I main pld, always have, always will. I like the sword/shield combo but as of lately (Alexander savage being tuned for drk over pld, please see countless forum entries for proof can't miss em) I feel as though the potential for how a pld should should be functioning is not being reached. For starters the selection of shield types is just horrible: either tower or kite that's it. Sure some might say "but what about onion shield/true ice shield?" But no lol i90 and i115 just no. The 2nd issue is function, every shield should have 4 stats: block strength/block rate, magic deflection/deflection rate. I'm no saying shields should block magic at same %, just that it should be a function of shields. I won't go into what %s should go where as I ain't nerdy enough to know what's good and what would be O.P. but my word, I made a shield where I work and it blocks sparks, flames, molten aluminum/steel, all of which SE would consider magic damage so how about throwing us a freaking bone here?
shields need an overhaul.
Printable View
-
10-17-2015, 03:50 AMNomad-phxshields need an overhaul.
-
10-17-2015, 03:56 AMCanadane
Not only do I agree with you, but they should bring back WHM/BLM shields as well.
-
10-17-2015, 04:09 AMTouchandFeel
But those sparks, flames, etc. you were blocking with the shield you made weren't magical in nature so they don't count.
Joking aside, having magic deflection stats on a shield could be interesting and would open up some new possibilities with a bit of horizontal gear progression.
For example you could have shields that are your traditional big bulky metal shield that has high physical defense capabilities but virtually none versus magic, then on the other end there could be a shield that is great at deflecting magic but not great at physical defense.
If they did this for shields/block they would probably need to do this with parry too. -
10-17-2015, 04:12 AMArchaell
Totally agree. It feels like the potential of the shields is highly wasted.
I also miss some kind of "hold the line" ability which would let you actively increase block while causing pacification or channeling. Combine it with reflecting damage etc. and the shield would be much more utilized. -
10-17-2015, 04:23 AMFevellePlease! I miss using wands.Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadane
-
10-17-2015, 05:04 AMKosmos992kI agree with this and the original post. Shields get no love in this game, it's time for that to change.Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadane
-
10-17-2015, 05:09 AMTintno thanks. i'm glad there are no new shields and one handed weapons for whm. so ugly D:Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadane
-
10-17-2015, 06:29 AMNolLacnala
-
10-17-2015, 06:33 AMWhiston
Shields blocking magic? That's ridiculous, just ask Haurchefant how that works out.
-
10-17-2015, 06:48 AMEye_GoreObviously not a "magic" shield.Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiston
-
10-17-2015, 07:02 AMEspToo soon *sniffles* too soon..Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiston
-
10-17-2015, 08:06 AMBrannigan
The bucklers were actually quite good even with the lower ilvl in 2.0. However, now that Sheltron exists, bucklers are going to be bad until they really buff shield swipe a lot.
-
10-17-2015, 08:08 AMKosmos992k
Was thinking about this a little and had an idea to change shields in the game, and possibly breathe life back into their use. I hate boring Fridays at work, they often lead to off the wall concepts, so please be gentle if this sounds crazy...
What if, shields were based on PDef/MDef and a generic 'blocking' stat, instead of being based on block chance and block strength?
Make blocking a secondary stat that is modified by DET to determine block strength, and modified by Parry to determine block chance. Then put PDef and MDef on the shields instead of the block chance/strength stats. As a balancing factor for lighter vs heavier shields, apply a modifier to GCD based on the size/bulk of the shield type. Shields would carry a third statistic - blocking based on ilvl and shield size/type.
I don't have the source numbers or formula for calculating block chance/strength, so someone else will need to determine what reasonable values are for the blocking stat. But since shields are used to block attacks, they should retain that function, but it should be a less important part of their function.
The idea would be that shields provide a certain amount of passive defense (additional PDef/MDef) and a certain amount of active defense (blocks)
There are currently 4 types of shield; Buckler, round, Kite and Scutum. When they could use them, mages had access to bucklers, round and Targe (resembles a small kite) shields. Typically though the mage shields offered half the defensive benefit of the melee shields.
So, to lay out how shields would work, first the effectiveness of shields would be 100% on frontal attacks, 50% on flank attacks and 0% on rear attacks.
Bucklers would offer 75% of the defense of an equivalent ilvl DoW belt, but bring a 5% reduction in GCD.
Round shields would offer 100% of the defense of an equivalent ilvl DoW belt, with 0% modification to GCD.
Kite shields would offer 125% of the defense of an equivalent ilvl DoW belt, but bring a 5% increase in GCD, is 75% effective on flank attacks.
Scutum shields would offer 150% of the defense of an equivalent ilvl DoW belt, but bring a 7.5% increase in GCD, is 100% effective on flank attacks.
Magic users would have access to bucklers, round and small kite shields (Targe), no larger shields due to their weight. However, the weight of the shield will matter more to casters;
Mage bucklers would offer 75% of the defense of an equivalent ilvl DoM belt with a 5% reduction in GCD
Mage Round shields would offer 100% of the defense of an equivalent ilvl DoM belt with no change in GCD
Mage Kite/Targe shields would offer 125% of the defense of an equivalent ilvl DoM belt with a 5% increase in GCD
Finally Since Blocking would now be a secondary stat like Parry, base it on Dex, and potentially use a trait for enhanced blocking for GLA/PLD.
I used the Belt as the base PDef/MDef since it's the smallest contributor to defense in armor. That should help keep shields from being OP. Removing the block strength and block chance from the shields should offset the additional defense that they offer, as long as the base blocking skill is not unbalanced. Also, remove any skill/spell speed from shields since they would have more direct influence over GCD now.
Finally, CNJ/THM/WHM/BLM weapons could easily be rescaled to have the same stats in the 1 or two handed form. Basically cosmetically, you can either use your weapon two handed and it will look like a staff or 1H with a shield and it will look like a want/brand. Mage shields would therefore carry no stat bonuses since everything would be weapon based except the shield action.
A mage that decides to wield 2h without a shield would receive a 10% reduction in GCD since they are giving up the benefit of the shield.
A GLA/PLD who drops their shield would similarly gain a 10% reduction in GCD, but their weapon is still a 1H weapon. Also, GLA/PLD shields retain their existing stat bonuses since their gear is balanced around the extra stats on shields being included. So a GLA/PLD playing without a shield is at quite a disadvantage, even with the reduced GCD.
e.g. for a lvl 50 PLD with the standard Zenith relics and Myth gear, the Zenith shield would have +122 Pdef/Mdef, +181 blocking along with Strength +9, Vitality +10, Parry +11
Over all the idea is to revamp shields entirely, and change how they function as shields. It would reduce the role of blocking, but not completely, but add in a greater passive defense impact from shields which I think is missing.
OK, that's the end of my Friday ramble... -
10-18-2015, 01:43 AMMarxamThey also need to overhaul the scaling of shields on Roes. I'm tired of seeing shields that look tiny and lazily placed off center towards the top left shoulder. If its a data limitations issue then why not reduce the size on some of the smaller races and use that space to increase the size of shields on Roes? Tower shields on Lalas look more like great shields but Tower shields on Roes look like Kite shields. Small shields on Roes are hilarious as they look more like bucklers or even bracers (since it hangs off the wrist instead of actually being held).Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomad-phx
-
10-18-2015, 01:45 AMDererkQuote:
Originally Posted by NolLacnala
Actually I'm pretty sure shilds can block breath attacks. If so this means all of them are physical damage types. -
10-18-2015, 01:58 AMBlackbird1
I completely agree the selection of good looking shields has gone down and those that we do have the stats are question able at times we need new shield selection with better stats on them Come on SE!
-
10-18-2015, 02:05 AMNomad-phxWe need more shields like the 840 day vet reward too(almost non-existent) or a retractable shield that only gets full size upon blocking (similar to the shield in "Percy Jackson and the Lightning Thief")Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackbird1
-
10-18-2015, 02:10 AMNomad-phxWell, I hadn't considered that but..... Since we have guaranteed blocks with sheltron now and bucklers are kinda non existent in relevant ilvl they could fill the gap WITH a magic only shield, would add pretty interesting customizing for each scenario, would also alleviate the need to re-balance physical vs magic damage a little bit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eye_Gore
-
10-18-2015, 01:12 PMTadus
This is true, if shield are just shields to mitigate 21% damage of a physical attack i may as well go DRK. Whats the point of PLD if he is only seen as the tank with the shield? Low dps, boring, and now falling under a hole why even bother with pld.
-
10-18-2015, 01:27 PMMycow8me
I think the problem is the stat selection... the stat selection currently is so bland on everything. Wheres +magic defense, +attack power, or even enhancements towards abilities and traits. From what ive read, they should definitely start with shields but future gear should add some variety imo...
-
10-27-2015, 06:08 PMNolLacnalaI'd need to research that a bit, I'd figure it'd be like most of the content; just because it works in one fight doesn't apply to every fight. Like how dots stop ticking in most Heavensward fights during invulnerable phases but persisted in most ARR fightsQuote:
Originally Posted by Dererk
For instance, is Nidhogg's fireball phys or magic damage, since the Paladin in SE's own benchmark used Sheltron to block it
http://i.imgur.com/QyHy4JC.png
Oops? -
10-27-2015, 06:45 PMAirget
Honestly I think the simplest way to combat magic damage for Paladin would be a simple trade off. "Magic sword" ability, you sheathe your shield and use your left hand to perform an incantation to divert a set amount of magical damage to your blade, acting like a lightning rod which helps to absorb the damage you would take from magic and act as a "shield" towards magical damage while leaving you with the inability to block attacks.
-
10-27-2015, 06:50 PMWarlyx
PLD needs FFXI treatment :P , the relic in FFXI looks like that (for a reason!)
http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/...b/bf/Aegis.jpg -
10-27-2015, 08:42 PMSaccharin
Itemisation in general is a little dry. There's just not enough interesting stats.
I would like to see parry reworked. Instead of just mitigating 20% damage you would avoid the attack. Parry is too similar to block now. Evade would be removed since it's the same thing.
Unfortunately PLD/GLD is the only one who uses shields so the chnace of more varied shields being made are very small. We do have a greater block strength one available from Rav ex but in time the ilevel will make it obsolete.
How about shield customisation: similar to the relics, but less complex, allow you to change the stats on our shield slightly. Maybe reduce the amount of block rate and replace it with some block strength; maybe alter magic defence against physical defence.
That could be the case but it could also be artistic license.Quote:
Originally Posted by NolLacnala
However, I was farming Shiva for light yesterday and some of her ice attacks wee blockable. -
10-27-2015, 08:44 PMDererkQuote:
Originally Posted by NolLacnala
Back when I was still trying to clear T13 you could block Flare Breath. Maybe its changed? -
10-27-2015, 08:46 PMDererkQuote:
Originally Posted by Warlyx
Back when gear lasted 3-more years. -
10-27-2015, 09:01 PMHeavenswordQuote:
Originally Posted by Whiston
Actually, my shield worked fine against Ser Zephirin's aether lance. Noticed that the lance didn't go through my shield right away, but rather it was STOPPED before it drilled through due to after attacking the same spot on the shield for a period of time? -
10-27-2015, 09:36 PMCabalabobNo you couldn't, flare breath has never been blockable, I hear rubbish like this all the time, my old drg friend swears to hydaleyn that he parried twintania's fireball once. People think they blocked things that can't be blocked all the time, simple rule, screenshot or it didn't happen.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dererk
As for sheltron in the video, it was just to be artistic, in the original ARR trailer they had a paladin use sentinel right as ifrit used his fire breath attack to make it look like he created a bubble around himself to prevent damage completely, when in actuality if you left it that late the buff wouldn't even be active in time to block the attack (same for sheltron actually you don't get the effect until after the animation). -
10-27-2015, 10:37 PMBlood-Akiopinions, besides it's nice to have alternate options, currently glamour items like garudas wile are useless to glamour besides it's a 1 handed weapon. Likewise with the levi weapon and shield combo.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tint
BLMS suffer the same issue with the crafted ifrit cudgel, its useless, because no 60 blm is going to be running around with an i 95 weapon. -
10-28-2015, 12:03 AMLyrica_AshtineOr you can actually [b]believe[/] your friend, you know. Some friend you areQuote:
Originally Posted by Cabalabob
http://youtu.be/XXNWr4f34U0
At around 3:25 or 3:30. Look at the damage the paladin is taking and the number under
FCOB Turn 4 Revelation could also be blocked and parried off the top of my head -
10-28-2015, 01:45 AMRoegadyn_Bearhttp://blog.cristianismeijusticia.ne...-No-No-Yes.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by Canadane
-
10-28-2015, 01:18 PMReaperking386Right into the feels. lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Whiston
-
10-28-2015, 03:09 PMDuelleThis is because of how blocking works. Blocking is in part determined by the shield's size rather than being determined entirely by stats (STR). Shields are also built on a trade-off system (more block value = less block rate and vice versa) instead of set to always grow with ilevel/stats. My guess is that they either wanted to keep the legacy system from 1.0 (itself rooted in the terrible shield design of FFXI) or wanted to ensure PLD didn't have a defensive advantage due to having access to shields.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomad-phx
As for shield variation, that's more on the design team to create shields that look different. Of course, since shield size is tied to block rating and block value, they're sort of cornered into making kite and tower shields. At this point something's gotta give; to get more aesthetic variety in shields you want, it'll have to be the whole "size = block value/rate" bit.
This is connected to my above point. A PLD would have much higher mitigation compared to the other two tanks if they did this without changing something else.Quote:
The 2nd issue is function, every shield should have 4 stats: block strength/block rate, magic deflection/deflection rate. I'm no saying shields should block magic at same %, just that it should be a function of shields.
Assuming they went by your suggestion and change all shields to linearly scale by ilevel with the stats you suggest, a PLD now has a much higher mitigation threshold than a WAR or DRK. Remember that tanks should be equal to each other in damage, mitigation and utility, otherwise you have raids favoring one and tossing the others aside. It might work if they further developed mitigation mechanics for WAR and DRK and tuned the numbers so that a PLD with your suggested shield would be equal to DRK and WAR. I mean, WoW did it by giving bear druids a ton of armor and HP (to make up for a druid's lack of parry and block while in bear form), and gave death knights defensive cooldowns they could chain on top of self heals (Death Strike and Death Pact) and additional parry scaling from STR to make up for their lack of the mitigation warriors and paladins had via shields. The latter was then changed to have active mitigation to make up for the lack of shield blocks with Cataclysm.
Not saying what you want is impossible (because it's certainly possible here), but it would require changes to WAR and DRK. And I agree that shields should at the least help mitigate some part of magic damage.
Seconded. You guys have very short memories if you don't remember the people complaining about how they were gimped because their highest ilevel weapon was a wand/cudgel but didn't have a shield of equal level. That's part of why the devs said "fuck it" and decided to just give BLM and WHM staves.Quote:
Originally Posted by Roegadyn_Bear
The best compromise here would be to entirely remove THM/CNJ from shields and itemize wands/cudgels to have the same stats as two-handed staves. Then it'd be a matter of changing the glamour system to allow a staff to be glamoured to a wand/cudgel and everyone would be happy. -
10-28-2015, 03:54 PMRocheKat
I think the bigger issue is the lack of shield attacks. FFXIV like most games treat shields like a piece of armor instead of a defensive weapon.
-
10-28-2015, 04:27 PMCheraa
You have two Shield Attacks. Thats fine, as Shields have always been a defensive tool and only used offensive if possible. The same way we are using them in FF XIV with stunning the enemy (even if knockdown would fit better) and a direct shield bash.
What I would like to see:
- Shield Bash off GCD. We should be able to use our Stun anytime AND it shouldn't break our combo.
- Shield Swipe buff potency or make it a frontal AOE. -
10-29-2015, 01:13 AMArchaellShield Bash is what makes the paladin unique in comparison to War/Drk. They have it off GCD, Pld has no CD.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheraa
Imo Shield Swipe should be the one off GCD. And pacification a lil bit improved. If I understand it correctly, we are supposed to use Swipe to save combos while waiting for Bash.