would seem to date back no further than the current nations.

Does someone have the Moggle Mog lore? I seem to remember it saying that the Moogles used to serve the Twelve... Now, that might be a tick in the box for "This is the First Era" that they're talking about... But... Moogles used to server the Sky and Land Lords, that is out right stated in Moghome... The Sky Lords being the Dragons, with the Land Lords being their (then) mortal allies... I'd say the Moogles didn't serve the Twelve, they served King Thordan and his Knights Twelve.

That would also fit quite nicely; The Moghome Moogles focused mainly on serving the Sky Lords, namely Hraesvelgr, and still do to this day. Moggle Mogs Moogles, on the other hand? Perhaps they mainly worked with the Land Lords, hence Good King Moggle Mog. Moogles being Moogles though, they didn't quite get it, they just knew that they served the Twelve (Knights), so when they came to the Shroud, that easily got mixed up with the Twelve (Gods).

I've been thinking about the allagans since yesterday and something came up in my mind : Can we possibly imagine that the allagans were the actual ascians as we know now ? Look at the ascians : They have such a vast knowledge of the aether, they have such high intellect compared to any race in the world and clearly the allagans were way advanced in their time ! Is it possible that a handful of Allagans evolved to the ascians and so reaching another plan of existence ? I may be wrong, but I believe that it was an ascian who told Gaius where to find the Ultima Weapon. And the ultima weapon was built by the allagans ! Such a coincidence !

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Originally Posted by Razem5791

I've been thinking about the allagans since yesterday and something came up in my mind : Can we possibly imagine that the allagans were the actual ascians as we know now ? Look at the ascians : They have such a vast knowledge of the aether, they have such high intellect compared to any race in the world and clearly the allagans were way advanced in their time ! Is it possible that a handful of Allagans evolved to the ascians and so reaching another plan of existence ? I may be wrong, but I believe that it was an ascian who told Gaius where to find the Ultima Weapon. And the ultima weapon was built by the allagans ! Such a coincidence !

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Heavensward Spoilers;

The only problem with that is that Tiamat basically confirms that the Ascians were active during the Allagans era. It was the Ascians that compelled Tiamat to summon Bahamut in retaliation to the Allag, and it was the Ascians that gave the Allag the means to imprison Bahamut.

That said, Elidibus and Lahabrea were both described as "of this world", so it is certainly possible that either of them, or indeed perhaps lesser unnamed Ascians are "of this world" and perhaps were kicking around during various eras, including the Allags, and they "ascended" to Ascianhood at some point.

So the theory might be right ? The ascians we are fighting now might be a handful of allags back then who wanted to make their people reach the ascianhood but they refused. So in retaliation, they pushed the events so Bahamut destroy the allag ! What I dont understand is why trying to stop or even destroy Hyadelyn ? how can they benefit out of it ?

You're forgetting that Lahabrea actually stated why the Ascians want to destroy Hydaelyn - to bring about the rebirth of Zodiark, that by doing so will 'address the aetheric imbalance in the planet'. Of course exactly what this specifically refers to is a big blank at the moment. But given the fact Hydaelyn is the source of life on the planet, to have her destroyed in favour of the Ascians' ambiguous dark god... well... it's pretty clear that it would not be particularly pleasant for all concerned.

Based on what you say, it can come to the fact that if Hydaelyn destruction will make the rebirth of Zodiark, than clearly Zodiark is also a giant crystal like Hydaelyn. Meaning, that last vision we had from Hydaelyn after we vanquised Gaius and join everyone to safety : that dark purple crystal ; it has to be Zodiark !

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

But given the fact Hydaelyn is the source of life on the planet, to have her destroyed in favour of the Ascians' ambiguous dark god... well...

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Fact? Is it a fact? Have we actually gotten a chance to sit down and watch Hydaelyn create new life, or is She merely a symbol worshipped as the creator of such. You know, like one of those... We have seen benevolent primals before, but just having a ton of belief isn't enough to make something true.

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Originally Posted by Nalien

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And how you know this exacly? The moogles very well know the dragons that are on the area, they would say that Nidhogg was responsable of all. Who said that Nidhogg destroyed the continent? I dont understand what you are ring to say
Yes, the devastation of the ruins on the churing mists is a clear sing that the dragons destroyed those structures with rage,

Kaiser was not saing anything related to the dragonsong war. I well agree with his that the moogles were refering to the 2nd umbral calamity ( if that is the calamity of fire of coruse )

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Originally Posted by Frederick22

And how you know this exacly? The moogles very well know the dragons that are on the area, they would say that Nidhogg was responsable of all. Who said that Nidhogg destroyed the continent? I dont understand what you are ring to say
Yes, the devastation of the ruins on the churing mists is a clear sing that the dragons destroyed those structures with rage,

Kaiser was not saing anything related to the dragonsong war. I well agree with his that the moogles were refering to the 2nd umbral calamity ( if that is the calamity of fire of coruse )

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Would they though? Remember, chances are many generations of moogles probably passed on since then. In 1000 years of oral history, Truth passes into legend, fact into myth. What was once a story of Nidhogs fury could have easily evolved into a story of raining fire.

Nope, had two calamities backwards. The genetic memory would be of the third Calamity not second.

1 UE: Calamity of Wind, 2 UE: Calamity of Lightning, 3 UE: Calamity of Fire, 4 UE: Calamity of Earth, 5 UE: Calamity of Ice, 6 UE: Calamity of Water, 7 UE: Calamity of Tanaka. (See what I did there, lol)

So it would seem the Moogles date to at least the 2nd Astral Era as they remember the disaster that Predated the rise of Allag in the 3rd Astral Era.

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Originally Posted by Rhodkr

Would they though? Remember, chances are many generations of moogles probably passed on since then. In 1000 years of oral history, Truth passes into legend, fact into myth. What was once a story of Nidhogs fury could have easily evolved into a story of raining fire.

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The quests in Moghome certainly didn't paint them as Sharlayan when it comes to recording their history, that's for sure. Would they even have been aware that it was Nidhogg causing all the destruction? Not unless Hraesvelgr told them, I think. They didn't even seem particularly aware of why the Land Lords left, or the current situation between Ishgard and Nidhogg... Again, they're no Sharlayan... They're about as smart as Hildibrand if we're being honest...

The legend they seemed to pass down was fairly simple for what I remember; Fire rained down from the sky, so the Twelveswood Moogles left for the ground to find a new home. What would absolutely debunk this theory is the Twelveswood Moogles history; My theory dates them as pretty much 1,000 years old. Calamity of Fire causing their exodus dates them as very very old, as in, they would have been around during the Allags reign, whoever came after, and remembered the Amdapori and their little flood... Do they?

I wouldn't know, I was to buissy doing their chores for them to ask for a Moogle History Lesson.

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Originally Posted by Kaiser-Ace

I wouldn't know, I was to buissy doing their chores for them to ask for a Moogle History Lesson.

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Said history lesson was built into the Chores (specifically the quests for finding the Twelveswood Moogles an then fighting a stray Gaelicat)

At ;east they're taking initiative on something (Restoring Zenith I actually wonder if it will be the xpac equivalent of Revenant's Toll)

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Originally Posted by Morningstar1337

Said history lesson was built into the Chores (specifically the quests for finding the Twelveswood Moogles an then fighting a stray Gaelicat)

At ;east they're taking initiative on something (Restoring Zenith I actually wonder if it will be the xpac equivalent of Revenant's Toll)

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Trust me, After about the 10th BS Moogle Mission I stopped reading anything they said. Those moogles make me want to PK a Chocobo.