Minium 2*Star Melds on i150

Hello Guys,

I've been theory-crafting in order to see how much money/materia you need to spend in order to hit the 2 star-requirement with i150 Gear. My plans are to get as much CP as possible, as they can and probably yield better results without taking a big hit on your pocket. All this is done under the assumption of using Seafood Stew HQ, as this one gives the most CP currently, on top of it, it provides more Control. Priority is CP>Craftsmanship>Control (Cost!) and with a big focus of capping the Stats.

Total Stats under Food-effect:
719 Craftsmanship
696 Control
453 CP

Here's a picture and the ariyala-link:

http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/RTUW

http://i.imgur.com/wNJgUZt.png

Exspected Result:
http://i.imgur.com/GUZI9jq.png

Hot Topics:
Body - Too much of Craftsmanship-loss?
Earring - Double CP+4 needed?(only IV-materia overmeld!)
General - do you need more Control/Craftsmanship?

Please share your thoughts regarding this method, before i burn my money to test it out.

I have been using CP+3 then CP+1 on both mainhands and offhands.
It's a lot cheaper than using CP+4.
The "12x CP IV" count here kinda neglected the fact that we have 8 classes. So there's 14 more CP IV hidden behind if one wants to use CP IV for mainhand & offhand.

For the chest, I sacrificed all control for craftsmanship. And then for accessories, I sacrificed some craftsmanship for control. But that's just my choice.

First of all, thanks for the feedback, it really helps a lot.
I didn't notice the fact that you have to meld each weapon, so that's true, probably have to change that.

Regarding craftmanship and control, yes you can pump more or change materia around, but imo i feel materia I is the cheapest way to handle the pentameld as last slot, control materia I is sadly not good enough to consider.

I added a crafting-picture to see how much cp is needed and if i even can hq the 2star recipes, thats my result and the rotation i came up with:

http://i.imgur.com/UasqNJM.png

Any feedback regarding this rotation?
Out of 15 MaMa, 5 can fail and one ToT is needed. In case rapid synthesis fails, another hasty touch can be changed for another rapid synthesis.
There are potentially 12 hasty touches and it seems to be a good hq chance.

I think if your minimum melding plan works out, it will be extremely beneficial to the community. :) However, before i start recommending this to people, someone needs to verify that it actually works. Until then, please pardon my skepticism.

As for you rotation, the two Rapid Syn are arranged on the last two steps of the Ingen2, which i think is too risky. If RS fails, you will have to redo ingen2, which can potentially be a problem. I like your effort though. Looking and learning from other people's rotations are good, but one should also at least try to construct one's own rotations, like you did, and learn from the process. Thumbs up for you! Now is the time to take a look at other people's rotations, and improve your own! :D

Actually its on the last 3 ingen procs, since the 5 stacks count after using it, so you have a backup in case it fails! Gonna try when the servers are up again. Other rotations need wayyy better stats to achieve similiar results, at least from what i have seen on the net.

My bad, I was looking at this from my iphone, so everything was tiny... haha. Yes there is 1 room for a failed Rapid Syn. But from my experience, I have used a rotation like this before (Method 2 in my crafting guide), and failed 3 Rapid Syns in a row, so it's something that can happen sometimes.

I now use Rath's rotation most of the time, since it uses about the same amount of CP, but more secure and can be done with very minimal stats (Method 3 listed on my crafting guide):
http://i.imgur.com/HoB6TYD.png
(I just realized I put 25 CP for the first SH... I'll correct that soon)
This can be done with as few as 724 craftsmanship... it can probably be done with 718 craftsmanship (because even if each CS II gives 101 progress, it'll still be fine), but I haven't tested with 718 yet.

All these rotations and their variants work fine. It all comes down to personal styles and preferences. Once we have gained enough stats from obtaining some i170 or i180, Katlyna's rotations are also very nice.

I saw raths rotations, however i don't like the missing flexibility on bygots to hit good or excellent, which is actually a big deal imo.
I've worked out a rotation that has only 9 HT, however 2 PT or with one good up to 3 PT. Bygots has also up to 3 chances to be good/excellent while raths one has only one, in addition if a this case happens, a standard synthesis or two can be used, even though thats a minor difference. Anyways ill post the rotation and you can give me your thoughts about it.

Maindifference:
2 HT for 2 buffs(higher chance to get bygots on good/excellent)

11HT<->9HT
2PbP(3 protected FS)<->1PbP(4 protected FS)
0PT<->2 PT
1 chance to hit Bygots <-> 3 chances to hit Bygots
451CP<->419CP
Stable<->Relies on good(PT/Bygots/ToT) to be better


Mainproblem:
I don't know if the progress is correct on the simulator, since ingen1 and 2 seem to give the same result?
(Numbers are taken from Image above)
2 PbP(473+317)+3 CS II(306)=1096
1 PbP(473)+1 CS II(102)+3 CS II under Ingen1=1096? -> 1 CS II under Ingen1=174(521/3)?
Room of Error: 20points-> 1 CS II under Ingen1=167 [(521-20)/3]

Any Feedback would be nice.

http://i.imgur.com/FQSIhHS.png

PS: Additional Info
CS II with Ingen2 = 171(Craftsmanship 730) / 172(Craftsmanship 734)
exspected: 168? (12 Craftmanship less=3progress), might have to change to ingenII

An interesting rotation, however it has a few flaws:

1. Your 3rd Comfort Zone is more detrimental than helpful. You still have 2 stacks remaining when you get to your last CP move Waste Not, which means you've actually lost CP rather than gained it.

2. Due to the above issue, by the time you get to Waste Not you're left with 76 CP which leaves only 20 CP to spare and room for 1 PT, not 2. Omitting the third CZ still only leaves room for 1 PT with 22 CP remaining.

3. Only a single Standard Synthesis can be used as well because of CP limitations, and if it is used it MUST be used as a replacement for a CSII as using it anywhere else would result in a minimum loss of 1k ending Quality. This also means it would have to be used without Steady Hand and have a chance to fail.

4. Having only 9 Hasty Touches leaves you at the severe mercy of RNG. A single missed HT can lose you anywhere from 1-1.2k ending Quality. Ingenuity helps Byregot's quite a bit, but it also makes each failed HT hurt that much more as well.

5. If the opportunity arises it's actually better to use the CP you have reserved for Innovation on a PT instead. The simulation is a little off in that it adds the same Quality values for a PT as it would for a BT, even though PT can only be used on a Good or Excellent and will ALWAYS have either 150% or 400% Efficiency.

6. I also wouldn't trust the simulator entirely on Ingenuity, I've only ever tested Ingenuity II and can't be sure that it's accurate. If you're forced to switch to Ingenuity II you won't have enough CP to do a PT or an SS without a Good to ToT.

It has potential with a safety net of 3 RS failures/ToT and a PT in the beginning, however there are some CP management issues and with only 9 HT it has a low chance of actually reaching the stated 8.5k Quality as RNG can be a cruel mistress. I understand this rotation was built to try fishing for a Good, but with a decent rotation it isn't necessary and I wouldn't recommend gambling with 2-Stars at their current prices.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sollux

An interesting rotation, however it has a few flaws:

4. Having only 9 Hasty Touches leaves you at the severe mercy of RNG. A single missed HT can lose you anywhere from 1-1.2k ending Quality. Ingenuity helps Byregot's quite a bit, but it also makes each failed HT hurt that much more as well.

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What people need to always keep in mind about Byregot's Blessing is that the quality increase it provides is partly proportional to the square of the number of Inner Quiet Stacks you have. More precisely,

BBQuality = (100 + 20*IQ_stacks) * CurrentControl
CurrentControl = BaseControl*(1 + .2 * IQ_stacks)

Therefore

BBQuality = (100 + 20*IQ_stacks) * BaseControl * (1 + .2 * IQ_stacks)

= BaseControl * (100 + 40*IQ_stacks + 4*IQ_stacks^2)

As a result,

• 9 stacks produces about 16% more quality than 8 stacks (and 36.1% more than 7),
• 10 stacks produces about 14.8% more quality than 9 (and 33.1% more than 8), and
• 11 produces 14% more than 10 (and 30.6% more than 9).

So having fewer stacks can really hurt.

Basically that means that there are no other rotations known, that would work better than the one rath posted. Interesting, since i tried to contest it a little, however it makes sense that at that level of gear and considering the cost of the 2 star melds it would be simpler to just get starting quality ~2k-3k to finish it safely. That would mean i would have to get at least 3-5 items in HQ with the melds given.

My original thoughts were to guarantee HQ with the use of Reclaim, which can be used at the very end, since i prefer to get 100% hq with all nq, given the price of the mats. That method was also used for the items needed for masterbooks if you can remember, reclaiming rly often. Even though the chance is a lot lower, i'll have to think about that. For now i'll change the melds to the requirements given above.
I'll meld the items stated above asap the servers are up. I'll report once i get enough mats for my first 2star-craft.

PS: Edited rotation+needed materia as well as added expected materias needed. Expected Cost on my Server will be around 2.5million(100 Control-materia III ~2million), with the CP-materia used from jobquests.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MariaNyan

I saw raths rotations, however i don't like the missing flexibility on bygots to hit good or excellent, which is actually a big deal imo.
I've worked out a rotation that has only 9 HT, however 2 PT or with one good up to 3 PT. Bygots has also up to 3 chances to be good/excellent while raths one has only one, in addition if a this case happens, a standard synthesis or two can be used, even though thats a minor difference. Anyways ill post the rotation and you can give me your thoughts about it.

SNIP

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Another good attempt here to come up with something new, which is good! :)
But, there's NO WAY you can fit that many Cross Class skills there!
MaMa, FS, PBP, Ingen2 and Innov... Out of these, you can usually pick only 3 if you wanna keep that Reclaim.
Also, just a reminder that Ingen1 don't work on that simulator. Katlyna has told us that only Ingen2 is working properly there.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MariaNyan

Basically that means that there are no other rotations known, that would work better than the one rath posted.

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For 718 Craftsmanship, probably! After all, that rotation was designed very early... so it caters crafters with minimal stats.

For higher Craftsmanship, there're a number of good rotations out there...
Katlyna's and Sollux's rotations are all pretty solid.
I have been using my own "Method 4" for BSM (which has 1 fewer Cross Class Slot if using Rath's rotation, so it's not good to use Rath's rotation), and it's been working great for me (hasn't failed me yet after ~15 times). However, it does require 734 Craftsmanship.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MariaNyan

My original thoughts were to guarantee HQ with the use of Reclaim, which can be used at the very end, since i prefer to get 100% hq with all nq, given the price of the mats. That method was also used for the items needed for masterbooks if you can remember, reclaiming rly often. Even though the chance is a lot lower, i'll have to think about that. For now i'll change the melds to the requirements given above.

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Personally, I actually have been removing Reclaim from my Cross Class slots, and fill in with Innovation for 2 star crafted mats. This is because, like you said, I want a better chance of HQ-ing them. But even if all hasty blew up, i would not Reclaim on 2 star crafted mats, because I do not want risking to lose all those Favor mats. So I'd gamble with better chances of HQ. If it fails, then I'll take NQ... better than losing it from Reclaim. As for the final product, I actually would add in Reclaim, and forfeit Innovation. This is because NQ final product is almost USELESS anyway. So might as well Reclaim it, and start from scratch. I have encountered 1 or 2 cases before where 5 or 6 Hasties blew up on my final product. And luckily I reclaimed successfully.

Alright, i'm back to report from my melds, i checked the amount needed as well as the costs, it was a bit more expensive than expected.
The problem i have is that craftmanship materia I are scarce and there before expensive on my server, therebefore i cant buy even if i wanted to 200 materia of those.
Well here's the info of the current progression:


http://i.imgur.com/8aiTt7J.png

Currently sitting on Macros for 35, 70 durability.

Sorry, I got very confused by the figure... I understand green is in-slot meld, yellow is 1st overmeld, orange is 2nd overmeld etc., But for all those 1x, 1x, 3x, 2x... what materia are you adding? What type and what tier? And why are there two different price lists there?

Regarding the Sheet, you have to look in comparison to the sheet on the first page, ill link it for you.
The 1x, 2x keeps tracks how many materia of needed to meld the slot, eg. green slot is 100%, so i needed 1x materia of the sort to meld it.
For the materiatype just check the picture here. gonna continue the craftmanship I materia as soon as the price drops, since 3million would be too much for 200 stack, not to mention we dont even have the quantity on the server.

http://i.imgur.com/wNJgUZt.png